dp624 said:
So someone with a large amount of time and money might be able to do this? It would be monumental in allowing for the accuracy of predictions and knowledge.
Yes, it is possible. And yes, it would be monumental, if only because the Board has stoically resisted it for eight consecutive years now.
dp624 said:
Do you think that, personally, the Board would win such a case? Lol, we should have Bored of Studies vs Board of Studies, 2009
I think it depends on the way in which the case is presented and the particular tribunal member who is hearing it.
I am definitely of the opinion that a very strong case could be mounted.
lyounamu said:
Why not do that? That's a very good suggestion.
I mean, we can chip in some money and do some case going.
youngminii said:
Yeah let's hire Lazarus as our lawyer
Unfortunately it's not that easy.
While I have been admitted as a lawyer, I can't practise law for a fee until July (when I return to my firm and they pay for my practising certificate), and even then I can't represent people in court unless they're clients of the firm.
Tribunals are different though, and pretty much anyone can appear before them.
So while I can run a case before the tribunal, I can't accept any money.
lyounamu said:
But I am being serious. We need to know. I mean, specifically, I really want to know the Truth.
I am being thrown all these figures by teachers who don't know a thing about HSC. And I am frustrated with most people at my school who go like: I cannot get 90 UAI because I need to get 90 in all my subjects OR maths is scaled up (without really knowing what scaling means).
Or they also go like 50% in 4 unit maths gets you 90 because it's scaled up. Hell no!
It is extremely frustrating, I agree.
Even with all of our efforts - with SAM, with the forums, with constant explanations being posted - we still get the same questions year after year.
Having said that, I have noticed a general improvement in the level of understanding, at least with respect to forum members. It is apparent that there are some people out there who are reading the stickied threads and the past explanations. We have more people helping out by answering scaling questions now (and more importantly by answering them correctly) than we've ever had before - people like you guys.
There are plenty of teachers who don't have any idea as well. Not all of them, certainly, there are pockets who know what's going on - particularly at schools like JRAHS and the others near the top of the usual (and questionable) league tables. But at your ordinary small to medium school there seems to be only one teacher who even looks at the scaling reports and even then they don't always have the full picture.
Disclosing raw marks won't automatically fix this. But allowing students to see how their marks are changed coupled with an honest explanation as to how that change occurs can only result in enlightenment.
I have often thought that the Board could have saved both themselves and everyone else a lot of time and money by investing in a system which discloses the marks in a way that is satisfactory to them - with comprehensive explanations which focus on increasing students' understanding etc - rather than taking the easy approach and fighting to keep it all secret.
dp624 said:
Yeah, so I wonder what Lazarus thinks on all this... hopefully yes =D
I am going to create a new forum and invite you to discuss a few issues in it.
If anyone else is interested - and by interested I mean passionate about the idea and very much in favour of helping out - send me a PM and I'll invite you too.
shakky15 said:
i dont think bos really cares tbh
wat about the scripts themselves?? i called and asked if i could get mine back today, and the lady gave me a flat 'unfortunately, no.'
i thought we could at least get the scripts back as they dont have marks on em?
Unfortunately with technical queries you can't always rely on a generalist officer to give you the correct answer.
If you called back and spoke to someone else there's a real chance you could receive a different response.
I remember phoning the Board back in 2003 before I originally applied for my raw marks to see whether there were any existing procedures for obtaining them. The response was - "Oh, no, we can't give you those.. it's against the Education Act". But there was and is no prohibition on the disclosure of a student's marks to that student. Just a deeply embedded culture of secrecy and non-disclosure - to the extent that people seem to have forgotten why things were being kept secret in the first place.
To answer your question - despite what they said, if you submit the FOI application, you should get your scripts. You could also try calling the FOI Coordinator directly - there's a number on the
Board's website (scroll down).
lyounamu said:
It just seems to me BOS is waiting upon a call from some massive group to challenge it. So why not?
This sort of attempt was made in 2006. A fellow named Hugh Parsonage put out a call for anyone who wanted their raw HSC marks. Fifty students signed up and contributed money (between $5 and $15) to fund the application fees and an appeal to the tribunal etc.
Unfortunately it ended up failing on a very technical point that had nothing to do with whether the marks should be released. So it all fell in a heap. Hugh referred the matter to the NSW Ombudsman and his local MP and in April 2008 the Ombudsman announced that he would be conducting a full-scale review of all FOI applications received by the Board since 2001 and how it had handled them. That report is pending. (You can see the tribunal decision
here).
Of course, that doesn't prevent another group from trying again.