Brogden resigns (3 Viewers)

[SashatheMan]

why would he try commit suicide?

career over
respect over
marriege maybe over
people realising what he stood for was bullshit amd he is just a horny smartass.

 

[Iron]

I guess he thought it was the...easy option.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Leetom, you are a partisan fool. Brogden made private insulting comments about an opposites wife (which I imagine was probably more an attack on Carr, since u kno... he's a fairly ugly bloke), do you really believe that no one in the ALP says these sort of comments in private about Liberals?

 

[SashatheMan]

I guess he thought it was the...easy option.

but why now, not 5 years ago

 

[Iron]

Leetom, you are a partisan fool. Brogden made private insulting comments about an opposites wife (which I imagine was probably more an attack on Carr, since u kno... he's a fairly ugly bloke), do you really believe that no one in the ALP says these sort of comments in private about Liberals?

To speak in his stead, who in the ALP? So far there is Broggers for NSW (Carr) and at Least Abbott for Cmmth (Latham).

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Just because comments don't make the mainstream papers or whatever doesn't mean they're not said... To believe that the ALP is so pure as to never say personal mean comments about their political opponents is simply blind partisanship... Lets look at the sort of comments left-wing student politicians make about the liberals, lets look at the comments latham publicly made about the liberals....

Please don't be a moron like leetom.

 

[Iron]

But that's not the point. How can you seriously try to defend appauling public comments of Liberal politicians on the assumption that the other side probably do it too? What kind of argument is that?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

wtf? I'm not defending their comments, he's saying "You'd never see someone of Labor integrity behave in such a manner. Depsite how much we dislike Liberals, we never go as far as to abuse their family or make plans to kill them." I'm saying that's a bunch of partisan bs.

Point to me where I have said "The Liberal comments are ok because the Labor party does it too!".

I'm attacking his belief that the only liberals behave like this.

 

[nwatts]

Leetom, you are a partisan fool. Brogden made private insulting comments about an opposites wife (which I imagine was probably more an attack on Carr, since u kno... he's a fairly ugly bloke), do you really believe that no one in the ALP says these sort of comments in private about Liberals?

He also wanted to get into the pants of a Sun Hearld reporter.

Link to article on suicide attempt - http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/shattered-brogdens-suicide-bid/2005/08/31/1125302574623.html
- It's a terrible thing, but something inside me saw it coming. His marriage/career/everything was totally over. "A casual resignation is not the end of this," I thought, and I was right.

Link to first hand account of Brogden's debauchery - http://smh.com.au/news/national/ive...w-a-proposition/2005/08/29/1125302510913.html
- I was sickened when I read this. I personally hate those who commit adultery. Those in a position of influence/power should just know better.

 

[Iron]

wtf? I'm not defending their comments, he's saying "You'd never see someone of Labor integrity behave in such a manner. Depsite how much we dislike Liberals, we never go as far as to abuse their family or make plans to kill them." I'm saying that's a bunch of partisan bs.

Point to me where I have said "The Liberal comments are ok because the Labor party does it too!".

I'm attacking his belief that the only liberals behave like this.

It's leetom's way to write in polished, exaggerated, Soviet-style rhetoric. He simply said that the ALP doesn't go for family. Perfectly reasonable. You denied this, despite the evidence, implying that the ALP must do it too.
I don't agree with the inference that these comments can be mitigated, or seporated from the party which they sprout from, because of a cynical belief that the other side are probably just as bad in private.
Lets just stick to what we know.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

"go" for family?
You're implying that there are orchestrated attacks by the liberals against the families of others? If so i'd like to know how you've come to that conclusion.

If you're implying that the liberals somehow attract, or influence people, into becomming the sort of person who says hateful comments about their opposites families then i'd also like to challenge this. Hateful comments about people/families are said by many people of many different political persuaisions. To say that "because a couple of liberals (that i can think of) have had these sort of comments published in the media" and "no current labor politicians (that i can think of) have had these sort of comments published in the media" means that labor politicians don't say these sort of things is not a logical argument.

Saying that alot of people say these sort of comments about different people, and there is no political divide to separate them means that the chance that labor politicians have said this sort of thing as much as liberal politicians is a logical argument.

 

[clive]

holy shit:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/disgraced-brogdens-suicide-bid/2005/08/31/1125302574623.html

John Brogden was rushed to hospital last night after an apparent suicide attempt, one day after he resigned in disgrace as the NSW Opposition Leader.

He was found at his Pittwater electorate office some time before 11pm with self-inflicted stab wounds. He is believed to have been in a drug-and alcohol-induced stupor, and was taken by ambulance to Royal North Shore Hospital.

News of Mr Brogden's collapse swept quickly around Macquarie Street, where his colleagues had been involved in a late-night numbers battle to decide who will replace the 36-year-old, who resigned on Monday after admitting to propositioning female journalists and referring to Helena Carr, wife of the former premier, as a mail-order bride.

Mr Brogden's deputy, Barry O'Farrell, immediately put off his push for the leadership in a ballot scheduled for today and rushed to the hospital to support Mr Brogden and his wife, Lucy.

The Herald had called Mr O'Farrell about 11pm to ask him about the numbers, but he replied: "Excuse me if I say I don't care about the leadership at the moment, but I am following an ambulance with John Brogden inside. He has attempted self-harm. It sort of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?"
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Mr Brogden's injuries were described as not life-threatening. They required no surgery last night. He was said to be lucid when taken to hospital.

The Herald understands Mr Brogden may have been aware that The Daily Telegraph was to publish allegations today that he was involved in another sexual advance to two female reporters. It led early editions of the paper with the headline: "Brogden's sordid past".

Mr Brogden's collapse could mean that this morning's planned leadership ballot will not go ahead.

Mr O'Farrell and his fellow Liberal MPs Peta Seaton and Andrew Tink left the hospital at 12.10am, but did not elaborate on Mr Brogden's condition.

Earlier yesterday Mr Brogden had returned to work as the member for Pittwater, pledging his commitment to local causes and getting warm support from his party and constituents.

He spent the day in the electorate office at Mona Vale, where some locals were disappointed by his behaviour but fully supported his decision to remain their MP.

"I would have liked him to stay on as leader of the party, but realistically he probably can't," said Lyndee Cook, 50, of Mona Vale. "He has been the member for here a long time and I'm glad he is staying on. Most people here quite like him."

Mr Brogden has been the MP in the blue-ribbon Liberal seat since a 1996 byelection and has improved his winning margin in the past two elections. He has fought hard to try to save Mona Vale Hospital and reserved his only interview after resigning for The Manly Daily, promising to devote his "complete commitment to serve and fight the issues".
Barry O'Farrell and Peta Seaton, and Andrew Tink, left, leaving Royal North Shore Hospital early this morning.Photo: James Brickwood

Barry O'Farrell and Peta Seaton, and Andrew Tink, left, leaving Royal North Shore Hospital early this morning.
Photo: James Brickwood

"Now I have got the chance to come back [as an MP] and recommit myself to the role."

The president of the Pittwater branch, Ross Barlow, said local party members were disappointed by his actions but wanted him to remain their MP.

"Local members were disappointed but they are giving their support back to him," Mr Barlow said. "John is a good operator and a good person in Pittwater. He has done a good job here."

Erin Ricketts, 20, a student from Scotland Island, was glad Mr Brogden remained in Parliament and hoped he would "do good things" for the northern beaches. "If he pinched some girl's arse and said the wrong thing it shouldn't reflect what he does politically," she said.

"This whole thing about social righteousness kind of annoys me. I think everybody is human."

 

[nwatts]

Clive you're 20 minutes behind me.

Not-That-Bright: I agree, but at the same time you've got to think why the Liberals have had their place in the spotlight recently, with regards to political "abuse". I haven't really heard of ALP members crapping on opponent's families, and as you said, it doesn't really matter when considering who does it. I think the argument should be why have the Liberals been under media watch when everyone does it.

Also, in this case (not sure it has been mentioned) I don't think it's the abuse itself that sparked uproar. It's the racial attack that came with it. If Brogden called Carr's wife a "kerazy biatch" I think the response would have been much different, not to mention the grammatical frenzy that would ensue.

 

[SashatheMan]

drinking and taking drugs to escape reality.....

tsk tsk tsk

 

[clive]

ha, i skimmed the page cos i thought someone would have posted it but obviously i missed your post

 

[Iron]

It's not a logical argument, it's a cynical one. You're a reasonable fellow NTB, I dont see why you make such a pessimistic point unless you're trying to mitigate the comments made.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Looking at the situation, and attributing it to the party does not make sense. If the party is 'guilty' of anything, it's allowing a dickhead that would get drunk and act like that to become their nsw representative.

edit: On a side note, I really admired Carr much more than before when listening to his comments on this matter. A man that's willing to stand up and defend his wife as strongly as he did deserves respect.

 

[Iron]

The Libs are more dirty than the ALP in this sense. Im yet to see evidence to the contrary.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

And in which sense are the ALP dirtier than the Libs?

Lets not forget this is the party that spawned keating, and as far as I know the only "evidence" you have is that brogden said this about carr's wife, and that maybe the libs leaked information about latham and his family?

 

[nwatts]

Looking at the situation, and attributing it to the party does not make sense. If the party is 'guilty' of anything, it's allowing a dickhead that would get drunk and act like that to become their nsw representative.

edit: On a side note, I really admired Carr much more than before when listening to his comments on this matter. A man that's willing to stand up and defend his wife as strongly as he did deserves respect.

Are they on the net anywhere? I'd be interested in reading what he had to say.