Does God exist? (9 Viewers)

[Captain Gh3y]

Good argument, however, I don't believe this applies under unification theory? If all points in the universe are relative then God could occupy all spaces and possess both 1 corner and 4 corners.

Also as a quick edit I didn't *actually* argue for the concept of God as a humanistic reflection of an Omnipotent being, however, once again, this framework is utilising scientific and empirial evidence to debate the existence of a super-natural (non empirically limited) being.

I have no idea, i just copied and pasted that from timecube

 

[pinkyforce7]

"god is not of our realm you cant disprove or prove him with science" then fair enough, god obviously doesnt want us to know about his existence, we wont be able to prove anything about him, any of his qualities, which religion is 'true' if such a thing is even possible, and the question of gods existence becomes meaningless.

why postulate a god which can't be proved/disproved which doesnt do anything, doesnt interact with our world because he doesnt leave a trace, or cant even be tested? you might as well say it doesnt exist. is this not the thought process you use when someone says there are invisible dragons in your room? "mate, youre right. i cant disprove the dragons, theres a strong possibility they exist" no, you say "thats so unlikely, even if they did it makes no difference because i cant interact with them. to me they dont exist".

Believers in religion claim to be able to communicate with their God(s). In Christianity its called prayer.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Believers in religion claim to be able to communicate with their God(s). In Christianity its called prayer.

So isn't that something we should be able to observe and test?

 

[phatchance]

Hahahahaha. Ahhh gosh. I am just trolling for my own amusement, Kieran is the best guy I've ever known.

PS I am serious about some of the comments I've made, particularly those note about political/economic ideologies, of course I know the difference between a capitalist/communist etc. I am just saying these things because they're funny.

 

[*TRUE*]

*TRUE* we are not willing to discuss against verses (prophecies / commandments etc) in the bible. this thread is not the place for bible verse regurgitation, especially from the message (is that even a real bible lol?) and you wont get much of a serious response if you do so. alot of us have read the bible, and understand your religion and beliefs.

we are more interested in discussing:

1. what evidence is there for gods existence
2. why you believe what you do


i have some questions for you:

1. why do you believe a god exists?
2. why do you believe the bibles truth over any other religious text?

for question 1, if you say something along the lines of "because the world is so complex, and couldnt be a result of chance or come from nothing at all". we can talk about what i, and many others believe in this thread (evolution). if you ever asked yourself:

why is science so right about the world, yet so wrong with evolution?
what evidence is there for evolution?
isnt evolution just a "theory"?

these are some points we can talk about. until you understand our perspective on things i dont think you will get far with bible quotes.

Sorry I think i missed this earlier...
3Unitz , Im sorry if i am wrong , but i think i DO understand your perspective. I think though , that you may not understand mine.
My beliefs are not based on the human reasoning and logic that you and others are using to disprove/ question God's existence.
God is not a part of my life because I have looked at all the human knowledge available and think His existance is the most logical answer.
There are too many things i cannot fathom and too many seeming contradictions and arguements....were i to take this approach I think i would come to the conclusion that i could never be conclusively sure of anything..or that everything was dependent on unknown factors.
God is a part of my life because i have chosen to have faith in Him and in His Word ( yes , i think the bible is Gods word).
In the bible, I can see that faith is very important to God , so much so that he says it is impossible to please Him without it.
How could we develop this important characteristic if there were no opportunity? God requires our faith.
So in answer to your two questions: Faith.

 

[*TRUE*]

So isn't that something we should be able to observe and test?

No , I dont personally think so. Prayer is having faith that someone is listening. I dont hear a booming voice from heaven telling me that they get where im coming from.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things NOT SEEN.
I dont think you can observe and test faith. Except maybe if you want to think of those that give up their lives for faith....but im sure you can come up with other reasons why people would do that. So i guess no , you cant observe it , or test it.
Only God can

 

[HalcyonSky]

so why the hell do all you christians pray for things like the healing of a horrendous mouth cancer on one of ur christian counterparts, if it makes absolutely no difference and thus there is no observable change that can be measured or tested?

 

[scarybunny]

so, *TRUE*, what's the point of praying for things like, say, the healing of a horrendous mouth cancer on some devout christian, if it makes absolutely no difference and thus there is no observable change that can be measured or tested?

I'm pretty sure people have actually studied this.

There was some amusing result but I can't remember what. Google it, yo and then tell us.

 

[HalcyonSky]

I'm pretty sure people have actually studied this.

There was some amusing result but I can't remember what. Google it, yo and then tell us.

there's been plenty of studies on prayer, the findings are astounding: it does jack shit. Other studies conclude that god only heals when people aren't looking. I will turn this water to wine, just, turn around for a second and close your eyes.

 

[scarybunny]

there's been plenty of studies on prayer, all of them conclude that it does jack shit.

Yeah but I think I remember one saying that if you tell someone you're praying for them they're less likely to get better.

Can't remember.

But yes. WHERE CAN WE GET THESE PLACEBOS? MAYBE THERE"S SOME IN THIS TRUCK!

 

[*TRUE*]

so, *TRUE*, what's the point of praying for things like, say, the healing of a horrendous mouth cancer on some devout christian, if it makes absolutely no difference and thus there is no observable change that can be measured or tested?

Id pray for that , and have faith that God heard me.
What I dont know , is why some people are healed , why others are not.
Ive heard of many people saying that they have prayed for healing or help and recieved it.....and i have had that experience many times too
So i guess the observable change would be the difference , but I do know that God does not act as a fairy Godmother , granting all our wishes int he way we ask him too

 

[scarybunny]

So sometimes things go your way and sometimes they don't?

If you wished to a fairy godmother, would things be any different?

 

[*TRUE*]

So sometimes things go your way and sometimes they don't?

If you wished to a fairy godmother, would things be any different?

Logically speaking i cant prove a thing.
I think God has always worked for the best good in my life, but i know that what happens in my life isnt dependent only on the decisions i make.
God gave freedom of choice to everyone , not just me. Bad things happen to good people.
I think often too , that God answers prayers differently to the way people think he will.
He tells us to pray according to his will.

 

[HalcyonSky]

this thread is like perpetual dejavu

why does god heal self absorbed middle classed white girls of that STD they got whilst making themselves a valuable member of society, but not that amputee from Laos who migrated to australia, became a christian and a regular church-goer, who then lost his parents and both his brothers in a callous house robbery, had both his eyes gouged out in the same attack, and is now in a state of catatonic depression where he prays over and over in his own mind every day for god to just grant him one day of happiness?

This matter has already been discussed, but, what do you have to say about it *TRUE* ?

 

[HalcyonSky]

yea go offline to avoid the question. that's what i thought.

 

[pinkyforce7]

ok, say i hear god talk to me, i still have to apply a rational and logical thought process to what is actually happening. i still have to ask myself if i am mistaking the phenomenon with something which is really 'of science' (eg. schizophrenia?). the fact that millions of people experience this, all claiming to be communicating with different gods, tells me at least someone is wrong with their beliefs; they cant all be right because they all claim differently. so what is one way i can tell if i have indeed experienced god, or if i unfortunately have schizophrenia?

you have raised a very good point. I personally don't know. i'm not for or against theism and don't have any personal experience of schizophrenia or interacting with 'god'. As you said, it is logical to think that experiencing 'god' could just be some form of hallucination or human created episode. however there are alot of unseen aspects and so called 'evidence' of god's existence. for example, Florida has recently seen a christian revival where there have been claims of over 20 people being miraculously raised from the dead. I go to a private christian school and i hear pastors and christians telling news like this all the time. Now, this particular example could be made up propaganda, or exaggerations of the truth, or sheer coincidence that these people have been revived. The point im trying to make is that noone knows everyones personal experience with god whether it being a human construct or a genuine experience.

And yes, the fact that millions of people all claim to communicate with different Gods does show inconsistency in belief. religion is a human construct. however this should not effect the plausibility of the existence of a supernatural being. What if perchance all religion is wrong and that 'god' is not like any human conception. God could perhaps effect people regardless of their personal beliefs being correct or not.

or perhaps god doesnt exist, noone can be certain.

 

[*TRUE*]

yea go offline to avoid the question. that's what i thought.

No. I was going to have a shower and go to bed actually.
I dont know the answer. Like i already said.

 

[HalcyonSky]

No. I was going to have a shower and go to bed actually.
I dont know the answer. Like i already said.

 

[Slidey]

Hahahahaha. Ahhh gosh. I am just trolling for my own amusement, Kieran is the best guy I've ever known.

PS I am serious about some of the comments I've made, particularly those note about political/economic ideologies, of course I know the difference between a capitalist/communist etc. I am just saying these things because they're funny.

Damn, now the thread's boring again. Oh well, GG.

 

[boris]

No God teases us with such a deliciously stupid person, only for them to be a troll.

THUS in conclusion;

God does not exist