Schools defend right to expel gays (2 Viewers)

[isildurrrr1]

yep, by having policies in place that essentially force their priests/hierarchy to live a life of abstinence, many of these men have decades of bent up sexual frustration and then turn into a sexual predator on the easiest targets they can. besides all the problems the church caused in africa by refusing condoms, the same goes for blindly refusing to believe that priests are just like every other person on the planet and experience strong sexual urges. also never mind the fact that the vatican is currently housing multiple priests who are wanted by multiple countries over sexual assaults from decades past. this is an institution you think is worth defending?

even if you want to cling to the 'oh well their actions have nothing to do with the fact that they are priests', you still have to reconcile with the fact that priests, as an industry, have the highest rates of sexual assaults on children of any profession in the country. but catholics just don't want to hear any of it, the church of jesus christ as the biggest thinly veiled curtain for a network of child molesters and abusers in the western world. that just doesn't get people out of bed on sundays to church, does it?

after the royal commission is complete in a decade or so, church attendance numbers are going to take another massive hit - should be exciting.

But the schools affiliated with the church should expel gay students coz you know, that's not discrimination in education at all. er mah gerd religious rights being infringed!

Guess its ok as a catholic only to touch other boys when you're officially part of the church.

 

[enoilgam]

Just a point, I dont think Catholic Schools actually expel people for being gay.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Just a point, I dont think Catholic Schools actually expel people for being gay.

no but the teachers encourage students to ostracize kids for being gay. sure this is a personal anecdote from a friend's experience, but nevertheless it happens.

catholic church is full of scum.

 

[enoilgam]

no but the teachers encourage students to ostracize kids for being gay. sure this is a personal anecdote from a friend's experience, but nevertheless it happens.

It depends on the school as well and the environment - homophobia is not isolated to Catholic schools.

Also, I think it's important to distinguish between religious organisations and religious beliefs for the purposes of this discussion. Just because a religious organisation is corrupt or whatever, that doesnt necessarily make their beliefs corrupt.

 

[isildurrrr1]

It depends on the school as well and the environment - homophobia is not isolated to Catholic schools.

Also, I think it's important to distinguish between religious organisations and religious beliefs for the purposes of this discussion. Just because a religious organisation is corrupt or whatever, that doesnt necessarily make their beliefs corrupt.

of course its isolated to catholic schools. but the schools want the legal right to expel homosexual students. were specifically talking about "christian private schools" which are mostly catholic in the first place, which they do have an affiliation with the church.

Hitchens makes the best point about our topic in 11:50

"You [Stephen Fry] couldn't be a member of your church because you're born in sin... You're a child made in the image of god, oh no you're not, you're a faggot. And you can't join our church and you can't go to heaven."

 

[enoilgam]

of course its isolated to catholic schools. but the schools want the legal right to expel homosexual students. were specifically talking about "christian private schools" which are mostly catholic in the first place, which they do have an affiliation with the church.

I was referring more to the specific point you made before, not the overall debate. I'm just overall confused as to why Catholic Schools would want the right in the first place since they dont really expel people for being gay. Besides, I dont even understand how they could justify it on the basis of Catholic belief anyway.

 

[funkshen]

I was referring more to the specific point you made before, not the overall debate. I'm just overall confused as to why Catholic Schools would want the right in the first place since they dont really expel people for being gay. Besides, I dont even understand how they could justify it on the basis of Catholic belief anyway.

It's not about wanting any right in particular. Catholic schools are defending their religious freedom in the abstract from the gubbas, and rightfully so.

 

[isildurrrr1]

It's not about wanting any right in particular. Catholic schools are defending their religious freedom in the abstract from the gubbas, and rightfully so.

religious freedom should not mean the freedom to discriminate.

what if i created a mormon church that followed an old doctrine? no black people. whites only. no black kids in my school because religion.

 

[Lolsmith]

religious freedom should not mean the freedom to discriminate.

what if i created a mormon church that followed an old doctrine? no black people. whites only. no black kids in my school because religion.

How stupid do you have to be to not understand this

Private organisations have the right to enforce any rules they want within their own organisation as long as it doesn't infringe the rights of others (i.e: "our religion is to murder cunts" is obviously not on). That's it. This is the end of the discussion.

 

[isildurrrr1]

How stupid do you have to be to not understand this

Private organisations have the right to enforce any rules they want within their own organisation as long as it doesn't infringe the rights of others (i.e: "our religion is to murder cunts" is obviously not on). That's it. This is the end of the discussion.

How is expelling someone for being a homosexual from an educational institution not an infringement of rights? You're going out of your way to deny someone an education because of their sexual preferences, it's the same as barring someone from a school because of their race.

 

[Graney]

How is expelling someone for being a homosexual from an educational institution not an infringement of rights? You're going out of your way to deny someone an education because of their sexual preferences, it's the same as barring someone from a school because of their race.

What about denying someone an education at a particular school because of gender? Or age? Or intellect? Or academic results? Or religion?

You too are a discriminator.

 

[Lolsmith]

How is expelling someone for being a homosexual from an educational institution not an infringement of rights? You're going out of your way to deny someone an education because of their sexual preferences, it's the same as barring someone from a school because of their race.

You do not have the right to be educated. Even if you did, this particular organisation is not the sole and only provider of that service, you have other options that operate under different means.

You too are a discriminator.

Yeah the victimsss the victimsssssss

 

[nerdasdasd]

You do not have the right to be educated. Even if you did, this particular organisation is not the sole and only provider of that service, you have other options that operate under different means.

Yeah the victimsss the victimsssssss

Who doesn't have the right to be educated ?

 

[Lolsmith]

Who doesn't have the right to be educated ?

There is no such thing as the right to be educated. The term "right" is thrown around far too flippantly and its meaning has been pretty much lost.

 

[nerdasdasd]

There is no such thing as the right to be educated. The term "right" is thrown around far too flippantly and its meaning has been pretty much lost.

It was clear sarcasm, to make a point .

 

[someth1ng]

To me, it's unethical to discriminate due sexual orientation from a school. The difference between discriminating due to age, intellect, gender etc is that there is another place for them to go that is pretty much equivalent. By that, I mean, if there's boys schools, there's girls schools, if there's Catholic schools, there's Islamic schools, if there's primary school, there's secondary school. If everything was equal, if there's straight schools (some religious schools), there should be gay schools.

If the religious schools (obviously, no all) are "no gays" shouldn't they have a real equivalent where it's "only gays".

You can argue that there are schools for "everyone" but then we can go to the discussion about would it be acceptable if there were only girls schools and coed schools? - that would be sexist.

I probably didn't word this very well, but yeah, whatever.

 

[funkshen]

There is no such thing as the right to be educated. The term "right" is thrown around far too flippantly and its meaning has been pretty much lost.

actually the right to education in australia derives from our treaty obligations under the international covenant on economic, social and cultural rights (specifically articles 13 and 14). it might be thrown around flippantly but without withdrawing from this treaty, the australian government has the positive obligation to ensure that education is accessible.

s 116 of the constitution forbids the government from prohibiting the free exercise of religion. many religions have tenets that exclude and restrict membership and member rights, and they are free to practice their religion as such and so long as they do not contravene the law. what s 116 prohibits is actually quite narrow, and has generally favoured religion, and the relationship between broad-based funding for religious schools and the religious freedoms of those schools is a very complicated issue.

this is all, however, besides the point. public education is available to all students, and for that reason the exclusionary practices of religious schools, based on religious principles, does not infringe on anyone's right to education. furthermore, it is very unlikely that catholic schools could maintain an argument that, based on their religious precepts, they have the freedom to exclude homosexual students.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Problem is religious schools do get a portion of government funding either directly or indirectly.

Australia should definitely move to a system more like finland when it comes to education. pure public schools that get enough funding so everyone gets the same access/level of education. but a girl can only dream

 

[funkshen]

i have no problem with the federal government using its funding commitments as leverage in regards to policies such as expelling gay students. it is, however, a storm in a teacup.

 

[Kiraken]

There is no such thing as the right to be educated. The term "right" is thrown around far too flippantly and its meaning has been pretty much lost.

Although I do agree that the right to be educated thing is irrelevant to this debate (they are not being denied education full stop, they simply need to get an education elsewhere from any other public school or even private school that accepts them), I would say education is a right that people should have