Would you have an abortion? (2 Viewers)

[ur_inner_child]

I don't see your argument as having any more of a base than mine.

i dont have an argument, in case you cant actually see that im merely pointing out a flaw, or asking whether i have misunderstood. do you normally assume so much when you're in discussion?

Killing animals for food is irrelivant to this debate.

guess what , you shouldve said that before, otherwise i wouldnt have picked it out. I personally feel you should've left as that single statement - irrelevant, where i would wholeheartedly agree with you.

the idea of "intellectualism" in relation to murder should never occur. otherwise it would open doors to irrelevant debate.

 

[ur_inner_child]

certain species of duck (i watched a doco) kill their own ducklings when there are far too many to look after, after considering the amount of food available too.

logical yes. don't argue with me about finance and shit, i see the link with my statement above about duckings. im not prepared to link ducks with human abortion. but yes, it happens in the animal kingdom.

 

[Ranger Stacie]

im just going to throw something that might sound really stupid out there but i think its a valid point, in a super simplistic sense.
we all have different values and beliefs, we come from different societies and religions, have different experiences and hold different things to be true. if you're anti-abortion, then that's you're thing, so's being pro-choice. its like people won't ban a religion because they think its wrong or selfish or stupid, we hold it as a choice that an individual can make because of their convictions or family belief or experiences or whatever.
now, if a woman is carrying a child which she doesnt wish to keep, or if she's got medical issues or whatever, who's to take the choice to have an abortion away from her? what right do people have to tell her what she's doing is totally wrong when its only totally wrong for them and not for her? it should be the informed choice of a woman who recieves all the facts, has a bit of time to herself to think it over and then is free to carry on with whatever course of action she chooses.

?

yes we have different values and beliefs. You saying 'who has the right to take away choice- the woman SHOULD have that choice' is YOUR opinion. My opinion is that women have the choice to not get pregnant. If they get pregnant, they have a responsibility.
What about the choice of the infant? Why don't they get a choice? how is it fair that they arent even considered the right to be alive, because their mother was irresponsible?

 

[YBK]

i dont have an argument, in case you cant actually see that im merely pointing out a flaw, or asking whether i have misunderstood. do you normally assume so much when you're in discussion?

Oh okay. Well I thought I read some posts by you earlier outlining your position, but sorry, forget about it.

guess what , you shouldve said that before, otherwise i wouldnt have picked it out. i agree with this, but i did not agree with the "intellectual" statment. just admit that it was a crappy rebuttal. its okay to take it back. this one you have now is much better.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said that: "Animals are not intellectual as us." which is directly related the survival of the fittest. But I can see how it didn't make as much sense as my latter statement since I did not expand upon it.

 

[7.62 BOS]

porndwarfs by virtue of their size have small dicks and look like pigs.

 

[azzie]

Stacie, when i was talking about black market abortions i was refering to them in the context of "if abortion was illigal" In such a case, the women would have no choice but to undgergo this kind of procedure if they wanted an abortion. Not all pregnancies are "woops, shouldnt have done that!" Sometimes people find themselves in the situation that they are pregnant due to the failure of contraception- you can't dismiss these women as simply stupid. They have a right to do what they wish with their pregnancy because it is their baby.
However, I do see the arguement on the other side. I'm not sure if I'm dandy with a child being aborted in the middle or beyond of the second trimester. I think that if the woman is over 4 and a half months pregnant, she should have the child and adopt it if she doesnt want to keep it, unless there are special circumstance in which the childs or mothers welfare are in danger, or the life of the mother is in danger. I just beleieve that these choices can't be made by one person. Sure you might say you're anti abortion today, but what if tomorrow you fall pregnant and after being put in that situation, you find that you want an abortion? One person cannot decide this for all women. I think every abortion should be looked at on a case by case basis, and thats why this arguement will never end... because there is no right and wrong answer.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Stacie, when i was talking about black market abortions i was refering to them in the context of "if abortion was illigal" In such a case, the women would have no choice but to undgergo this kind of procedure if they wanted an abortion. Not all pregnancies are "woops, shouldnt have done that!" Sometimes people find themselves in the situation that they are pregnant due to the failure of contraception- you can't dismiss these women as simply stupid. They have a right to do what they wish with their pregnancy because it is their baby.
However, I do see the arguement on the other side. I'm not sure if I'm dandy with a child being aborted in the middle or beyond of the second trimester. I think that if the woman is over 4 and a half months pregnant, she should have the child and adopt it if she doesnt want to keep it, unless there are special circumstance in which the childs or mothers welfare are in danger, or the life of the mother is in danger. I just beleieve that these choices can't be made by one person. Sure you might say you're anti abortion today, but what if tomorrow you fall pregnant and after being put in that situation, you find that you want an abortion? One person cannot decide this for all women. I think every abortion should be looked at on a case by case basis, and thats why this arguement will never end... because there is no right and wrong answer.

^oooooohhh i like this

rather than the moral issues with the concept and act of abortion, you applied it to life, understood social dynamics, oh god i could go on.

oh azzie <3

 

[glycerine]

in my opinion if a woman gets pregnant and says 'whoops! i didnt mean to do that! my bad!' and then decides to undergo a black market abortion- that is her own stupid fault, for being stupid enough to go to such an abortionist in the first place.

if a woman is even in the position of killing her own kid, based on the fact that she just decided she doesent want it- why does she even deserve information, help and support? yes it is her body- but its not only her body anymore, its also her child as well. she is in that position through her own actions

fuck that is like one of the most ignorant things i have ever heard. in the past, when abortion wasn't legally available, the majority of women who've taken the black-market route have done so out of sheer desperation. it's not the ones who see it as just a bit of an inconvenience that they want to avoid who go to the back alley abortionists. it's women who are desperate, alone and often under quite a bit of duress from their family/partners etc.

i will freely and openly admit that i've had an abortion and i don't regret it at all. yes, i could've been more responsible. but everyone makes mistakes and fucked if i will ever let one mistake ruin my life. i have no desire to be a teenage mother.
you can judge people like me all you want and say that we don't deserve help or support but frankly, until you've been 17, already stressed to the max because of the hsc and a family in complete and utter disarray, earning a checkout chick wage and faced with something like that, your opinion doesn't mean shit to me. you simply don't know what you're talking about. and after all, it's easy to be sanctimonious when it's not happening to you.

oh, ps. i'm epileptic. when i'm over-stressed (whether emotionally or physically) i get more seizures. the average seizure, esp a stress induced one, knocks me out for about a day at a time. carrying a child to term would've exacerbated it incredibly, to the point where i'd have to *at least* double my medication. (and i already take a lot of it, it wears me out and i've been taking it nearly 6 years!). so basically that would've fucked my hsc up, not to mention working so i could support the fucking kid. it's not always as simple as 'oh, it's an inconvenience'.

 

[ur_inner_child]

fuck that is like one of the most ignorant things i have ever heard. in the past, when abortion wasn't legally available, the majority of women who've taken the black-market route have done so out of sheer desperation. it's not the ones who see it as just a bit of an inconvenience that they want to avoid who go to the back alley abortionists. it's women who are desperate, alone and often under quite a bit of duress from their family/partners etc.

i will freely and openly admit that i've had an abortion and i don't regret it at all. yes, i could've been more responsible. but everyone makes mistakes and fucked if i will ever let one mistake ruin my life. i have no desire to be a teenage mother.
you can judge people like me all you want and say that we don't deserve help or support but frankly, until you've been 17, already stressed to the max because of the hsc and a family in complete and utter disarray, earning a checkout chick wage and faced with something like that, your opinion doesn't mean shit to me. you simply don't know what you're talking about. and after all, it's easy to be sanctimonious when it's not happening to you.

oh, ps. i'm epileptic. when i'm over-stressed (whether emotionally or physically) i get more seizures. the average seizure, esp a stress induced one, knocks me out for about a day at a time. carrying a child to term would've exacerbated it incredibly, to the point where i'd have to *at least* double my medication. (and i already take a lot of it, it wears me out and i've been taking it nearly 6 years!). so basically that would've fucked my hsc up, not to mention working so i could support the fucking kid. it's not always as simple as 'oh, it's an inconvenience'.

<3 more hot and amazing, brave, admirable people

 

[chrissieee]

use a fucking condom retards.

 

[Ranger Stacie]

use a fucking condom retards.

thankyou!!!

 

[glycerine]

use a fucking condom retards.

lol lol. you realise they're not 100% safe? yeah, that's basic year 7 or 8 sex ed. retard.

 

[azzie]

^oooooohhh i like this

rather than the moral issues with the concept and act of abortion, you applied it to life, understood social dynamics, oh god i could go on.

oh azzie <3

you know the weird thing? i keep forgetting i've met you. you're still like some god to me. it's like "omgiggle! she talk-ed to me! omgiggle!"
you're like a bos legend.

i really had nothing constructive to say but i thought i'd let you know that.

 

[glycerine]

thankyou!!!

uhhh, yeah. you can reply to a simplistic post like that because it polarises the situation.... but you can't respond to my post which actually addresses your, ahem, arguments [based on your arbitrary moral code and not anything solid/concrete] from the perspective of someone who knows what they're talking about? yeah, i respect that.

 

[Ranger Stacie]

yes. thats why condom companies make it clear to the company that they are not foolproof. before people decide to start rooting around maybe they could think about this fact, and how they might deal with potential consequences. this has all been said in the thread, anyway

 

[glycerine]

i hate sanctimonious people.
ps. 'before you decide to start rooting around'? what, because all people who have sex and fall inadvertadely pregnant are rootrats? yeah, no one ever has accidents in a relationship or anything... :rolleys:

 

[azzie]

yes. thats why condom companies make it clear to the company that they are not foolproof. before people decide to start rooting around maybe they could think about this fact, and how they might deal with potential consequences. this has all been said in the thread, anyway

the thing is though, people have sex- and if the consequence is that they fall pregnant, then they have choices- keep the kid, adopt or abort it. that's the choice they have to make when they're faced with the consequences of their actions.
and come on, we all know that sex in this day and age isnt just to have a family, or within a marriage, and why people should frown on that and take a "holier than thou" view of sex is beyond me. sex is great, sex is pleasurable. people do it, people will continue to do it. but in the end its leaving that last option open to the woman that's important. you may not think its right, but you cant judge every single case for abortion with such a broad view of the issue.

 

[ur_inner_child]

yes. thats why condom companies make it clear to the company that they are not foolproof. before people decide to start rooting around maybe they could think about this fact, and how they might deal with potential consequences. this has all been said in the thread, anyway

whats that thing called?

an IUD

passively considering it

bet phanatical would go insane that im actually making it almost 100% impossible to have babies, and just have sex.

anyway, as someone taking always at least two forms of contraception, if i ever got pregnant, i would hardly find it logical to call me irresponsible for the consequences.

its like driving. everytime you go on the road its not safe. but i wore a seat belt. i was exposed to the other drivers, i put myself in that position, see. i couldve easily just walked. but i didnt. and someone crashes into me.

irresponsible driver my ass.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

fuck that is like one of the most ignorant things i have ever heard. in the past, when abortion wasn't legally available, the majority of women who've taken the black-market route have done so out of sheer desperation. it's not the ones who see it as just a bit of an inconvenience that they want to avoid who go to the back alley abortionists. it's women who are desperate, alone and often under quite a bit of duress from their family/partners etc.

Well it's not a 'bit of inconvenience' anyway so I dunno what you're talking about.

i will freely and openly admit that i've had an abortion and i don't regret it at all. yes, i could've been more responsible. but everyone makes mistakes and fucked if i will ever let one mistake ruin my life. i have no desire to be a teenage mother.

You don't regret it 'at all' yet at the same time you say you could of been more responsible? Sounds like regret to me!

you can judge people like me all you want and say that we don't deserve help or support but frankly, until you've been 17, already stressed to the max because of the hsc and a family in complete and utter disarray, earning a checkout chick wage and faced with something like that, your opinion doesn't mean shit to me. you simply don't know what you're talking about. and after all, it's easy to be sanctimonious when it's not happening to you.

Ok... then I offer my ammount of unique circumstances, kill someone, then when you judge me I say 'OH BUT YOU DIDN'T GO THROUGH WHAT I DID!'

oh, ps. i'm epileptic. when i'm over-stressed (whether emotionally or physically) i get more seizures. the average seizure, esp a stress induced one, knocks me out for about a day at a time. carrying a child to term would've exacerbated it incredibly, to the point where i'd have to *at least* double my medication. (and i already take a lot of it, it wears me out and i've been taking it nearly 6 years!). so basically that would've fucked my hsc up, not to mention working so i could support the fucking kid. it's not always as simple as 'oh, it's an inconvenience'.

Wait a second... so are you saying you didn't have the kid because it would 'fuck up' your hsc? Surely shouldn't have there been some more perspective on this issue than your hsc? The truth is it was an inconvenience to you... and you choose to sway on the side of not having that inconvenience... You shouldn't feel ashamed of your choice because of this but please don't pretend you were doing it for the greater good of the universe or some baloney... you did it for yourself - be happy with that or come to terms with your mistake.

 

[glycerine]

Well it's not a 'bit of inconvenience' anyway so I dunno what you're talking about.

sorry, can you explain exactly what you mean by that?

You don't regret it 'at all' yet at the same time you say you could of been more responsible? Sounds like regret to me!

please, i understand that you might not like my actions, but don't condescend to me or assume you know how i feel. the only regret i have regarding my abortion was that i was in the position of having to make the choice. owning up to the fact that i could've been more careful isn't regret, it's honesty. i maintain my position that i don't regret the choice i made to have an abortion.

Ok... then I offer my ammount of unique circumstances, kill someone, then when you judge me I say 'OH BUT YOU DIDN'T GO THROUGH WHAT I DID!'

it's not about 'oh, you didn't go through what i did', it's about the fact that if you haven't been in that position yourself, you simply don't have the perspective of someone who has been. that's not trying to justify anything, it's common sense.

i reject your comparison because ultimately they are not the same thing. a person, ie someone who has been born, contributes to the world in some way. killing them affects others, ie family and friends. whatever you may choose to think, abortion ultimately affects no one but the parents, specifically the mother.

Wait a second... so are you saying you didn't have the kid because it would 'fuck up' your hsc? Surely shouldn't have there been some more perspective on this issue than your hsc? The truth is it was an inconvenience to you... and you choose to sway on the side of not having that inconvenience... You shouldn't feel ashamed of your choice because of this but please don't pretend you were doing it for the greater good of the universe or some baloney... you did it for yourself - be happy with that or come to terms with your mistake.

i have never tried to pretend that i ultimately made my decision based on anything other than the inconvenience of being pregnant and having a child. however, the issues i outlined regarding my epilepsy are an example of WHY it was inconvenient. and i'm not trying to act like it was an action taken for the greater good, but the reality is had i not had the abortion it's something that would've been an issue. additionally, the likelehood of me having a child with developmental abnormalities is higher than average because of the medication i take for epilepsy. yes at the end of the day i said 'i don't want to have this child so i won't', but there are lots of reasons why it was inconvenient and some of them were more permanent than 'i won't be able to have a normal yr 12 year'.

like i said, please don't be so condescending. i have no issues with openly discussing my experience and my reasons and all that stuff; everything i have said has been completely honest. if i regretted my decision, then i would say so.

i also resent you assuming what i did was a 'mistake'. it was the best thing for me and i will never consider it a mistake.