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Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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SylviaB

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Muslim scientists cannot be held accountable for such scientific discoveries simply because they did not discover anything. They cannot claim what they believe to be the word of God as something that they have discovered. They did not carry the experiments the Christian scientists who started from scratch e.g quantum stuff
But muslim scientists exist, and they conducted experiments and published various findings. I'm not saying they should have taken the words in the quran and published it as their own research. I am saying, given the "knowledge" they gained from the Quran, they should have had an insurmountable advantage over Christian scientists in being able to form the scientific explanation of the knowledge revealed in the Quran. They did experiments, so why didn't they do the right experiments like Christians?

If you say they had no need, then first of all, again, they were doing experiments and trying to work stuff out, so it's not like they resigned themselves to being satisfied by the "knowledge" gained from the Quran. Secondly, muslims were able to do very little with all this supposed knowledge in terms of making advances in fields like technology and medicine. Even when they did make some progress, this was disproportionately a result of secular Persian thinkers, which is the opposite of what we should expect if Islam is providing knowledge.

As long as the meanings are derived from the possible meanings set in the original Arabic, then our understanding will not be wrong. The Quran matches the observable facts of the universe. It takes to the limit of people’s knowledge through its word usage, to match the people that understood it 1400 years ago and to also match the observations of future generations. This is evident through the “clot” scenario too.
Yeah, no. You're clearly not being objective here. You believe Islam is true, therefore you assume the Quran must be true and rationalise anything to justify your belief.

The Qur’an in the above verse implies to make something rooted; to anchor; or, to fix something firmly not allowing that to move freely in which it has been fixed. The earth has different layers and by fixing the earth’s crust they prevent any sliding over the magma layer or amongst the layers themselves. In short, the mountains can be compared to the nails holding various strips of wood together. The earth revolves quickly around its own axis, were it not for the fixing effect of the mountains, these plaques would shift and shock the earth. In such an event, the life would be impossible.
Yeah, see, this kind of shit is just absurd. Allah is all powerful. He doesn't need to put 'pegs' in the ground. He could easily have designed the world such that it doesn't need pegs. Under Islam, nothing is "impossible" for allah. The fact that earth has tectonic plates that move around is a result of how he chose to design the earth. He didn't need to use anything to hold them in place, he simply could have decided that they don't move, full stop.

This is breath-takingly obvious examples of muslims taking the world the way it is and then coming up with explanations that are consistent with their ideology. Of course, it makes no sense that Allah's design is subject to laws of physics that we must overcome. HE created those laws in the first place.

Mountains “float” on the denser mantle but they are “fixed” in the sense of isostasy.
Mountains are a result of tectonic plates colliding with each other. To say they stop the plates moving around is to say that a wall stops cars from driving too quickly.


Finally, I just wanted to make it clear that all the purpose of me writing on this thread is not to “convert” anyone. It does not bother me whether you choose to believe in god or not.
I "choose" to not believe in god in the same way I "choose" to not to believe 1 + 1 =3, which is to say, not at all. I could not "choose" to believe either of these things even if my life depended on it.

If you have noticed, the only reason I contribute to this thread is when I see a misconception of Islam being spread. I do not try and find fault in any other religion, and when i do question atheism it is never in a disrespectful manner. Because all I want to do is highlight how while you may not agree with something, other people (e.g me) do find reason in it and this difference is no excuse for spreading irrational fear and hatred.
There is NOTHING irrational or hateful in this thread as far as myself or other talking about Islam. It is on the other hand profoundly irrational to believe in god on the basis of the Quran or any other religious text. It is profoundly rational to be opposed to the spread of Islam, given the backward and hateful behavior of muslims all across the globe.

There is nothing disrespectful about pointing out your religion is completely incompatible with science.

This is my last response on this thread.
Of course it is. You don't like the fact that somebody pointed out the holes in your backward, irrational ideology, so you run away.
 

totally_screwed

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Of course it is. You don't like the fact that somebody pointed out the holes in your backward, irrational ideology, so you run away.
yeah you win congratulations. it's not really running away, it's more like not wasting time on a thread that couldn't arrive to a conclusion after 922 pages of conversation

having an atheist point out the holes in this backward, irrational ideology won't change what the adherents believe

having adherents defend this backward, irrational ideology won't change what the atheists believe

both parties are adamant, wrong in the eyes of the other, so somebody is gonna have to call it quits and withdraw from a futile argument
 

Squar3root

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yeah you win congratulations. it's not really running away, it's more like not wasting time on a thread that couldn't arrive to a conclusion after 922 pages of conversation

having an atheist point out the holes in this backward, irrational ideology won't change what the adherents believe

having adherents defend this backward, irrational ideology won't change what the atheists believe

both parties are adamant, wrong in the eyes of the other, so somebody is gonna have to call it quits and withdraw from a futile argument
so pretty much at the end of the day it's just a belief and everyone has the right to believe whatever they want.

if i wanna believe in santa and the tooth fairy i should be able to and everyone needs to respect that
 

Squar3root

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just a questions for the ones left on the thread,

why should we believe in a god when there are muslims out there who smoke/drink/gamble/drugs/etc but they are adamant they are muslim and are following the religion?

like if didn't follow the rules of a club, I would get kicked off the club. is there a similar thing to kick mulims acting like this "out of the club"
 

B1andB2

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just a questions for the ones left on the thread,

why should we believe in a god when there are muslims out there who smoke/drink/gamble/drugs/etc but they are adamant they are muslim and are following the religion?

like if didn't follow the rules of a club, I would get kicked off the club. is there a similar thing to kick mulims acting like this "out of the club"
I already said that being Muslim doesn’t mean you’re going to be saved from punishment.


i was being srs, yr 12 is a bit stressful cos u gotta think about ur future/doing well in school/etc but yeah good luck and just remember that yr 12 doesn't mean anything a couple of years from now.
wow thanks so much it’s actually pretty cool coming from you ngl like thought you wouldn’t wish something nice upon me

thanks!
 

jimmysmith560

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just a questions for the ones left on the thread,

why should we believe in a god when there are muslims out there who smoke/drink/gamble/drugs/etc but they are adamant they are muslim and are following the religion?

like if didn't follow the rules of a club, I would get kicked off the club. is there a similar thing to kick mulims acting like this "out of the club"
There is judgement in Islam I believe, just like in Christianity. We are given a chance to live a faithful life and judgement will be the result of our actions throughout our life.

Smoking, drinking, gambling and drugs are not considered bad in Islam only. Christianity prohibits those as well plus some other things (which I believe Islam does too).

As for being "kicked out" I'm not entirely sure. However, I do know that for things such as marriage, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man under Islam unless he converts and vice versa, and that there are severe consequences for Muslims who don't adhere to this.
 

B1andB2

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As for being "kicked out" I'm not entirely sure. However, I do know that for things such as marriage, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man under Islam unless he converts and vice versa, and that there are severe consequences for Muslims who don't adhere to this.
Everyone is sinful, no one is perfect. Islam is not only for those who are “more righteous” and you don’t get kicked out because it’s not a club/cult. It’s just a way of life
 

Squar3root

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I already said that being Muslim doesn’t mean you’re going to be saved from punishment.
o right

wow thanks so much it’s actually pretty cool coming from you ngl like thought you wouldn’t wish something nice upon me

thanks!
idc about anyones religion/color/age/job/disability/etc etc if the person is decent then we're all good but u can usually tell when someone is being a shitcunt. it just so happens that the people I've had bad experiences with are usually muslim. like for e.g. i used to be a bouncer and kicking out white/asian people out is easy but kicking out muslims was difficult because they want to fight/swear/argue etc which doesn't really give a good impression if u nomsayin
 

Squar3root

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There is judgement in Islam I believe, just like in Christianity. We are given a chance to live a faithful life and judgement will be the result of our actions throughout our life.

Smoking, drinking, gambling and drugs are not considered bad in Islam only. Christianity prohibits those as well plus some other things (which I believe Islam does too).

As for being "kicked out" I'm not entirely sure. However, I do know that for things such as marriage, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man under Islam unless he converts and vice versa, and that there are severe consequences for Muslims who don't adhere to this.
what are those "severe consequences" and who imposes that? like the mosque or just ur family?

christians/catholics are way worse lol. i went to a catholic school and the amount of shitcunts there....
 

jimmysmith560

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what are those "severe consequences" and who imposes that? like the mosque or just ur family?
The severe consequences are pretty much hell (or Fire as the Quran describes it), so I would assume they are not imposed during one's life, unless we're talking about a country like Saudi Arabia, where there are punishments (enforced by the government) for breaching Islamic law.

Quran (2:221)

"And do not marry Polytheist women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a Polytheist women, even though she might please you. And do not marry Polytheist men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a Polytheist men, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember".

christians/catholics are way worse lol. i went to a catholic school and the amount of shitcunts there....
As a Christian I fully agree with you.
 

B1andB2

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o right

idc about anyones religion/color/age/job/disability/etc etc if the person is decent then we're all good but u can usually tell when someone is being a shitcunt. it just so happens that the people I've had bad experiences with are usually muslim. like for e.g. i used to be a bouncer and kicking out white/asian people out is easy but kicking out muslims was difficult because they want to fight/swear/argue etc which doesn't really give a good impression if u nomsayin
Bouncer? Like night club?

And Muslims?

uh it’s haram for muslims to enter nightclubs but I guess for those that do, can you really generalise?
 

Squar3root

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The severe consequences are pretty much hell (or Fire as the Quran describes it), so I would assume they are not imposed during one's life, unless we're talking about a country like Saudi Arabia, where there are punishments (enforced by the government) for breaching Islamic law.

Quran (2:221)

"And do not marry Polytheist women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a Polytheist women, even though she might please you. And do not marry Polytheist men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a Polytheist men, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember".



As a Christian I fully agree with you.
oh interesting

do u kno why (or can point me in the right direction) why all these qruran and bible were written in parables and shit? like wouldn't it be easier to say what u mean

Bouncer? Like night club?

And Muslims?

uh it’s haram for muslims to enter nightclubs but I guess for those that do, can you really generalise?
yeah like night clubs and bars/etc

i think yes I can generalise? like I have only met a handful of decent muslims but way more bad ones

but similarly I;ve met more good asians than bad so I generalise that asians are generally better
 

jimmysmith560

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oh interesting

do u kno why (or can point me in the right direction) why all these qruran and bible were written in parables and shit? like wouldn't it be easier to say what u mean
Yeah, it would definitely be easier to just get straight to the point. I'm not entirely sure why the Bible and Quran are written in the way they are but I would assume it's something to do with the period in which they were originally written. Perhaps those times (1400-2000 years ago) embraced that kind of "literature".

However, I don't think it would be too hard to correctly interpret what they convey? Like with the Quran passage I included it was pretty straightforward to figure out what "Fire" means (or maybe it's just me idk haha).
 

B1andB2

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oh interesting

do u kno why (or can point me in the right direction) why all these quran and bible were written in parables and shit? like wouldn't it be easier to say what u mean

yeah like night clubs and bars/etc

i think yes I can generalise? like I have only met a handful of decent muslims but way more bad ones

but similarly I;ve met more good asians than bad so I generalise that asians are generally better
It would be easy for an Arabic speaker. it's the translation into English/another language that's difficult.

About the generalisation i should've been more explicit. It's completely normal to generalise, but the problem arises when you start treating people who are respectful with disrespect at first because of your prejudice. That's not okay.
 

SylviaB

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It would be easy for an Arabic speaker. it's the translation into English/another language that's difficult.

About the generalisation i should've been more explicit. It's completely normal to generalise, but the problem arises when you start treating people who are respectful with disrespect at first because of your prejudice. That's not okay.
It's funny when the people who imprison and execute people for homosexuality, apostasy and practising other religions talk about "respect"
 

B1andB2

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It's funny when the people who imprison and execute people for homosexuality, apostasy and practising other religions talk about "respect"
sorry i don't remember the last time i imprisoned or executed anyone.

anyhow it's clear you just don't want this thread to die. lol bye
 
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