Does God exist? (1 Viewer)

[Fade Away]

Perspective based.

 

[Fonzie32]

I'm not religious and not an athiest. I believe it's not good to curse at people, do silly things etc, but I don't believe there's a "God". I respect peoples religious beliefs and views.

I'm more a Science man myself and believe in Evolution. Science and Religion can never work together so you believe what you want to believe.

 

[Absolutezero]

I'm not religious and not an athiest. I believe it's not good to curse at people, do silly things etc, but I don't believe there's a "God". I respect peoples religious beliefs and views.

I'm more a Science man myself and believe in Evolution. Science and Religion can never work together so you believe what you want to believe.

If you don't believe in a god, you're an atheist. That's all atheism is, a position on the belief in god. Anything else is just extra baggage.

 

[c0okies]

I'm not religious and not an athiest. I believe it's not good to curse at people, do silly things etc, but I don't believe there's a "God". I respect peoples religious beliefs and views.

I'm Xmore a Science man myself and believe in Evolution. Science and Religion can never work together so you believe what you want to believe.

You could say science is an observation of God's work



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[someth1ng]

You could say science is an observation of God's work



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No, you can't.

 

[SylviaB]

ahahahahaha

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9091007/Slaves-at-the-root-of-the-fortune-that-created-Richard-Dawkins-family-estate.html

 

[Queenroot]

ahahahahaha

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9091007/Slaves-at-the-root-of-the-fortune-that-created-Richard-Dawkins-family-estate.html

It seems an angry journalist wrote this.

But surely his ancestors were religious?

 

[FlyingKanga]

No, you can't.

Yes you can. All the laws of the universe consist of predefined values such as the speed of light being 299 792 458 m / s, gravity being affected by the mass of a planet etc. This indicates a programmer/creator to me.

Next point. From the Big bang up til human civilization, there have been so many chain events and if one thing went wrong, we wouldn't be here or would be extremely asymmetrical, weird creatures. For example, the human genome itself would have been impossible to form with no major flaws if there was no sustainer. All these laws and processes have integrated with each other to create a stable, life-sustaining universe.

Also, notice how reptiles, birds and amphibians have been living for over 150 million years and are still instinctive creatures. Yet we're been here for 2.5 million years and are capable of intelligence. This indicates divine intervention to me. I'm not denying natural selection. You know how you all say "natural selection did it?" Why has natural selection been given an ego as if it was an intelligent entity. How does natural selection know that animal X can't eat reach these plants so let's extend it's neck? The intelligent entity is god.

 

[SylviaB]

Yes you can. All the laws of the universe consist of predefined values such as the speed of light being 299 792 458 m / s, gravity being affected by the mass of a planet etc. This indicates a programmer/creator to me.

Things have properties and these properties cause the things to interact in a certain, constant way and these interactions can be described by laws.

Its not evidence of a "designer", and in any case god could have easily created a universe where nothing has a "predefined value" and still have it work personally fine.

Next point. From the Big bang up til human civilization, there have been so many chain events and if one thing went wrong, we wouldn't be here or would be extremely asymmetrical, weird creatures.

This is an anthropocentric view of reality. You presuppose humans, when a universe without them wouldn't be unusual at all.

It's only through our existence that we are able to contemplate the luck of our existence. If we hadn't emerged, there would no be no one around to notice that humans didn't emerge.

For example, the human genome itself would have been impossible to form with no major flaws if there was no sustainer. All these laws and processes have integrated with each other to create a stable, life-sustaining universe.

Uh, no. The point of natural selection is that it gets rid of the bad stuff.

Why has natural selection been given an ego as if it was an intelligent entity. How does natural selection know that animal X can't eat reach these plants so let's extend it's neck? The intelligent entity is god.

christ almighty you are fucking clueless


evolution didn't "stretch their necks".

due to random variations in their genetics, some organisms of a species were born with slightly longer necks. Some shorter, too.

the ones with longer necks were able to better reach food and this provided them with a slight advantage over their normal and short necked peers, and so they contributed their longer-neck genes more strongly to the neck generation's genepool and this repeated until all organisms of that species had the "longer" neck. And this process repeated and repeated until the costs of a even longer neck outweighed any benefits, and the necks stopped goriwng with successive generations.

No intelligent entity necessary. I understand god creating everything as is, and I understand god providing the building blocks and letting evolution run its course. But why on earth would god "guide" evolution when he could allow it to proceed without his intervention or bypass it completely.

 

[Sy123]

Things have properties and these properties cause the things to interact in a certain, constant way and these interactions can be described by laws.

Its not evidence of a "designer", and in any case god could have easily created a universe where nothing has a "predefined value" and still have it work personally fine.

Why does it matter that God could create a universe not finely tuned, it completely side-steps the fact that design implies a designer.

This is an anthropocentric view of reality. You presuppose humans, when a universe without them wouldn't be unusual at all.

It's only through our existence that we are able to contemplate the luck of our existence. If we hadn't emerged, there would no be no one around to notice that humans didn't emerge.

Anthropic Principle has been completely discredited buddy

Just because only a universe that is fine tuned for observers can have observers in it, then it doesn't follow that such a universe would not be immensely improbable for it to exist.

 

[FlyingKanga]

Things have properties and these properties cause the things to interact in a certain, constant way and these interactions can be described by laws.

Its not evidence of a "designer", and in any case god could have easily created a universe where nothing has a "predefined value" and still have it work personally fine.

No it wouldn't, everything would be screwed up. We'd be asymmetrical creatures if God didn't program the way natural selection and evolution worked. If gravity wasn't defined then we wouldn't be sitting on our bums debating this. I can't really think of any examples but a lot of these processes need to be programmed in order for the universe to function properly.

This is an anthropocentric view of reality. You presuppose humans, when a universe without them wouldn't be unusual at all.

It's only through our existence that we are able to contemplate the luck of our existence. If we hadn't emerged, there would no be no one around to notice that humans didn't emerge.

Sy123 answered that, I couldn't have said it better.

Uh, no. The point of natural selection is that it gets rid of the bad stuff.
christ almighty you are fucking clueless
I thought you were an Atheist? Either way, rude insults aren't going to establish your argument.

evolution didn't "stretch their necks".

due to random variations in their genetics, some organisms of a species were born with slightly longer necks. Some shorter, too.

the ones with longer necks were able to better reach food and this provided them with a slight advantage over their normal and short necked peers, and so they contributed their longer-neck genes more strongly to the neck generation's genepool and this repeated until all organisms of that species had the "longer" neck. And this process repeated and repeated until the costs of a even longer neck outweighed any benefits, and the necks stopped goriwng with successive generations.

No intelligent entity necessary. I understand god creating everything as is, and I understand god providing the building blocks and letting evolution run its course. But why on earth would god "guide" evolution when he could allow it to proceed without his intervention or bypass it completely.

Notice stick insects. Why are they the same colour as the habitat they live in. How do they know that in order to survive, they need to be green and stick onto that green plant over there. They don't know, and neither do the forces of natural selection and evolution know what to do. You misunderstood me on saying God guides natural selection and evolution. He has programmed it like I've mentioned with the others. He intervenes rarely with cases such as giving humans intelligence which you still haven't answered on why humans have achieved intelligence, conscience and are subjective while animals don't.

 

[blewis3021]

I'd have to say you're absolutely crazy to believe in any sort of superhuman being.

I mean really, think about it, just for 30 seconds, people think it fathomable to talk to, confess to, and discuss a figment of imagination all because it was written in a book 1500 years ago or 1800 years ago depending on which ever mainstream religion you may follow.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Things have properties and these properties cause the things to interact in a certain, constant way and these interactions can be described by laws.

Its not evidence of a "designer", and in any case god could have easily created a universe where nothing has a "predefined value" and still have it work personally fine.



This is an anthropocentric view of reality. You presuppose humans, when a universe without them wouldn't be unusual at all.

It's only through our existence that we are able to contemplate the luck of our existence. If we hadn't emerged, there would no be no one around to notice that humans didn't emerge.



Uh, no. The point of natural selection is that it gets rid of the bad stuff.




christ almighty you are fucking clueless


evolution didn't "stretch their necks".

due to random variations in their genetics, some organisms of a species were born with slightly longer necks. Some shorter, too.

the ones with longer necks were able to better reach food and this provided them with a slight advantage over their normal and short necked peers, and so they contributed their longer-neck genes more strongly to the neck generation's genepool and this repeated until all organisms of that species had the "longer" neck. And this process repeated and repeated until the costs of a even longer neck outweighed any benefits, and the necks stopped goriwng with successive generations.

No intelligent entity necessary. I understand god creating everything as is, and I understand god providing the building blocks and letting evolution run its course. But why on earth would god "guide" evolution when he could allow it to proceed without his intervention or bypass it completely.

Uh no .... Natural selection happens because the environment changes and the conditions .... Not to get rid of the bad stuff.

 

[Queenroot]

 

[SylviaB]

Why does it matter that God could create a universe not finely tuned, it completely side-steps the fact that design implies a designer.

except that the idea that the universe is "designed" is a matter contention

you could tip a bag of marbles on the floor and describe the positions the marbles end up in using some elegant mathematics, doesn't mean that the position of the marbles was predetermined

Just because only a universe that is fine tuned for observers can have observers in it, then it doesn't follow that such a universe would not be immensely improbable for it to exist.

It doesn't matter that its improbable unless you think that the universe is about humans existing

you're still presupposing the existence, nay, the CONCEPT of human life

 

[SylviaB]

No it wouldn't, everything would be screwed up. We'd be asymmetrical creatures if God didn't program the way natural selection and evolution worked. If gravity wasn't defined then we wouldn't be sitting on our bums debating this. I can't really think of any examples but a lot of these processes need to be programmed in order for the universe to function properly.

God could design humans to live in a vacuum if he really wanted, because he is GOD

Notice stick insects. Why are they the same colour as the habitat they live in. How do they know that in order to survive, they need to be green and stick onto that green plant over there. They don't know, and neither do the forces of natural selection and evolution know what to do.

you dont understand evolution at all

ive already fucking explained this

some insects are born, by chance to be different colours than the other insects

some of these different coloured insects blend in more and are better at surviving

this to them living longer and hence reproducing more than the "normal" coloured insects

this is the selection part of natural selection

nobody needs to "know" anything

certain phenotypes are advantageous and so leads individuals with these phenotypes to out-survive and reproduce the other organisms

you misunderstood me on saying God guides natural selection and evolution. He has programmed it like I've mentioned with the others.

But the point of natural selection is that its NATURAL, it doesn't need god.

If god does it, then its not natural selection at all.

natural selection means certain phenotypes being better suited to an environment than others which leads to greater survival and reproduction in organisms with those phenotypes and hence a greater contribution to the genepool

if god selects something, then it has nothing to do with natural selection because it was a decision, not a change resulting from suitability to an environment

 

[SylviaB]

Uh no .... Natural selection happens because the environment changes and the conditions .... Not to get rid of the bad stuff.

What? The reason why we don't have terrible messed up genomes is because phenotypically deleterious mutations are selected against.

 

[Graney]

Also, notice how reptiles, birds and amphibians have been living for over 150 million years and are still instinctive creatures. Yet we're been here for 2.5 million years and are capable of intelligence. This indicates divine intervention to me.

"Crows have become highly skilled at adapting to urban environments. In a Japanese city, carrion crows have discovered how to eat nuts that they usually find too hard to tackle. One method is to drop the nuts from height on to a hard road in the hope of cracking it. Some nuts are particularly tough, so the crows drop the nuts among the traffic. That leaves the problem of eating the bits without getting run over, so some birds wait by pedestrian crossings and collect the cracked nuts when the lights turn red."

[youtube]NenEdSuL7QU[/youtube]

Where is your god now?

 

[Sy123]

except that the idea that the universe is "designed" is a matter contention

Umm what?

It is undisputed that the constants required for the existence of a universe sustainable for life are on a knife's edge of improbability

The dispute comes about whether the constants had come about through pure chance or by design, and its the Fine Tuning argument which proposes that it is design, this comment does nothing to refute any of what I said

you could tip a bag of marbles on the floor and describe the positions the marbles end up in using some elegant mathematics, doesn't mean that the position of the marbles was predetermined

We are not talking about any kind of probability, indeed the probability that I was born to the specific parents that I had would be vaninshingly small like with everyone else, however the argument does not simply rely on "low probability", but rather a low specified probability.

That is, when a highly improbable event is shows a pattern that is independent of the event itself, then chance is ruled out. A pattern is found independent of the event if we can formulate this pattern without any information concerning the event itself.

It doesn't matter that its improbable unless you think that the universe is about humans existing

you're still presupposing the existence, nay, the CONCEPT of human life

What

The specified probability still exists even if we don't, I don't see how I'm pre-supposing anything, or how this comment has anything to do with the formally defined Fine-Tuning Argument

 

[Queenroot]

Even if god does exist he/she/it is an asshole. End of story.