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Does God exist? (1 Viewer)

do you believe in god?


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Frostbitten

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Well obviously it was a satirical, replace Coco Pops with something more serious and you have basically every need in the world being compared to religion
Water, cars etc etc
Yes, I knew it was satire, it just didn't really work. But anyway, basic objects required for our survival and productive capabilities don't face the same type of resistance to being criticised that religion does. Therefore it stands to reason that you can't really equate them.
 

chrissyomenko

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Kaz1

It merely quoting the bible on the general topic of the forum not meant to be a specific attack as I don't know even who you are
As for loving thy neighbour, we are called to "speak the truth in love" Ephesians 4:15 and the bible is the truth "(God's) Word is truth" John 17:17
 
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kaz1

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Kaz1

It merely quoting the bible on the general topic of the forum not meant to be a specific attack as I don't know even who you are
As for loving thy neighbour, we are called to "speak the truth in love" Ephesians 4:15 and the bible is the truth "(God's) Word is truth" John 17:17
well your post came right after I ripped on god, christianity and jesus
 

Sy123

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God of the gaps.

Many things that were thought to be designed in the past, now have clear explanation.

The earth itself is a complex physical system, but models of planetary accretion and geology are sound, it can all emerge without design.

There is never going to be a fossil record of the evolution of the earliest single cell organisms, so there is very little data to go on. Everything we do have fossil records on shows that increasing complexity and specialisation does emerge naturally, without a designer.

To follow your 'factory' metaphor, your dubious hypothesis is that only god could have built a sprocket factory, but this has turned into a bentley continental gt factory without any further intervention from a designer. Does that sound plausible?
Not God of the gaps, according to what is known I am drawing the conclusion of design, not according to what is unknown. It is not 'I can't explain the origin of the cell, therefore God', it is, 'the cell bears likeness to design just as our factories and software programs bare likeness to design, I can then only conclude that the cell is designed by a designer', combine this with the Fine Tuning of the universe and we have everything pointing to God. The simple fact of the matter is, the cell itself let alone the conditions of the universe, point to a designer. You are steering the conversation from the origin of the first cell to its advancements.

The supposed "mutations" are irrelevant since we are talking about the abiogenesis of the situation which is what is important.
 

Graney

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Why does the origin of the first cell point to a designer,

but the later increasing sophistication and diversity of cell types and function does not require a designer?

It seems like a valid question. You insist that a 'factory' analogy is valid. Well do you believe a biscuit factory can turn into a bentley factory without a designer?

sy123 said:
it is, 'the cell bears likeness to design just as our factories and software programs bare likeness to design, I can then only conclude that the cell is designed by a designer',
Why does only the simplest features of cell bear a likeness to design (in your opinion), but increasingly sophisticated features of cells which are demonstrably naturally emergent, do not bear a necessary likeness to design? Why do you consider the differences between plants and animals simple enough 'mutations' that they don't bear resemblance to design?
 

Spiritual Being

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But why does something that resembles human design point absolutely to the existence of a designer, when really all humans are is just a result of the extremely complex biological, and more fundamentally, chemical processes, that you're suggesting had design input? Simply because the universe itself has (eventually) given rise to a species that later went on to create certain mechanisms (going with the factory analogy here) that resemble aspects of cellular life, does that really suggest that there must have been a designer?

I think it's a bit of a leap to say that just because a cell bears some likeness to a designed mechanism in terms of its complexity, it must have been designed. Nowhere in the theory of evolution is design a factor so it really makes no sense to say that life began by a means that completely defies the tendencies that all life everywhere on earth exhibits. The fact that there was an adequately complex precursor to life suggests that the very first cells themselves were formed by a similar "survival of the fittest" process rather than active design input.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Life is a coincidence.

We're all accidents.

We all have no hope or greater purpose.
 

kaz1

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Life is a coincidence.

We're all accidents.

We all have no hope or greater purpose.
What is wrong with this? If the chance of life was even 1/trillion there would still be life in billions of planets. Humans are not special we are just another life for. Your hope and greater purpose is all about you, your choices and what you decide to do with this life not some made up afterlife which may or may not exist (it doesn't exist). You live for this life not for life after death.

Some people really find it hard to believe that humans are not anything special after studying evolutions and refuse to believe that humans evolved from primitive apes. It's probably because they've been indoctrinated all their life that humans are special, made in god's image and the best of god's image and destined for glory in heaven (I used to believe this bullshit as well).
 

Spiritual Being

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What is wrong with this? If the chance of life was even 1/trillion there would still be life in billions of planets. Humans are not special we are just another life for. Your hope and greater purpose is all about you, your choices and what you decide to do with this life not some made up afterlife which may or may not exist (it doesn't exist). You live for this life not for life after death.

Some people really find it hard to believe that humans are not anything special after studying evolutions and refuse to believe that humans evolved from primitive apes. It's probably because they've been indoctrinated all their life that humans are special, made in god's image and the best of god's image and destined for glory in heaven (I used to believe this bullshit as well).
So I should disbelieve all of these signposts (which you haven't responded to by the way) in the bible which point to God's existence, and believe something circumstantial (fine), yet completely illogical.

Wooo look at me I'm an atheist - I'm an accident - I'm on this earth for no broader reason and I know this, why? Because I've died, resurrected and now I live to tell the tale. That's right. I'm Jesus Christ himself. An atheist version, at least.

Yes, someone baptise me into atheism now! *sarcasm* (r u the facilitator of baptism kaz)
 

kaz1

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So I should disbelieve all of these signposts (which you haven't responded to by the way) in the bible which point to God's existence, and believe something circumstantial (fine), yet completely illogical.

Wooo look at me I'm an atheist - I'm an accident - I'm on this earth for no broader reason and I know this, why? Because I've died, resurrected and now I live to tell the tale. That's right. I'm Jesus Christ himself. An atheist version, at least.

Yes, someone baptise me into atheism now! *sarcasm* (r u the facilitator of baptism kaz)
The bible is full of fairytales and absurdies that cannot possibly be true like a talking snake, the story of Noah's ark, talking donkeys, the earth being flat, the solar system being geocentric, a man living in a whale and the universe being created in 7 days. Some brilliant signposts that god exists. The fact that these supernatural phenomenon or evidence of these evidence phenomenon cannot be observed today, it is completely illogical to believe in the bible due to the fact that there is so much fucking bullshit in there. Also see my earlier post.
http://community.boredofstudies.org/214/news-current-affairs-politics/106355/does-god-exist-671.html#post6546182

Life may well be an accident, I have no problem with this at all. Resurrection is literally impossible, I do not believe that happened to Jesus. Also the gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus, I don't think Matthew, Mark, Luke or John were even alive during the time of Jesus (may be wrong about this) and the fact that the story of Jesus is strikingly similar to many other gods in the past makes believing in him very questionable.

Atheism isn't a religion, it's a lack of a religion. There is no ritualistic bullshit. You become an atheist out of your own realisation.
 

Spiritual Being

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The bible is full of fairytales and absurdies that cannot possibly be true like a talking snake, the story of Noah's ark, talking donkeys, the earth being flat, the solar system being geocentric, a man living in a whale and the universe being created in 7 days. Some brilliant signposts that god exists. The fact that these supernatural phenomenon or evidence of these evidence phenomenon cannot be observed today, it is completely illogical to believe in the bible due to the fact that there is so much fucking bullshit in there. Also see my earlier post.
http://community.boredofstudies.org/214/news-current-affairs-politics/106355/does-god-exist-671.html#post6546182

Life may well be an accident, I have no problem with this at all. Resurrection is literally impossible, I do not believe that happened to Jesus. Also the gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus, I don't think Matthew, Mark, Luke or John were even alive during the time of Jesus (may be wrong about this) and the fact that the story of Jesus is strikingly similar to many other gods in the past makes believing in him very questionable.

Atheism isn't a religion, it's a lack of a religion. There is no ritualistic bullshit. You become an atheist out of your own realisation.
Of course there are some weird things in the bible. We see them as weird because of changing thought over thousands of years. That still doesn't refute the evidence I provided which points directly to a greater being inspiring the word of the bible.

I was actually reading a few websites ages ago which said that those gods postdate Christianity and Jesus. So where's your proof that they do predate them? I'd like to see it. Or is it just like the bible and your confusion there, "but let's just believe they predate christianity and jesus because it makes my argument look better".

I think what you're having the greatest trouble with is understanding that a greater being has divine powers. If you saw God now, it seems like you'd almost question how he has divine powers. That's an impossibility in your eyes for some reason. Well, he's a god. If Christ is derivative and consequent of him and is fully divine/fully human, then it's absolutely plausible that he can manipulate physical laws.

You also say that the gospels were written decades after, then say you may be wrong. Well what's the value of that statement if there's such room for error and no proof provided? It's valueless.

If this atheistic realisation requires me to neglect the affirmative (it does) then I don't wanna be a part of it.
 
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kaz1

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Of course there are some weird things in the bible. We see them as weird because of changing thought over thousands of years. That still doesn't refute the evidence I provided which points directly to a greater being inspiring the word of the bible.

I was actually reading a few websites ages ago which said that those gods postdate Christianity and Jesus. So where's your proof that they do predate them? I'd like to see it. Or is it just like the bible and your confusion there, "but let's just believe they predate christianity and jesus because it makes my argument look better".

I think what you're having the greatest trouble with is understanding that a greater being has divine powers. If you saw God now, it seems like you'd almost question how he has divine powers. That's an impossibility in your eyes for some reason. Well, he's a god. If Christ is derivative and consequent of him and is fully divine/fully human, then it's absolutely plausible that he can manipulate physical laws.

You also say that the gospels were written decades after, then say you may be wrong. Well what's the value of that statement if there's such room for error and no proof provided? It's valueless.

If this atheistic realisation requires me to neglect the affirmative (it does) then I don't wanna be a part of it.
A greater being inspired the bible that is why the great majority of it is "weird". If a text contains any of that bullshit all of it should be discarded immediately.

Gods that predate Jesus:
Here's some enlightening information into Christianity.

Horus was an Ancient Egyptian god. Horus was the son of god, there is some conflict to the idea that he was born of a virgin. He was baptised in a river, he was tempted in the desert, he healed the sick, cured the blind, cast out demons, walked on water. He also raised someone called Lazarus from the dead. He also had 12 disciples and he was crucified and he rose from the dead after 3 days.

Krishna is a hindu god. Krishna was the son of god, he was sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man. He was also called the saviour, his adopted father was a human and a carpenter. At birth he was visited by wise men and shepards guided by a star. He was born without sin and he was regarded as human and divine. He performed many miracles including curing disease including curing a leper. He also cast out demons and raised the dead. He had disciples to spread his teachings. He was described as merciful and criticised for associating with sinners. He had a last supper and he also forgave his enemies. He descended into hell and was resurected. Many people also witnessed Krishna's ascension into heaven.

Mithra was a Roman god. Mithra was a saviour, he was sent to earth to live as a mortal. He also died for our sins so that sinners can have everlasting life. He was also resurrected from the dead. He was also born of a virgin on December 25. He was also born in a manger with lots of shepards and he was reffered to "as the light of the world". He also had 12 disciples and they had a last supper before he died. Romans used to have symbolic meals of his flesh and blood. Pictures of him depicted a halo on his head. The headquarters for his worship were at the Vatican hill in Rome.

All of these gods predate Jesus and Christianity.
Divine powers do not make sense and are not natural, there has not been any scientific experiment or reasoning verifying the supernatural. Believing in god makes as much sense believing in the tooth fairy, monsters, flying unicorns and santa claus. All of these creatures are existing are impossible just like god.

The only part I said I might be wrong about was if they were alive during the time of Jesus, they might have been 5 years old or something. There is lots of proof that the gospels were written decades later.
 

Spiritual Being

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A greater being inspired the bible that is why the great majority of it is "weird". If a text contains any of that bullshit all of it should be discarded immediately.

Nooooooooooooooooooo

This is where your argument falls apart (yes, as soon as it started). If there's evidence in the bible which can only be there if it's inspired by a greater being, just because anything else is portrayed in there DOES NOT eliminate the existence of a greater. The evidence is in independent of any other assertion you make.

Gods that predate Jesus:
LOL!!!!!!!!!

You still haven't provided any evidence, any scholarly dating, anything which says they predate Jesus. That's like saying to the mcdonalds guy "can I have a big mac" and he gives you fries.

And that's greatly exaggerated. Horus wasn't born of a virgin. IIRC, it was something to the effect of Isis hovering over a self-created erect penis and conceiving Horus. Even with my little research, your assertions are greatly questionable. Horus also had four disciples and a group of 16 followers or something like that, not 12 disciples. Lol...

Divine powers do not make sense and are not natural, there has not been any scientific experiment or reasoning verifying the supernatural. Believing in god makes as much sense believing in the tooth fairy, monsters, flying unicorns and santa claus. All of these creatures are existing are impossible just like god.
|

hahahahahahahahahahahhaha

> We can't create a god through science or a being who can manipulate physical laws (obviously that rejects the whole idea of God anyway because he resides beyond the metaphysical dimensions of the universe and can thus control it)
> Therefore God doesn't exist because we can't create supernatural powers ourselves
> Let me throw in the tooth fairy for maximum rhetorical effect
> My argument still makes no sense
> Fuck
> It's also valentines day. That somehow disproves the existence of God.
> Fuck

The only part I said I might be wrong about was if they were alive during the time of Jesus, they might have been 5 years old or something. There is lots of proof that the gospels were written decades later.
That's all circumstantial. Even if I were to believe what you're formulating of thin air, a five year old can still understand a story.
> There's lots of circumstantial proof that the gospels were written decades later
> Therefore, let's just treat it as conclusive
> If we don't, my argument has no weight and we're back to square one
 

kaz1

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I don't understand why all types of magic are absurd except for god. Gawwd is real brah.
 

Spiritual Being

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You can't recreate something that doesn't exist. That wouldn't make sense.
Let me quote you.

Divine powers do not make sense and are not natural, there has not been any scientific experiment or reasoning verifying the supernatural.
An experiment which recreates God is just a manifestation of what you said.

inb4 typo

inb4 I was actually referencing flappy bird

inb4 god was controlling my actions.. oh wait..

n god does exist cos u cant refute what i said

inb4 rhetoric

inb4 bullshit

inb4 no response

inb4 my point stands again
 
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kaz1

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Let me quote you.



An experiment which recreates God is just a manifestation of what you said.

inb4 typo

inb4 I was actually referencing flappy bird

inb4 god was controlling my actions.. oh wait..
jesus fuck do you even know any science

experiment doesn't mean recreating god
 

tumtoom

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Is God real?
Maybe.. maybe not
Its true one cannot truly use a religious text to prove if God is real, but at the same time can anyone really prove God isn't real?
 
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