Zelenski and Trump debate :0 (1 Viewer)

[Ilikedrivingbymycarandthe]

they‘re losing but I hope they keep going bc it’s so fun. I was so bored yesterday.

can sylvia clutch the 1v3?

 

[enoilgam]

Just because someone can “ manage” ( that‘s me being generous) a business, doesn’t mean they’re suitable for government lol.

This x 1000. So many people out there do not understand the significant differences between running a business and a government/department. I hear people rattle on about how government departments need to be run by people with "real world experience", because running your family's onion farm is the same as running a multi-billion dollar highly technical government agency. That is actually a true story (details slightly changed), the onion farmer was a lovely man but he was way out of his depth as the Minister. Watching Elon with DOGE, he is very out of his depth.

 

[SylviaB]

also not you meat riding Elon Musk? Success from where? Being born into extreme wealth?

Musk bought into Tesla for US$10 million. If you think you could turn $10 million into even a single billion, you are absolutely, medically delusional.

Firing US government members for attempting to expose his illegal behaviour? The way he treats his kids? Not even a month after Trump was inaugurated he was already causing severe problems. He doesn’t even understanding the coding on the US welfare system + is hiring 18 year old Ivy League kids who have a past record of selling sensitive information for profit. Need I say more Just because someone can “ manage” ( that‘s me being generous) a business, doesn’t mean they’re suitable for government lol.

You are dumb lol

I get the Trump wants the Ukraine war to end, but he clearly needs to hear Ukraine out a lot more

WTF?

Zelenskyy has been yapping non-stop for the past three years. It's time for him to shut up and listen to what his master has to say.

+ do more research on the impacts the Russia had on Ukraine *cough cough kidnapping Ukrainian children*—> bc Russia ain’t returning them

So what? This somehow means Ukraine can magically defeat Russia? This means that forcing another 100,000 ukrainian men to die for nothing is worth it?

Peace agreements shouldn’t be a quick, done and over lol.

That's not what is happening. Trump has merely started the process after three years of this not even being considered.

Also EU leaders probably wouldn’t have hated Trump as much as they did if he had just treated them with respect/earnestly during his first presidency. People don’t like his arrogant behaviour— it’s undiplomatic and rude. TBH I don’t mind such behaviour in DOMESTIC affairs but on an international scale is too much lmao.

They can go fuck themselves. They've driven Europe and its militaries into the ground and are now throwing a tantrum because Trump isn't doing exactly what they want him to do.

I very much do hope the war will end, but I know it will be at the cost of Ukrainian civilians since the USA sold Ukraine out the minute Russia retaliated. Honestly the war + it’s escalation only pretty much started thanks to the USA, they should do better.

Sold it out? What the hell?

The hundreds of billions in aid, the sanctions, the financial restrictions...this is selling out Ukraine?

The war was indeed fuelled by the US - but by exactly the people who oppose Trump the most. It's not Trump's fault they did this, he's simply cleaning up their mess.

Maybe Trump might fix that but he probably won’t; his family ( Ivanka, Kai, etc) is already trying to get a slice of the pie despite being hyper unqualified,

LMAO

How the fuck could anything Trump's granddaughter does stop Trump from making America better?

and other billionaires attempting to further sell the US people out r cozying up to him. It’s sad to see bc I genuinely do like some of Trump’s ideas but his execution and the ppl around him ( including his own family) r greedy and r giving him wrong understandings about the world which he’s following lol.

They're not cozying up to him, they're sucking up to him. They want to stay on his good side because this is the first leader in modern history actually rocking the boat. Zuckerberg in particular is terrified of Trump prosecuting him hence the sudden change in Zuck's tune.

 

[SylviaB]

This x 1000. So many people out there do not understand the significant differences between running a business and a government/department. I hear people rattle on about how government departments need to be run by people with "real world experience", because running your family's onion farm is the same as running a multi-billion dollar highly technical government agency. That is actually a true story (details slightly changed), the onion farmer was a lovely man but he was way out of his depth as the Minister. Watching Elon with DOGE, he is very out of his depth.

He's doing a better job than almost anyone else in the US government would do, especially since most government workers don't WANT any kind of serious reform and would put up roadblocks the whole way through. Musk isn't perfect at this, but almost literally nobody would be doing better. And if you're unhappy with what he's doing - don't blame Trump or Musk, blame half a century of incompetence and corruption at all levels of the US government. You keep acting like conventional politicians are competent. They're simply not. If they were, none of this would be necessary.

Do I have to remind you the alternative was KAMALA FUCKING HARRIS?

 

[SylviaB]

Sorry, Im struggling to understand, in your view when was the US actually great? I thought the MAGA movement defined that period as being the mid-20th century. Or was it the 19th century? Im a little confused.

America industrialized in the 19th century - that's when it became great. And it took place at a time of free domestic markets but highly restricted trade policy.

The US also grew tremendously in the 50s and 60s, but after that it suffered enormously and much of the potential it appeared to have in the 60s was never realized. It was still a great country for much of the time after this, but in relative terms, it got worse in most ways (with some exceptions).

That 90% of stuff is non-partisan and is a product of understanding efficiencies, systems and administration. It has nothing to do with left-wing vs right-wing and everything to do with administrative prowess. The latter is a skill Mr Trump lacks (not a problem necessarily) but by bringing in loyalists, he hasn't done much to improve himself in this area.

Nothing about the modern US government is efficient. Your view of the world is wrong.

Overall, this where you and I fundamentally differ in view. I think that the modern world is pretty good and Im glad Im alive in this period. Things are absolutely not perfect today, but they are better than the past. Even in the years since Ive finished HS, Ive noticed that a lot of things have improved such as healthcare, our understanding of mental health (we are generally nicer to each other now) and technology despite its flaws has made live much easier and more accessible.

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The US was a powerhouse with unlimited potential in the 1960s. What has happened since that time is deeply, deeply disappointing. Entire regions of the country deindustrialized, major cities filled with violent criminals, drug addicts and homeless, stagnant technological progress outside of silicon valley, facilitated the rise of China to the detriment of most of its population, decades and decades of embroiling itself in costly, destructive and pointless wars, going from making great culture to producing capeshit movies and nicki minaj, went from landing on the moon to NASA not doing anything of note in 50 years, having a government that facilitates mass illegal immigration unlike anywhere else in the world, having a government and university system that thinks advancement should be based on race instead of merit, having a government that locked people in their houses for months of end while allowing far-left rioters to burn down your city, a country where children are taught that white people are "privileged oppressors" and that babies are racist, a country where all institutions have been ideologically captured.

And you're mad Trump isn't maintaining this status quo. Sad.

To be honest, I think a lot of the worlds problems come down to individuals who are unhappy with their lives and choose to blame the government, immigrants, climate change, big corporations, the unions etc for their problems. So they choose to follow the path of blowing things up rather than looking in the mirror and taking charge of their own lives. That's one of the few things I liked about Menzies-style conservativism, it put the onus on you.

So when the government imports millions of people and allows rich foreigners to buy up housing, making housing unaffordable and unavailable, the correct response is to blame myself? When the government is in cahoots with construction unions that enrich themselves with taxpayer money and delay vital infrastructure projects so they don't have to work so hard, that's a ME problem? When the government takes a quarter of my paycheck and wastes it on the most stupid shit imaginable, I need to take personal responsibility for it? Get bent.

 

[enoilgam]

He's doing a better job than almost anyone else in the US government would do, especially since most government workers don't WANT any kind of serious reform and would put up roadblocks the whole way through. Musk isn't perfect at this, but almost literally nobody would be doing better. And if you're unhappy with what he's doing - don't blame Trump or Musk, blame half a century of incompetence and corruption at all levels of the US government. You keep acting like conventional politicians are competent. They're simply not. If they were, none of this would be necessary.

I dont think you really understand government. Public Servants dont block reform, we cant. We can be "frank and fearless", but ultimately we do what the government says provided it is legal and actually possible. To me this whole narrative of "unelected bureaucrats" and "deep state" is nonsense. We dont have anywhere near the power to do that stuff, or the will. Most of us are working people with families, mortgages, bills etc who just get on with our jobs and go home.

Also Musks tactics arent anything new, it's just a basic slash and burn. His methodology for downsizing the Federal Government is very unprofessional, inefficient and not best practice. It's been done before and it always leads to higher costs because the better people leave or people with super niche skills are removed and the service can only fill that gap again quickly with much more expensive consultants. Seen it done many times. If you want to downsize, you need to do it in a considered manner following the right principals to ensure you are getting genuine long term savings.

America industrialized in the 19th century - that's when it became great. And it took place at a time of free domestic markets but highly restricted trade policy.

The US also grew tremendously in the 50s and 60s, but after that it suffered enormously and much of the potential it appeared to have in the 60s was never realized. It was still a great country for much of the time after this, but in relative terms, it got worse in most ways (with some exceptions).

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The US was a powerhouse with unlimited potential in the 1960s. What has happened since that time is deeply, deeply disappointing. Entire regions of the country deindustrialized, major cities filled with violent criminals, drug addicts and homeless, stagnant technological progress outside of silicon valley, facilitated the rise of China to the detriment of most of its population, decades and decades of embroiling itself in costly, destructive and pointless wars, going from making great culture to producing capeshit movies and nicki minaj, went from landing on the moon to NASA not doing anything of note in 50 years, having a government that facilitates mass illegal immigration unlike anywhere else in the world, having a government and university system that thinks advancement should be based on race instead of merit, having a government that locked people in their houses for months of end while allowing far-left rioters to burn down your city, a country where children are taught that white people are "privileged oppressors" and that babies are racist, a country where all institutions have been ideologically captured.

First of all, saying 19th century USA is great or better than now is ludicrous. Life expectancy today is more than double, inequality is down significantly due to the decline of robber barons, unemployment is half what it was back then. You want me to continue? You think China's bad, I mean it is but then you argue that 19th century US is somehow better? Well, if I ever invent a time machine Ill send you back, see how long you last.

Also didnt you just diss every President from the 30s-60s? So much inconsistency.

So when the government imports millions of people and allows rich foreigners to buy up housing, making housing unaffordable and unavailable, the correct response is to blame myself? When the government is in cahoots with construction unions that enrich themselves with taxpayer money and delay vital infrastructure projects so they don't have to work so hard, that's a ME problem? When the government takes a quarter of my paycheck and wastes it on the most stupid shit imaginable, I need to take personal responsibility for it? Get bent.

Granted it's not perfect, but its still better than any other time in history. My grandfather always reminds us when we complain about life here how lucky we are and how shit it was when he was a kid in Italy and starting out in Australia. I mean, you sound so down with things - what are you doing to make your life better?

Also re infrastructure projects, again you reveal your right wing lens. Ive worked on a multi-billion dollar infrastructure project and unions are a pain, but they arent the biggest issue. I wont go too deep in because this is will become an essay (Ive bored an old BoSer with this before), but in short these are the major cost factors

Inadequate scoping: With government projects, they dont scope them correctly so the initial assumptions and cost-benefit analysis are usually off by a long way
Poor procurement practices: To many times the contracts are excessive or contain provisions which mean the government is stung as soon as there are variations (which happen due to poor scoping)
Consultancies: You think Unions or dole bludgers are bad, boy you havent seen a bill from a consultancy firm for their services. The unions wish they could scam as good as them. If only I could tell you the stories of graft that happens here. Some of them add value, but a lot of the services are ridiculous.

 

[Ilikedrivingbymycarandthe]

Lmao. I love how you keep bringing up Kamala Harris, completely ignoring what I said earlier About them both being equally bad ( in different ways). Just because one’s slightly better then the other doesn’t mean they’re any good lol.

He's doing a better job than almost anyone else in the US government would do, especially since most government workers don't WANT any kind of serious reform and would put up roadblocks the whole way through. Musk isn't perfect at this, but almost literally nobody would be doing better. And if you're unhappy with what he's doing - don't blame Trump or Musk, blame half a century of incompetence and corruption at all levels of the US government. You keep acting like conventional politicians are competent. They're simply not. If they were, none of this would be necessary.

Do I have to remind you the alternative was KAMALA FUCKING HARRIS?

 

[enoilgam]

Lmao. I love how you keep bringing up Kamala Harris, completely ignoring what I said earlier About them both being equally bad ( in different ways). Just because one’s slightly better then the other doesn’t mean they’re any good lol.

Democrat logic:

Put young, high potential politician in as VP
Work out that she really isnt that competent/popular, do nothing to help her/prop her up etc
Decide that she is so bad, you'd rather run a clearly over the hill dude in his 80s instead
The over the hill dude flops hard at the debate
Go back to the VP who you worked out isnt that great

Isnt it shocking that she lost...

 

[Ilikedrivingbymycarandthe]

Musk bought into Tesla for US$10 million. If you think you could turn $10 million into even a single billion, you are absolutely, medically delusional.



You are dumb lol



WTF?

Zelenskyy has been yapping non-stop for the past three years. It's time for him to shut up and listen to what his master has to say.




So what? This somehow means Ukraine can magically defeat Russia? This means that forcing another 100,000 ukrainian men to die for nothing is worth it?



That's not what is happening. Trump has merely started the process after three years of this not even being considered.



They can go fuck themselves. They've driven Europe and its militaries into the ground and are now throwing a tantrum because Trump isn't doing exactly what they want him to do.



Sold it out? What the hell?

The hundreds of billions in aid, the sanctions, the financial restrictions...this is selling out Ukraine?

The war was indeed fuelled by the US - but by exactly the people who oppose Trump the most. It's not Trump's fault they did this, he's simply cleaning up their mess.



LMAO

How the fuck could anything Trump's granddaughter does stop Trump from making America better?



They're not cozying up to him, they're sucking up to him. They want to stay on his good side because this is the first leader in modern history actually rocking the boat. Zuckerberg in particular is terrified of Trump prosecuting him hence the sudden change in Zuck's tune.

Do you not know how the Russia-Ukraine war started? You don’t understand what I mean when I said the US sold Ukraine out? Russia, Ukraine, the USA and Nato have had problems ever since Crimea ( which was all the way back in 2014, incase you didn’t know lol). Also why do you keep meat riding Elon? The only way he was able to turn Tesla and Space X successful was by lobbying US government under Obama to fund his companies ( and disregard NASA). Everything Space X is doing should‘ve been NASA’s job— he just bribed the US government to support his PRIVATE company instead ( which is stupid lol).

Also yes, Trump’s family r trying to take advantage of the fact that Trump’s president now. Back in 2016 Ivanka ( with ONLY the experience of being a model- which she still got through cronyism) she worked as advisor to her own father despite being unqualified as shi ( she earned around 600 million USD from her job + other streams of revenue + signing private deals with China despite the US supposedly being against China lol), now Trump’s granddaughter Kai is becoming a YouTube influenced centred around her grandfather‘S career- which MAGA supporters like u r totally meat riding. Trump’s family r taking advantage of him one way or another- they’re using him for their own benefit whether it be using him for publicity or trynna get a hand in politics. I’m not sure how this isn’t common knowledge, but I most likely assume you’re a troll account lmao 🧌🧌

also Zelenskyy should listen to his “ master” boi youre so funny omg.

 

[Ilikedrivingbymycarandthe]

Democrat logic:

Put young, high potential politician in as VP
Work out that she really isnt that competent/popular, do nothing to help her/prop her up etc
Decide that she is so bad, you'd rather run a clearly over the hill dude in his 80s instead
The over the hill dude flops hard at the debate
Go back to the VP who you worked out isnt that great

Isnt it shocking that she lost...

Right. Idk why they thought Biden was a good idea in the first place. He just wasted time and tax payer money. Anybody’s better then Biden

 

[enoilgam]

Everything Space X is doing should‘ve been NASA’s job— he just bribed the US government to support his PRIVATE company instead ( which is stupid lol).

Just on this point, what Musk did was legal. In Australia (cant speak for the US), actual corruption and bribery arent common simply because the law/systems/processes are so stringent and anti-corruption authorities are very proactive (I imagine the US is similar, especially with the FBI etc). What does happen is a lot of "grey corruption", where lobbyists, donors, politicians etc do shady things that arent against the law. Best example is pork barrelling, a government pumping money into a marginal seat is unethical and unfair, but not illegal. That, is a major issue which needs addressing and neither side will do anything about it due to their vested interests

 

[Ilikedrivingbymycarandthe]

Just on this point, what Musk did was legal. In Australia (cant speak for the US), actual corruption and bribery arent common simply because the law/systems/processes are so stringent and anti-corruption authorities are very proactive (I imagine the US is similar, especially with the FBI etc). What does happen is a lot of "grey corruption", where lobbyists, donors, politicians etc do shady things that arent against the law. Best example is pork barrelling, a government pumping money into a marginal seat is unethical and unfair, but not illegal. That, is a major issue which needs addressing and neither side will do anything about it due to their vested interests

That’s always been a problem in the US system it should be illegal bc it’s so stupid- it’s not just an Elon thing too like you said- it’s prevalent on both the US left and right. Sort of irrelevant/ but I once did a research paper on how much funding both republicans and Democrats get from arms companies like Lockheed, let’s just say they give very generous donations, definitely expecting nothing in return

 

[enoilgam]

That’s always been a problem in the US system it should be illegal bc it’s so stupid- it’s not just an Elon thing too like you said- it’s prevalent on both the US left and right. Sort of irrelevant/ but I once did a research paper on how much funding both republicans and Democrats get from arms companies like Lockheed, let’s just say they give very generous donations, definitely expecting nothing in return

It happens here as well, just in the US it is way more prolific. Honestly, if the government banned a lot of this grey corruption you would see a significant improvement in policy.

 

[nsw..wollongong]

It's time for him to shut up and listen to what his master has to say.

furry behaviour

 

[Socialism]

furry behaviour

self exposal is crazy whaaaat




please give me laugh reactions i'll do anything for the reactions

 

[Socialism]

furry behaviour

also on a more serious note im cackling new peak sylvia

 

[coolcat6778]

 

[gammahydroxybutyrate]

You accuse me of straw-manning and then put trickle down economics in inverted commas as if you're referring to the formal name of an economic policy. But that's simply a fabrication.

FWIW though, Australians have a much higher material standard of living on average than most of the rest of the world - do you imagine this is because the average Australian worker is more intelligent or hardworking than the rest of the world's workers?

Also, Ukraine has much greater inequality than Australia - would you be willing to die for Ukraine if you were Ukrainian? Why should anyone else?



That's not why people are against it. Zelenskyy says the war isn't over until Ukraine gets all its territory back, which means he is explicitly anti-peace. And Europe wants to the war to go on as long as possible because they want Russia to be weakened as much as possible for their (europe's) own sake. They're happy for the entire fighting age male population of Ukraine to die fighting against russia if it means the war goes on long enough to make Russia unable to threaten any other european country. So again, they're explicitly anti-peace.



What exactly do you imagine could be done about Russia in this regard?



There is no analogy to nazi germany. There is no reason to think Russia intends to or believes it can take over anywhere in western europe and thatanything other than complete martyrdom of young ukrainian men as a demographic will result in this takeover.

More civilians died in a year of fighting in gaza than have been killed in three years of fighting in ukraine. Europe's de facto or de jure support for israel shows their rhetoric around Ukraine and Russia is purely self-interested and not based on principle. And then Trump's attacked for suggesting that America's self interest matters.



Who gives a shit about international law? International law can say whatever you want - all that matters at the end of the day is what is happening and what is possible in practice.

You can come up with whatever convulsed legal arguments for Putin being the literal offspring of hitler and satan, if you don't have a way of forcing russia out of ukraine then it's all for nothing.



Again, what do you imagine international law is supposed to do in a practical sense? This or that motions or rulings or statements are worthless unless they lead to particular practical actions which you are yet to explain.

All that matters is the practical actions to be taken.

lol

 

[SylviaB]

Trump: "you're gambling with WW3"

Zelenskyy in 2022: *Blames Russia for missile that landed in Poland despite coming from Ukraine in hopes of NATO declaring war on Russia*

Trump was right, Trump is right, Trump will continue being

 

[SylviaB]

Do you not know how the Russia-Ukraine war started? You don’t understand what I mean when I said the US sold Ukraine out? Russia, Ukraine, the USA and Nato have had problems ever since Crimea ( which was all the way back in 2014, incase you didn’t know lol).

Yes, the old regime caused these problems, Trump is reversing course. You're blaming the US then crying they're not doing the same stupid shit over and over again.

Also why do you keep meat riding Elon? The only way he was able to turn Tesla and Space X successful was by lobbying US government under Obama to fund his companies ( and disregard NASA). Everything Space X is doing should‘ve been NASA’s job— he just bribed the US government to support his PRIVATE company instead ( which is stupid lol).

SpaceX is doing it because NASA can't and won't. If SpaceX (or any other private US space company) didn't exist, NASA wouldn't be doing it - IT WOULDN'T BE DONE.

now Trump’s granddaughter Kai is becoming a YouTube influenced centred around her grandfather‘S career- which MAGA supporters like u r totally meat riding.

Would you fucking listen to yourself?

You're claiming that a 17 year old making youtube videos means trump isn't going to improve the US. Pure retardation.

Trump’s family r taking advantage of him one way or another- they’re using him for their own benefit whether it be using him for publicity or trynna get a hand in politics. I’m not sure how this isn’t common knowledge, but I most likely assume you’re a troll account lmao 🧌🧌

Okay... WHO GIVES A FUCK?

I would be happy for Trump and his family to make billions from his time in office (which they won't) if we followed through on what he said he would do (which he is so far), because his actions will be worth trillions to the US. Of course, all presidents have had this kind of 'corruption' and it's literally never mattered to any of you clowns.

also Zelenskyy should listen to his “ master” boi youre so funny omg.

Zelenskyy is nothing without the US. He is absolutely dependant on the US. If the US wanted, he would have already stopped being the leader of Ukraine. He's the one who needs to shut up and listen.