Who is going to vote liberal? (2 Viewers)

[kokodamonkey]

WE cant have madmen like saddamn around.. WE did the right think. WE needed to go back n finish what we started 16yrs ago.

 

[mzduxx2006]

This is a serious question. Of those of you who have just turned 18 in the past year or two, how many are actually going to support the liberal government in the next election? I'm just curious, because I only actually know two people who are liberal supporters (unless the others are too afraid to admit it) - and I'm pretty sure its just because their parents raised them like that.

Now, Im not trying to say that Kevin Rudd is the second coming of Jesus, or that John Howard is the antichrist. In fact, both parties have noticable flaws. But, I just cannot see why anyone would even consider voting for the cohalition, who have - dispite "experience" messed with the economy, declared in favour of an abominable war, passed disgraceful workplace and terrorism legislation, and even blatently lied to the Australian people (I give you AWB, WMDs in Iraq, Children overboard, GST....).

So, seriously. Why would you consider voting for Johnny?

I'll be voting liberal. mainly because they are the better party in my opinion. i mean look at our economy...really REALLY strong atm with our aussie dollar buying almost one american dollar. everyone is so scared about the "IR" laws but in reality they arent bad at all. Howard helps smaller businesses who struggle to cope which in turn creates and overall sustains a better economy....which is why australia has like one of the best living standards and educational institutions in the world. so this is why i am voting liberal.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

what? We have absolutely shite educational institutions and those liberals have only made them worse

 

[Azamakumar]

what? We have absolutely shite educational institutions and those liberals have only made them worse

.

The great changes to the education system have come under Labor.

Come to think of it, that should be the only thing I really care about, but haven't given it a thought. :/

 

[illmatic]

I don't see anything wrong with the GST. I cannot see any negative impact it has had. So he said we'd never get the GST - that was what, 2 elections ago? Let go.

2 elections ago? who gives a shit, thats not the point. the point is, he was making a promise, which he broke within a relatively short period. and nothing negative? umm.. maybe not to you, but it isn't a very fair tax system. things like food etc are items which everyone needs - rich or poor. tho the poor pay proportionately more tax on it. this creates a gap. an unfair gap.

God forbid the cost of housing go up. No fault of the government. Try blaming the imbeciles that list their houses for excessive amounts, then blame the idiots that buy these houses for excessive amounts. If people didn't have this ridiculous idea of what dream house they're 'entitled to', people wouldn't be in a shit situation.



Rudd and his cronies can't even seem to agree which policies they're going to adopt. Basically they're adopting everything the Government has, Rudd just throws in some soundbyte and the word 'revolution' and suddenly people think they're new ideas.

Umm.. actually the Government's Fiscal policy has a lot to do with what level interest rates will be sitting at. True, the government doesn't have a completely black and white DIRECT influence over it, but what they do can ultimately lead to rate rises, or falls.

 

[Iron]

2 elections ago? who gives a shit, thats not the point. the point is, he was making a promise, which he broke within a relatively short period. .

That's not fair. He opened the GST up for public debate a year before 98, making that election a referendum on it. Although he suffered serious backlash for it, he won. That was mandate enough.

 

[jb_nc]

WE cant have madmen like saddamn around.. WE did the right think. WE needed to go back n finish what we started 16yrs ago.

George H W Bush said that if the America coalition marched onto Baghdad during Desert Storm, they'd still be there to this day.

And I have no doubt he would have been right.

 

[kokodamonkey]

what? We have absolutely shite educational institutions and those liberals have only made them worse

Why yes because we've had liberal state governments in nsw for the past 10years so they have obviously been responsibile for the shit state educational institutions.. *COUGH COUGH*

Blaming howard for the hospital system, is like blaming Howard for how the transport systems are run in New Zealand, its simply NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY AND NOT HIS JURISDICTION.

2 elections ago? who gives a shit, thats not the point. the point is, he was making a promise, which he broke within a relatively short period. and nothing negative? umm.. maybe not to you, but it isn't a very fair tax system. things like food etc are items which everyone needs - rich or poor. tho the poor pay proportionately more tax on it. this creates a gap. an unfair gap.

Excuse me, food prices should be proprotional to your income? youve got to be kidding me. Its just like those that thing speeding fines should be different according to your wealth... No im sorry this twisted view has to stop here buddy. IF your buying a cake, it should be the same price regardless of your income because its the same thing. Just like a speeding fine. doesnt matter how much money your worth, you still have comitted THE SAME CRIME.

Agreed. But the false pretences used to go into Iraq were wrong, not to mention it was done illegally (UN refusal to back it). And Howard was involved in the lie, as he tried to sell it to Australia.

But, why did we stop at Hussien? What about Gudaffe (Libya)? What about the leadership in Sudan? The list goes on and on. It's just disappointing that they don't have oil...Why not Iran!? They have OIL and a set of "madmen" running the country. Maybe think through your argument a little longer.

Who said we've stopped with Hussein? We are not china. we do not have an unlimited amount of soldiers. (my stats/numbers may not be accurate but you'll get the following pictures) Apparantly with troop rotations, they are supposed to spend like 6months in the field, then have 12months break back home etc.. Now they are so far stretched they are spending 12-18 months in the field and only getting like 6month back at home.. So you cant exactly say the usa has plenty of troops to go around for the moment... THere was a good report/article in the economist last week i think that talked about the future of warfare and stuff.. THe issue was they always thought and bet their money on developing fancy weapons and downsizing the amount of on the ground footsoldiers, which obviously you need in this kind of war on terror..

I Think the next real issue has to be fixing Darfur and iran. But lets just try and fix afganistan and Iraq first. We should NOT PULL OUT untill they can take care of themselves, otherwise they will end up worse then when we went in there, and all those soldiers deaths will have been for nothing.

George H W Bush said that if the America coalition marched onto Baghdad during Desert Storm, they'd still be there to this day.

And I have no doubt he would have been right.

Well if i remember correctly, and i would have only been about 2years old at the time, THat the un mandate was only to fix the issues with them going into kuwait, they didnt have a mandate to go into iraq and get rid of hussein. Plus they believed that after what has happened there would be so much instability in his regime that it would be likely to topple in a few weeks.. Looks like they got that idea wrong..

 

[Iron]

Honestly, the federation is a farce. States are nothing but playthings for the Cth who have basically monopolised the tax system.
Starve opposition states, blame the party, then heroically fix it yourself (if you feel like it). It's a shambles.

 

[Magicana]

Excuse me, food prices should be proprotional to your income? youve got to be kidding me. Its just like those that thing speeding fines should be different according to your wealth... No im sorry this twisted view has to stop here buddy. IF your buying a cake, it should be the same price regardless of your income because its the same thing. Just like a speeding fine. doesnt matter how much money your worth, you still have comitted THE SAME CRIME.

Whole idea behind increasing the speed fines for the rich and not the poor is because, lets say, you have someone on 200 a week and 2000 a week. Say the speeding fine is $150. Fine for person A is 75% of the weekly income. Person B loses only 7.5%. Thus the law is damaging person A more than B. I dont get his statement that the poor pay more tax on food though

Who said we've stopped with Hussein? We are not china. we do not have an unlimited amount of soldiers. (my stats/numbers may not be accurate but you'll get the following pictures) Apparantly with troop rotations, they are supposed to spend like 6months in the field, then have 12months break back home etc.. Now they are so far stretched they are spending 12-18 months in the field and only getting like 6month back at home.. So you cant exactly say the usa has plenty of troops to go around for the moment... THere was a good report/article in the economist last week i think that talked about the future of warfare and stuff.. THe issue was they always thought and bet their money on developing fancy weapons and downsizing the amount of on the ground footsoldiers, which obviously you need in this kind of war on terror..

War on Terror? What war? Who are the combatants? Why are they attacking us? Is there a Casus Belli?

I Think the next real issue has to be fixing Darfur and iran. But lets just try and fix afganistan and Iraq first. We should NOT PULL OUT untill they can take care of themselves, otherwise they will end up worse then when we went in there, and all those soldiers deaths will have been for nothing.

What is in Iran that needs fixing? Ooo, they might be developing Nuclear power. Big deal. They aren't going to develop nuclear weapons. My proof for it? The REAL head of Iran, the Ayatollah, issued a fatwah (A non-binding one) condemning nuclear weapons. Sounds like they will develop them .

As for pulling out, that actually is the best way to stop the war on terror. Get out of Iraq, get out of Kuwait, get out of all those countries, pack up the military bases and stay at home. Then the Arab's dont actually want to kill Americans, etc.

 

[kokodamonkey]

Whole idea behind increasing the speed fines for the rich and not the poor is because, lets say, you have someone on 200 a week and 2000 a week. Say the speeding fine is $150. Fine for person A is 75% of the weekly income. Person B loses only 7.5%. Thus the law is damaging person A more than B. I dont get his statement that the poor pay more tax on food though

Because why should person B have to fork out more money when they committed the same crime... You and i both do the wrong thing right lets see we each shoot the same guy killing him i.e. he died from the 2bullets. and they go oh KokoDamonkey your so much wealthier then Magicana, so therefore you should go to jail for 50years and magicana should only go for 5years, because it'll cost you more.. i mean come on it get real.

War on Terror? What war? Who are the combatants? Why are they attacking us? Is there a Casus Belli?

911. and the fact they are so violent in nature. they arnt so kind and peaceful loving like we are:burn:

What is in Iran that needs fixing? Ooo, they might be developing Nuclear power. Big deal. They aren't going to develop nuclear weapons. My proof for it? The REAL head of Iran, the Ayatollah, issued a fatwah (A non-binding one) condemning nuclear weapons. Sounds like they will develop them .

oh maybe the fact its a dictatorship? maybe thats what needs fixing? Also iran has threatened to wipe israel off the map.

As for pulling out, that actually is the best way to stop the war on terror. Get out of Iraq, get out of Kuwait, get out of all those countries, pack up the military bases and stay at home. Then the Arab's dont actually want to kill Americans, etc.

If we pull out the whole place will officially fall into total chaos,anarchy and civil war.. which it already half is. dont wan the whole way!

 

[Mevelyn2551]

Because why should person B have to fork out more money when they committed the same crime... You and i both do the wrong thing right lets see we each shoot the same guy killing him i.e. he died from the 2bullets. and they go oh KokoDamonkey your so much wealthier then Magicana, so therefore you should go to jail for 50years and magicana should only go for 5years, because it'll cost you more.. i mean come on it get real.
ady half is. dont wan the whole way!

But we arent talking about murder here...

Someone on an income of $100000 doesnt feel a parking fine. Its less painful than a slap on the wrist. They could go out and speed all they like, thinking to themselves "Its OK - what, even if they catch me its only $150!". I mean come on, do you even listen to what you are saying - it's practically giving the wealthy the ability to commit crimes indiscriminately because they can afford the consequences far easier than the poor can.

 

[Mevelyn2551]

Hit that one on the head. It was just ignorance on Howard's part.

What a relief. Hear that everyone - John Howard is not a liar, he's only ignorant. I guess that means its ok to vote for him.

Who would you rather have: a liar as a leader, or an ignorant leader?

 

[Azamakumar]

What a relief. Hear that everyone - John Howard is not a liar, he's only ignorant. I guess that means its ok to vote for him.

Who would you rather have: a liar as a leader, or an ignorant leader?

That's only one instance, it proves he was misled, not going into an unwinnable war which would destroy his reputation for shits and giggles.

 

[Mevelyn2551]

I'll be voting liberal. mainly because they are the better party in my opinion. i mean look at our economy...really REALLY strong atm with our aussie dollar buying almost one american dollar. everyone is so scared about the "IR" laws but in reality they arent bad at all. Howard helps smaller businesses who struggle to cope which in turn creates and overall sustains a better economy....which is why australia has like one of the best living standards and educational institutions in the world. so this is why i am voting liberal.

You cant use the $US to measure our economy's success. THe reason it is so high is because the $US is going down as well as the $A going up. That being said, I wasnt attacking your claim that the economy is growing, just the statistic you used to measure it.

What makes the economy grow?
Increased production - I give you the resources boom. Would a Labor government refuse to touch these resources? No.

Cheaper resources (ie Labour) - Yes, WorkChoices contributes to economic growth. That is an undeniable fact. Here is a handy list of other things WorkChoices contributes to, that in my opinion, outweigh the measly fraction of a percentage it contributes to our economic growth. No amount of workplace reform will make us more competitive with any asian country.

1. Income inequality. People within the same workplace working side by side can earn different wages. Income inequality also contributes to increased crime rates, decreased worker morale, and breakdowns in industrial relations.

2. Decreased worker rights. Sure, I'll probably get a dozen replies saying "It is the right of an employee to trade sick leave for increased pay if they want!". But if they dont want to? What if they have no option but to give up their rights in order to even be considered for the job?

3. Industrial Action: True, strikes decrease production. Thats the whole idea. Its the only leverage employees have - the whole "united we stand" deal. If employees cant campaign for wage increases - such as the ones neccesary to keep up with rising prices - employers sure as hell arent just going to hand out raises like peanuts. Which wages may well be paid in.

4. Social stuff: Looking from a souless calculating economic perspective is often the only one we ever consider. People are working more hours - an 18% increase in working hours since 1960. And 53% of middle income earners often dont recieve overtime pay. WorkChoices only serves to make this worse. When people spend more time working than vegging out or with their familys we see: Mounting health problems (like stress, repetitive strain disorder, depression), family breakdowns (eg increasing divorce rates), and increased suicide rates. Economics doesnt just deal with the flows of money. Sometimes you should take a step back and look at how the economy influences people rather than how people influence the economy. "Life's not about whats better than..." (Sorry, stuck in my head. Stupid hippy. Get a haircut)

And I havent even touched on living standards or education (HECS. Bastards.). And helping small buisinesses?

Thats a brief overview of only one out of hundreds of reasons why you shouldnt vote Liberal.

 

[Mevelyn2551]

That's only one instance, it proves he was misled, not going into an unwinnable war which would destroy his reputation for shits and giggles.

Isnt it the duty of the government to make sure the information they are given is accurate? To make sure that they arent putting the public and their country at risk over a lack of knowledge? And I hate to say it, but ... one instance? Come on. I already used these in an earlier post, but I found some more and you may have missed the original.

"I haven't seen [the children overboard video], I've been told about it by Mr Reith. I've got a lot of things to see at the present time."
John Howard, 26 October, 2002
Was John Howard lying? Or was he truly ignorant? Both are indefensible. If he was ignorant, why didnt he watched the video to get the truth?

"There is no way a GST will ever be part of our policy. Never, ever. It's dead, it was killed by the voters in the last election"
John Howard media conference, Tweed Heads Civic Centre, May 1995
Lying, pure and simple.

"The GST will not increase the price of petrol for the ordinary motorist"
John Howard address to the Nation, 13 August 1998
He said this based on the promise to cut fuel excise, decreasing the price by 6.7 cents/litre. Thanks Johnny. Except GST increased the price by 8.2 cents. I'm no genius, but it seems to me that the GST increased prices by 1.5 cents/litre for the "ordinary motorist". Ignorant, or Liar?

"A coalition government will slash the burden of paperwork and regulations on small buisinesses with our aim being a 50% reduction in our first term"
Liberal Party Press Release 1996
The tax act is not 10000 pages long. Small buisinesses do 4 BAS statements a year. Tax pack instructions increased to 350 pages. The individual tax return size grew from 6 pages in 1996 to 12 after GST. Lying, or ignorant of his own tax policy?

"We had clear intelligence assessments that Iraq had a weapons of mass destruction capapbility"
John Howard, 3 October, 2003
Really?
"Australian intelligence agencies made it clear to the Government all along that Iraq did not have a massive WMD program."
Andrew Wilkie, Senior Intelligence Officer
He wasn't ignorant then. So that means he was lying.
It is also worth mentioning that Wilkie resigned on March 23 2003 claiming that John fabricated material for his case against Saddam.

"I promise to maintain the current level of real expenditure on Austudy"
Austudy cut be $528 million over his first term. Lying

"The coalition will maintain the level of Commonwealth funding to universities in terms of oporating grants"
Cut by $623 million. Lying

"Medicare will be reatined in its entirety"
Dental plan abolished. Co-payment of pharmaceutical benefeit scheme increased. $800 million cut for public hospitals. May have decreased some embarrasment in recent years? Lying

"The boat did not sink in Australian Waters"
Johnny regarding the SIEV X Assylum seeker boat.
But it did. And as a result 65 men, 142 women, and 146 children drowned. Ignorant, or lying?

I think that is enough for now. Only one instance of John Howard being ignorant of what was really going on (I havent even mentioned AWB in the above list!)? Or only one instance when he could have been lying? Come on.

 

[Mevelyn2551]

I voted early as the polling centre was next door and i voted for libs to piss you off and I'm in a marginal seat hahahahahahahaha

Im not surprised the only reason you could think of to vote for them was to piss me off. You must have been racking your limited brains for hours trying to think of some reason. Shame it wasnt one that didnt make you look like an immature baby who should have their hands cut off to prevent you voting out of spite.

 

[hunter1]

Im not surprised the only reason you could think of to vote for them was to piss me off. You must have been racking your limited brains for hours trying to think of some reason. Shame it wasnt one that didnt make you look like an immature baby who should have their hands cut off to prevent you voting out of spite.

There is no need to attack someone for voting for the good guys, anyway if you want a good economy vote Coalition people

 

[Mevelyn2551]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, my plan worked!

I dont waste so much time in politics, i like to spend time with women

But thats ok

She will love to have your babies if you can beat the competition

Btw fuck off and go to USYD so you can do arts and stay the fuck away from me, trust me ill deck you at uni

Ask jemsta

1. Plan?

2. What does USYD have to do with anything? And why would want to go there? And why the hell would I want to go anywhere near you?

3. Sorry Liberal guys, but I'm afraid you're stuck with him. See, not all the maniacs vote labor.

Please, post something worth reading. You're just embarrasing yourself.

 

[Mevelyn2551]

There is no need to attack someone for voting for the good guys, anyway if you want a good economy vote Coalition people

I am not attacking him for voting coalition. I am attacking him for his reasons. If he could at least use some half-valid reason like all the other liberal supporters on here who can at least provide some engaging arguement and reasons, then I wouldnt have a problem.

But using the electoral sysem as a means for spite against someone you dont even know, and most certainly never will know, who you read posts by on the internet - come on. What kind of excuse is that for voting for someone?

I think that this is one case where I agree with iamsickofyr12. Maybe some people should be kept from voting.

Also, this is the part where you are supposed to provide some arguements in favor of the coalition. Not condone inane, internet polluting drivel