What ever happened to Osama (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Well where the fuck are u getting ur information? Have you gone over to iraq?

BTW - before the iraq war one of our teachers had a friend from iraq who used to live in sydney but had been living in iraq for 12 years. She was in sydney again, and she talked to us about the conditions in iraq, she told us that the majority of people would love us to send our troops.

There u go, i've had a 1st hand recount of the situation what've you got?

 

[Sweets]

Ohhh 1 person is a great sample of the entire population. And no I havn't been to Iraq but im not one making bombastic statements about the freedom which is reigning supreme there. Why don't we go spread some of that to Burma?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I was saying i believe that's what will happen, if u wanna say ' I don't see it that way, i feel that a civil war is imminent' or something i might give you a bit more respect.

 

[berghousemaa]

As to the original point of this thread, Osama is in all probability dead. The guy is ancient and needed a dialysis machine to stay alive and he lived in a cave network constantly on the move. Not exactly a conducive environment to getting better.
We haven'y heard from him in an age even though there have been many opportunities. The bloke is dead.

Now onto what the thread has degenerated into. What the fuck is wrong with going into a country to secure oil. It happens to the most valuable and important resource in the world and it is in short supply. Should America let this resource be in the hands of a hostile govt when supply runs really low. God no.

Afghanistan was not invaded for economic reasons, only Iraq was. Afghanistan was invaded in response to 9 11.

My final point is the most important. All this damage you see on the news. Who has caused it, American troops? No. It's the Arab extremist groups that aer killing civilians and destroying the country's infrastructure. And are these people predominantly Iraqi's? No again. they're from other areas of the Mid East who have a vested interest in seeing teh Americans overthrown.

Saddam had roughly 40 opulant palaces, no one knows exactly how many, many he never actually visited. What they don't show on the news is the Yanks giving one of the palaces over to teh Iraqis for schools, orphanages or for medical work. The Iraqi citizens life while it may not immediately be better, is indeed thankful for seeing Saddam overthrown and look can look forward to a time of prosperity if only those bastards would allow the situation to clear.

P.S while it is not directly America's fault for the situation, they could have handled it better. i would have just re installed the old king of Iraq.

 

[Korn]

What happened to Sadam anyway?

WWIII? Australia would be screwed! I am guessing Howard will support his mate Bush and since Australia is way easier to attack than America, I wonder who is going to get blown into little pieces?

In most ww3 scenario it is usually Australia that is the only country not wiped out

 

[Korn]

Hmm, u might be on to something, but wrong path, think opium. Afghanastan b4 the Taliban took power was one of the biggest exports of herion, the taliban stopped herion, and US started it up again. But i dont see anything wrong with that, if ppl are dumb enough to do herion they deserve to die, natural selection, you cant do anything to stop it

 

[Sheehan :)]

As to the original point of this thread, Osama is in all probability dead. The guy is ancient and needed a dialysis machine to stay alive and he lived in a cave network constantly on the move. Not exactly a conducive environment to getting better.
We haven'y heard from him in an age even though there have been many opportunities. The bloke is dead.

Now onto what the thread has degenerated into. What the fuck is wrong with going into a country to secure oil. It happens to the most valuable and important resource in the world and it is in short supply. Should America let this resource be in the hands of a hostile govt when supply runs really low. God no.

Afghanistan was not invaded for economic reasons, only Iraq was. Afghanistan was invaded in response to 9 11.

My final point is the most important. All this damage you see on the news. Who has caused it, American troops? No. It's the Arab extremist groups that aer killing civilians and destroying the country's infrastructure. And are these people predominantly Iraqi's? No again. they're from other areas of the Mid East who have a vested interest in seeing teh Americans overthrown.

Saddam had roughly 40 opulant palaces, no one knows exactly how many, many he never actually visited. What they don't show on the news is the Yanks giving one of the palaces over to teh Iraqis for schools, orphanages or for medical work. The Iraqi citizens life while it may not immediately be better, is indeed thankful for seeing Saddam overthrown and look can look forward to a time of prosperity if only those bastards would allow the situation to clear.

P.S while it is not directly America's fault for the situation, they could have handled it better. i would have just re installed the old king of Iraq.

Firstly starting a war to steal oil from another country is completely wrong and saying that the afghani government is hostile is stupid. the afghani government allowed soldiers into afghanistan if they didn't the UN would have said something (for all the good it does)

Secondly invading afghanisatn( although it wasn't an invasion) because of 9/11 is a stupid thing to say. Are you saying that if a bunch of crazy Aussie gangs bombed the Empire State Building that Americans would "INVADE" Australia looking for the rest of the gang. i think.

the main reasons were for oil and the prejiduces against Muslims.

When Saddam was setting all the oil pipes on fire Bush was like "anyone found trying to light oil pipes on fire will be shot and killed"

politics was just a cover up. THEY NEVER HAD BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS. Although i dont agree with SAddams Dictatorship, i dont think that teh Iraq war was for poiltical reasons................so if you have to choose a side then choose the lesser evil.........i'll leave that up to you

 

[Not-That-Bright]

wtf man? Afghanistan was full of chemical weapons labs... al-quidea training camps... the taliban was a very oppressive government & supported these people :-/

Yes we all know the iraq war was just a big halliburton scam! they're pumping the oil thru a big underground pipeline right to underneath GWB's texas ranch! he's gunna 'discover' it and become rich!

 

[berghousemaa]

Firstly starting a war to steal oil from another country is completely wrong and saying that the afghani government is hostile is stupid. the afghani government allowed soldiers into afghanistan if they didn't the UN would have said something (for all the good it does)

Secondly invading afghanisatn( although it wasn't an invasion) because of 9/11 is a stupid thing to say. Are you saying that if a bunch of crazy Aussie gangs bombed the Empire State Building that Americans would "INVADE" Australia looking for the rest of the gang. i think.

the main reasons were for oil and the prejiduces against Muslims.

When Saddam was setting all the oil pipes on fire Bush was like "anyone found trying to light oil pipes on fire will be shot and killed"

politics was just a cover up. THEY NEVER HAD BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS. Although i dont agree with SAddams Dictatorship, i dont think that teh Iraq war was for poiltical reasons................so if you have to choose a side then choose the lesser evil.........i'll leave that up to you

just wondering if you're an Arab and or Muslim.
If yes then do you think this could have affected your position on the situation.
I have probably more cause to hate terrorists than you do because of personal reasons yet I can look beyond those things and see the situation objectively.
Your arguements are not well supported or argued.

 

[Sheehan :)]

just wondering if you're an Arab and or Muslim.
If yes then do you think this could have affected your position on the situation.
I have probably more cause to hate terrorists than you do because of personal reasons yet I can look beyond those things and see the situation objectively.
Your arguements are not well supported or argued.

Firstly im happy to see that you havnt made an Arab and a Muslim out to be the same thing.. No i am not an Arab but yes i am a Muslim.............i do not support the muslim terrorist (there are more types of terrorists) as they are extremists who ignore teh vey core of our religion (though shalt no take life)........i do not see them as real muslims....BUT i do not support the American governments ways to exterminate innocent people through senseless wars

 

[Korn]

Firstly starting a war to steal oil from another country is completely wrong and saying that the afghani government is hostile is stupid. the afghani government allowed soldiers into afghanistan if they didn't the UN would have said something (for all the good it does)

Secondly invading afghanisatn( although it wasn't an invasion) because of 9/11 is a stupid thing to say. Are you saying that if a bunch of crazy Aussie gangs bombed the Empire State Building that Americans would "INVADE" Australia looking for the rest of the gang. i think.

the main reasons were for oil and the prejiduces against Muslims.

When Saddam was setting all the oil pipes on fire Bush was like "anyone found trying to light oil pipes on fire will be shot and killed"

politics was just a cover up. THEY NEVER HAD BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS. Although i dont agree with SAddams Dictatorship, i dont think that teh Iraq war was for poiltical reasons................so if you have to choose a side then choose the lesser evil.........i'll leave that up to you

They did have wmd, american knows they did, cause it was america that supplied them with the wmd, its just that Saddam was able to sell them before he was captured, thats why he was found with all that cash.

 

[Sheehan :)]

They did have wmd, american knows they did, cause it was america that supplied them with the wmd, its just that Saddam was able to sell them before he was captured, thats why he was found with all that cash.

yuo have a point there........but it was americas own fault for supplying them the weapons of mass destruction.

AMERICA BELIEVES TEHY MUST "REPENT THEIR SINS"

They trained OSAMA now they go after OSAMA
They gave Iraq WMD to fight Iran now they want it back
They gave Iran WMD to fight Iraq now they want it back

i mean the US government sounds like a crazy dilluded human who thinks he or she is an angel sent by god to make the human race pay for their sins

pfffft

 

[somechick]

wtf man? Afghanistan was full of chemical weapons labs... al-quidea training camps... the taliban was a very oppressive government & supported these people :-/

Yes we all know the iraq war was just a big halliburton scam! they're pumping the oil thru a big underground pipeline right to underneath GWB's texas ranch! he's gunna 'discover' it and become rich!

Yes your SO right!! omg everyone! over here! we have a real expert here.
firtly afghanistan harldy has an ecomony in the first place to have any NUCLEAR weapons. secondly, Labs? are you insane! the al qeuda trained in bushes and friggen backyards. their weapons, which are supposedly top notch, are what 15 years old? and where did they get it from? the good ol americans who always are here to save the day according to you. Yes they have done a really good job havent they? killed thousands of people, destoryed families, and the meander and meager possessions they had have been robbed.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

oh i'm not saying they were sophisticated, but if u honestly think al-quidea wasn't experimenting with different chemicals in afghanistan u live in a fantasy world.

They've gotten rid of saddam, i'd say in the future most iraqi's will say they're glad it happened, afghanistan still has some trouble, but is definately a much nicer place without the taliban.

15 years old isn't that old really for a devestating weapon lol

More than likely they were supplied their weapons by the reagan administration in order to weaken the soviets and lead to their eventual collapse, while you may argue with it in retrospect it is perhaps one of the many things regan did to end the cold war.

 

[somechick]

oh i'm not saying they were sophisticated, but if u honestly think al-quidea wasn't experimenting with different chemicals in afghanistan u live in a fantasy world.

They've gotten rid of saddam, i'd say in the future most iraqi's will say they're glad it happened, afghanistan still has some trouble, but is definately a much nicer place without the taliban.

15 years old isn't that old really for a devestating weapon lol

More than likely they were supplied their weapons by the reagan administration in order to weaken the soviets and lead to their eventual collapse, while you may argue with it in retrospect it is perhaps one of the many things regan did to end the cold war.

And have you even BEEN to Afghanistan? "A Much nicer" place consists of increased refugee camps does it? More people to turn to surrounding nations for help and being shunned? What little they had has been taken away from them now.
Dont think that a revenge war will automatically turn aghanistan into a first world country, your living in a fantasy world. The only reason why the afghans defeated the soviet invasion, was because the terrain was too difficult for the soviets to take. Guerilla soldiers conquered because they knew their own land. Their guns were and are measly. I dont know, but from your couch watching tv maybe you've had a glimpse of their weapons. A few shoddy rockets, dirt ridden rusty tanks are real state of the art arent they?

I dont get it. It is because of the intervention of the western world that afghanistan is in the state that its in. In the 70's Afghanistan was a near-developed country. There were roads and airports etc. And now look at it. The country is being used by maniacs as a harbour for their own selfish interests, and im not just talking about al queda.
Im sick to death of people saying that "oh afghanistan is in such a better state now you know" WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW?! Prior to sept 11 nobody even knew WHAT afghanistan was, let alone where it is. So please. And now they are all supposedly terrorists even tho they dont even have two cents to rub together.
Where was the Save the day Americans when the Taliban came to rule with their 10 year facist doctrines? and if it really is terrorism that is being fought, why wasnt/isnt there anything being done for the african countries who are being ruled by dictators like saddam. or at bali?

 

[berghousemaa]

somechick, the Americans will wage war with someone only if it suits them.

But it'd be fair and sensible if they only waged war when it Didn't Suit Them.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Somechick, yes, Afghanistan is a much better place now despite how much it could still improve.
"What little they had has been taken away from them now", what do you have to support this statement? by all accounts i've heard most peoples lives are better.

"Dont think that a revenge war will automatically turn aghanistan into a first world country, your living in a fantasy world"
Did I say afghanistan has turned into a perfect country or even a modern industrialised country? No. I simply said it's better than it was, if you want i'll post up evidence of this.

"The only reason why the afghans defeated the soviet invasion, was because the terrain was too difficult for the soviets to take. Guerilla soldiers conquered because they knew their own land. Their guns were and are measly. I dont know, but from your couch watching tv maybe you've had a glimpse of their weapons. A few shoddy rockets, dirt ridden rusty tanks are real state of the art arent they"
In the 1980's their weapons were sufficient, kalishnakoffs were being used by the soviets too.. I think you'd find that the funding they recieved from the regan government was what kept them going.

"I dont get it. It is because of the intervention of the western world that afghanistan is in the state that its in. In the 70's Afghanistan was a near-developed country. There were roads and airports etc. And now look at it. The country is being used by maniacs as a harbour for their own selfish interests, and im not just talking about al queda." That is because the soviets tried to invade.. america helped them defend themselves while also hurting the soviets, it was a smart strategy.

"WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW?! Prior to sept 11 nobody even knew WHAT afghanistan was, let alone where it is. So please. And now they are all supposedly terrorists even tho they dont even have two cents to rub together." I'm sick of people lecturing me because they assume my ignorance, i learnt about afghanistan before september 11th as in year 8 we learnt about the cold war.

"Where was the Save the day Americans when the Taliban came to rule with their 10 year facist doctrines? and if it really is terrorism that is being fought, why wasnt/isnt there anything being done for the african countries who are being ruled by dictators like saddam. or at bali?"
Where was the UN, France, Germany, Russia? The Taliban weren't facists

As for Africa, I agree that more should be done in africa... for alot of the problems you can't just send money, it requires the co-operation of the Europeans and it will be very costly. There are alot of warlords all over africa, and right now it would be best to focus on the middle-east which would be much easier to fix in comparison with africa. We can't fix everything at once, so you have to prioritise.

What did you want them to do after bali? Invade indonesia even tho indonesia didn't support the terrorists?

 

[Korn]

And have you even BEEN to Afghanistan? "A Much nicer" place consists of increased refugee camps does it? More people to turn to surrounding nations for help and being shunned? What little they had has been taken away from them now.
Dont think that a revenge war will automatically turn aghanistan into a first world country, your living in a fantasy world. The only reason why the afghans defeated the soviet invasion, was because the terrain was too difficult for the soviets to take. Guerilla soldiers conquered because they knew their own land. Their guns were and are measly. I dont know, but from your couch watching tv maybe you've had a glimpse of their weapons. A few shoddy rockets, dirt ridden rusty tanks are real state of the art arent they?

I dont get it. It is because of the intervention of the western world that afghanistan is in the state that its in. In the 70's Afghanistan was a near-developed country. There were roads and airports etc. And now look at it. The country is being used by maniacs as a harbour for their own selfish interests, and im not just talking about al queda.
Im sick to death of people saying that "oh afghanistan is in such a better state now you know" WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW?! Prior to sept 11 nobody even knew WHAT afghanistan was, let alone where it is. So please. And now they are all supposedly terrorists even tho they dont even have two cents to rub together.
Where was the Save the day Americans when the Taliban came to rule with their 10 year facist doctrines? and if it really is terrorism that is being fought, why wasnt/isnt there anything being done for the african countries who are being ruled by dictators like saddam. or at bali?

I disagree with ur statement that noone knew where Afganastan was, just cause u didnt doesnt mean no one did, the Taliban were destroying thousand year old Buddhist statues just because they were not Muslim. At the time there was outrage at this but it wasnt publisised much. Now the ppl of Afgan women can go to school, and not treated as slaves as they were under Taliban rule, and there is now more freedom to practice other religions and choice in clothes and men not compelled to have beards

 

[somechick]

I disagree with ur statement that noone knew where Afganastan was, just cause u didnt doesnt mean no one did, the Taliban were destroying thousand year old Buddhist statues just because they were not Muslim. At the time there was outrage at this but it wasnt publisised much. Now the ppl of Afgan women can go to school, and not treated as slaves as they were under Taliban rule, and there is now more freedom to practice other religions and choice in clothes and men not compelled to have beards

lol, just cos i didn't know where it was?
Everyone who asked me where i was from would be like "oh, where is that" jokingly like 'oh it doesnt even matter'. Im just really sick of all this negative attention on afghanistan when it was actually needed BEFORE sept 11. Now everyone thinks they're king shit because they watch 60 minutes and four corners and know everything now.
And thats exactly what im saying. the taliban were shits. I never said they were good as you are trying to make out. Yes, there are things that are better but you cant heal deep wounds. all those people who died, lost their houses and lives. And im talking from experience here and unless you've witnessed that you cant say 'yes its better'.
You cannot assume that a war will automatically change a culture, it takes permament occupation. The taliban will probably come back to power because of the lack of education there. And when they do, who will help the countrymen? Nobody. By then it will probably be back to "sorry, where is that 'afghanistan' again?"

 

[firehose]

lol, just cos i didn't know where it was?
Everyone who asked me where i was from would be like "oh, where is that" jokingly like 'oh it doesnt even matter'. Im just really sick of all this negative attention on afghanistan when it was actually needed BEFORE sept 11. Now everyone thinks they're king shit because they watch 60 minutes and four corners and know everything now.
And thats exactly what im saying. the taliban were shits. I never said they were good as you are trying to make out. Yes, there are things that are better but you cant heal deep wounds. all those people who died, lost their houses and lives. And im talking from experience here and unless you've witnessed that you cant say 'yes its better'.
You cannot assume that a war will automatically change a culture, it takes permament occupation. The taliban will probably come back to power because of the lack of education there. And when they do, who will help the countrymen? Nobody. By then it will probably be back to "sorry, where is that 'afghanistan' again?"

Chances are most Afghans would rather live under the current-government than to go back to the Taliban. Saying that the Taliban will come back into power is extremely pessimistic, and as fucked as u think Afghanistan might be there will not be any power shift back to that. Note that many people died under the Taliban regime too, and it's not like they ever tried to improve people's living standards. Now with them out of power and forced into guerilla mode Afghanistan actually has a chance. A tough chance, but still a chance.