Carbon Tax (3 Viewers)

[Azure]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

Ridiculously high sacrifice? Come on it's got so many exemptions and subsidies built in it won't hurt a fly. Furthermore we are 16th in the world in our number of emmisions and 11th by capita, the idea that we aren't a significant emitter and that we don't need to take a leadership role in the reduction of carbon emissions is delusory and that is why both major parties are committed to a 5% cut in emissions by 2020 and why we are implementing a mechanism which will do just that.

If it wouldn't hurt a fly then you are basically conceding that the tax is utterly useless because the whole point is to cause major polluters discomfort.

Nobody worthwhile is looking to Australia for any form of leadership, let's just be real about that. This is probably, at least in part, why our governments efforts to bring about a global consensus about this issue were futile. Even if we do lower our emissions, it is going to have a negligible effect on the environment. All we would have achieved is lowered market competitiveness in contrast to the rest of the world for no reason.

Most importantly though, if I stood up and lied in front of a court I would get brought up on perjury. If a minister misleads parliament it is very likely that they will lose their position. If a police officer makes a false claim in a report they are in some serious hot water, however the prime minister went into the last election and blatantly lied to the entire country and nothing happens. If she wants the tax she needs a mandate. It's very simple.

 

[Azure]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

Didn't mean to lock the thread. Keeps happening.

Track pad on this laptop is unbelievably poor (can't wait for new pc to arrive)

Sorry guys.

 

[kaz1]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

I don't support THE carbon tax, the current one is shit, compensating polluters and some emitters are excluded.

 

[funkshen]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

Time will be the acid test of

1) Whether this policy actually achieves any of its goals (attribution of this to the policies themselves will also be contended)
2) Whether our action precipitated global action (which is already happening anyways)

The nature of this debate does not lend itself to resolution.

 

[Lentern]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

If it wouldn't hurt a fly then you are basically conceding that the tax is utterly useless because the whole point is to cause major polluters discomfort.

Nobody worthwhile is looking to Australia for any form of leadership, let's just be real about that. This is probably, at least in part, why our governments efforts to bring about a global consensus about this issue were futile. Even if we do lower our emissions, it is going to have a negligible effect on the environment. All we would have achieved is lowered market competitiveness in contrast to the rest of the world for no reason.

Most importantly though, if I stood up and lied in front of a court I would get brought up on perjury. If a minister misleads parliament it is very likely that they will lose their position. If a police officer makes a false claim in a report they are in some serious hot water, however the prime minister went into the last election and blatantly lied to the entire country and nothing happens. If she wants the tax she needs a mandate. It's very simple.

She didn't categorically lie, this shock jock sort of hysteria is deeply beneath you, she specifically did not rule out an emission's trading scheme which is what this carbon pricing mechanism is. Furthermore I don't recall anyone telling Bob Hawke and Paul Keating that they needed a mandate to float the dollar, nor did anyone tell John Howard that he needed a mandate to declare war on Iraq and Afghanistan.

And don't try and tie me up with semantics, being a relatively painless pricing mechanism does not equate to it being ineffectual. I specifically said that the exemptions and subsidies were targeted to ensure those potentially placed in any sort of economic turmoil by the ETS will be protected and those capable of enduring its impacts and more feasibly transitioning to a green economy will bear the brunt of it's impact. Find me a single high rung scientist aside from Ian Plimer who says it's impact will be negligible?

 

[SnowFox]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

Im sorry, but i find it futile to try and lower our emissions when the earth keeps farting its own greenhouse gases.

 

[SylviaB]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

profesor bob carter

dont know who is is but google suggests he thinks it would have negligable impact

 

[Lentern]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

profesor bob carter

dont know who is is but google suggests he thinks it would have negligable impact

I heard he has sex with horses

 

[Chemical Ali]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

profesor bob carter

dont know who is is but google suggests he thinks it would have negligable impact

a liar ('no warming in the last decade')

funded by Big Coal

 

[effylove]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

heh

 

[MysteryGenius]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

heh

i don't think this will ever get old

 

[Chemical Ali]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

http://www.desmogblog.com/australia-gets-price-carbon-despite-toxic-anti-science-campaign

THEY paid millions of dollars for adverts on television, in newspapers and online. They flew in climate change deniers from across the globe. They held rallies, engaged prominent right-wing media personalities, threatened scientists and turned the cold non-partisan findings of peer-reviewed science into some kind of blood sport.

But despite what was surely the dirtiest and most dishonest campaign ever waged before the Australian public, from next July major industrial emitters of greenhouse gases (about 500 of them) will have to pay $23 for every tonne of their pollution under laws passed earlier today.

The torrent of self-interest, archaic so-called "free-market" ideology and unmitigated greenhouse gas pollution, will give way to modest payments for the right to continue to pollute, while placing billions into funds to finance clean energy projects.

feels good, man

 

[Lolsmith]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

pollution is the result of the free market you heard it here first

I reckon the free market would lead to renewable sources (maybe not necessarily sooner) on its own since it would be a definitely cheaper and more efficient option, the current technology just doesn't produce the same sort of output that is required for most things that fossil fuels can do

Imagine energy that you don't need inputs for

 

[SylviaB]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

dishonesty lmao

[youtube]FUeW-k6czLM&start=103[/youtube]

 

[cosmo kramer]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

its kind of funny saying that when communist countries were notoriously heavy polluters

who remembers though when the larouchians went on about how the environmentalist movement is rooted in the eugenics movement and nazism

the funny thing is that is actually kind of true

madison grant for example

Grant was a close friend of several U.S. presidents, including Theodore Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover, and also was an avid conservationist. He is credited with saving many natural species from extinction, and co-founded the Save-the-Redwoods League with Frederick Russell Burnham, John C. Merriam, and Henry Fairfield Osborn in 1918. He is also credited with helping develop the first deer hunting laws in New York state, legislation which spread to other states as well over time.

He was also the creator of wildlife management, helped to found the Bronx Zoo, build the Bronx River Parkway, save the American bison as an organizer of the American Bison Society, and helped to create Glacier National Park and Denali National Park. In 1906, as Secretary of the New York Zoological Society, he lobbied to put Ota Benga, a Congolese pygmy, on display alongside apes at the Bronx Zoo.

Throughout the 1920s and 1930s, he served on the boards of many eugenic and philanthropic societies, including the board of trustees at the American Museum of Natural History, a director of the American Eugenics Society, vice president of the Immigration Restriction League, a founding member of the Galton Society, and one of the eight members of the International Committee of Eugenics. He was awarded the gold medal of the Society of Arts and Sciences in 1929. In 1931, the world's largest tree (in Dyerville, California) was dedicated to Grant, Merriam, and Osborn by the California State Board of Parks in recognition for their environmental efforts. A species of caribou was named after Grant as well (Rangifer tarandus granti, also known as Grant's Caribou). He was a member of the Boone and Crockett Club (a big game hunting organization) since 1893, where he was friends with president Theodore Roosevelt. He was head of the New York Zoological Society from 1925 until his death.

Historian Jonathan Spiro has argued that Grant's interests in conservationism and eugenics were not unrelated: both are hallmarks of the early 20th-century Progressive movement, and both assume the need for various types of stewardship over their charges. In Grant's mind, natural resources needed to be conserved for the Nordic Race, to the exclusion of other races. Grant viewed the Nordic race lovingly as he did any of his endangered species, and considered the modern industrial society as infringing just as much on its existence as it did on the redwoods. Like many eugenicists, Grant saw modern civilization as a violation of "survival of the fittest", whether it manifested itself in the over-logging of the forests, or the survival of the poor via welfare or charity.

the nazis were one if not the first governments to pass environmental protection laws

enormous forests were planted in germany

anti pollution laws

etc

 

[boris]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

100% tax
food vouchers
free education
free hospitals
nothing else

utopia

 

[SylviaB]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

we need a dyson sphere

 

[Lolsmith]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

100% tax
food vouchers
free education
free hospitals
nothing else

utopia

fuck off Karl

 

[Chemical Ali]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

dishonesty lmao

[youtube]FUeW-k6czLM&start=103[/youtube]

I'm not watching that shit, but did you post it as an example of something that contains dishonesty, or does its content contain some sort of claims about dishonesty by those advocating action on climate change?

 

[boris]

Re: Carbon tax legislation passes lower house

no guns under that plan of course i dont support it

im just a realist thats where we are headed