Does God exist? (2 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


  • Total voters
    1,473

jimmysmith560

Phénix Trilingue
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
548
Location
Krak des Chevaliers
Gender
Male
HSC
2019
Uni Grad
2022
what are those "severe consequences" and who imposes that? like the mosque or just ur family?
The severe consequences are pretty much hell (or Fire as the Quran describes it), so I would assume they are not imposed during one's life, unless we're talking about a country like Saudi Arabia, where there are punishments (enforced by the government) for breaching Islamic law.

Quran (2:221)

"And do not marry Polytheist women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a Polytheist women, even though she might please you. And do not marry Polytheist men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a Polytheist men, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember".

christians/catholics are way worse lol. i went to a catholic school and the amount of shitcunts there....
As a Christian I fully agree with you.
 

B1andB2

pyjama
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
499
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
o right

idc about anyones religion/color/age/job/disability/etc etc if the person is decent then we're all good but u can usually tell when someone is being a shitcunt. it just so happens that the people I've had bad experiences with are usually muslim. like for e.g. i used to be a bouncer and kicking out white/asian people out is easy but kicking out muslims was difficult because they want to fight/swear/argue etc which doesn't really give a good impression if u nomsayin
Bouncer? Like night club?

And Muslims?

uh it’s haram for muslims to enter nightclubs but I guess for those that do, can you really generalise?
 

Squar3root

listening to tapes
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
4,959
Location
welcome to ur tape
Gender
Male
HSC
2023
Uni Grad
2005
The severe consequences are pretty much hell (or Fire as the Quran describes it), so I would assume they are not imposed during one's life, unless we're talking about a country like Saudi Arabia, where there are punishments (enforced by the government) for breaching Islamic law.

Quran (2:221)

"And do not marry Polytheist women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a Polytheist women, even though she might please you. And do not marry Polytheist men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a Polytheist men, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember".



As a Christian I fully agree with you.
oh interesting

do u kno why (or can point me in the right direction) why all these qruran and bible were written in parables and shit? like wouldn't it be easier to say what u mean

Bouncer? Like night club?

And Muslims?

uh it’s haram for muslims to enter nightclubs but I guess for those that do, can you really generalise?
yeah like night clubs and bars/etc

i think yes I can generalise? like I have only met a handful of decent muslims but way more bad ones

but similarly I;ve met more good asians than bad so I generalise that asians are generally better
 

jimmysmith560

Phénix Trilingue
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
548
Location
Krak des Chevaliers
Gender
Male
HSC
2019
Uni Grad
2022
oh interesting

do u kno why (or can point me in the right direction) why all these qruran and bible were written in parables and shit? like wouldn't it be easier to say what u mean
Yeah, it would definitely be easier to just get straight to the point. I'm not entirely sure why the Bible and Quran are written in the way they are but I would assume it's something to do with the period in which they were originally written. Perhaps those times (1400-2000 years ago) embraced that kind of "literature".

However, I don't think it would be too hard to correctly interpret what they convey? Like with the Quran passage I included it was pretty straightforward to figure out what "Fire" means (or maybe it's just me idk haha).
 

B1andB2

pyjama
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
499
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
oh interesting

do u kno why (or can point me in the right direction) why all these quran and bible were written in parables and shit? like wouldn't it be easier to say what u mean

yeah like night clubs and bars/etc

i think yes I can generalise? like I have only met a handful of decent muslims but way more bad ones

but similarly I;ve met more good asians than bad so I generalise that asians are generally better
It would be easy for an Arabic speaker. it's the translation into English/another language that's difficult.

About the generalisation i should've been more explicit. It's completely normal to generalise, but the problem arises when you start treating people who are respectful with disrespect at first because of your prejudice. That's not okay.
 

SylviaB

sorry if i offended anyone
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,205
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
It would be easy for an Arabic speaker. it's the translation into English/another language that's difficult.

About the generalisation i should've been more explicit. It's completely normal to generalise, but the problem arises when you start treating people who are respectful with disrespect at first because of your prejudice. That's not okay.
It's funny when the people who imprison and execute people for homosexuality, apostasy and practising other religions talk about "respect"
 

B1andB2

pyjama
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
499
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
It's funny when the people who imprison and execute people for homosexuality, apostasy and practising other religions talk about "respect"
sorry i don't remember the last time i imprisoned or executed anyone.

anyhow it's clear you just don't want this thread to die. lol bye
 
Last edited:

SylviaB

sorry if i offended anyone
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,205
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
sorry i don't remember the last time i imprisoned or executed anyone.

anyhow it's clear you just don't want this thread to die. lol bye
muslims do this. And muslims like you never speak out against it. people like you get more upset over someone saying bad things about islam than muslims murdering people in the name of their religion.

Btw, your prophet was a slave trader and pedophile.
 

dan964

MOD
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
South of here
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
The Arabic word in the non-translated verse is “alaqah” which has three meanings: 1. Leech 2. A suspended thing and 3. Blood clot

It is possible to compare a leech’s shape to the initial stage of the embryo. The embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, just like a leech which feeds on the blood of others.

“Blood from the mother passes through the placenta, filtering oxygen, glucose and other nutrients to your baby via the umbilical cord”

https://www.pregnancybirthbaby.org.au/what-is-the-placenta

Now the second meaning is “suspended thing”. The embryo is in fact suspended to the mother’s womb via the umbilical cord.

Third, blood clot. The physical appearance of the embryo can be likened to a blood clot. You are taking the translation, “clot” as an actual clot. Think of it as a simile. At this stage, the blood of the embryo does not circulate until the third week.
The leech comparison is inaccurate. The second meeting is only a relatively recent one adopted (although it is probably the best reading) but the embryo is not always suspended. The third reading, if it is a simile, then it does not convince me of the miraculous.
This is putting aside that muscles actually begin developing before bones, and that an female ovum is not a secretion.

I am completely aware that Aristotle and other great thinkers have understood such. However, what I am merely trying to present is that past thinkers have in no way demonstrated scientific knowledge to the same extent the Quran, a single book that has remained unchanged has.
I am going to be frank, you have not demonstrated that at all. The Quran does not demonstrate a greater extent of scientific knowledge for its day or when compared to the Greeks. I find its observations rudimentary, perhaps accurate for the science of its time (700s), but hardly miraculous.
There is evidence that Mohammed and his companions were influenced in this area by Galen, Aristotle and Hippocrates (the first name I was not familiar with until I did some more reading)

Firstly, thanks for fixing up the 51:47. Now in terms of the translation of this verse. We must know that the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic, a highly complex and vast language compared to English. Thus arises a lot of ambiguity when it comes to translating these into another language, one of which you have outlined with 51:47. The Arabic word used in this is “samaa”. This can either mean 1. Sky or 2. Heaven. So how would one know which is the directed meaning, without taking a scientific interpretation?
As long as the meanings are derived from the possible meanings set in the original Arabic, then our understanding will not be wrong.
Nope, because you have to read a verse in context and true to the intent of the text first, before you take some alternate reading.
Plus perhaps the scientific interpretations are a bit oversold, that you may actually miss what the text is saying. You can also look at how the word is used in other passages where the context is similar.

The Quran matches the observable facts of the universe. It takes to the limit of people’s knowledge through its word usage, to match the
people that understood it 1400 years ago and to also match the observations of future generations. This is evident through the “clot” scenario too.
It is not hard to believe the Quran would match the science available at 700AD and perhaps a bit beyond (with some exegetical leaps).
The bold is not accurate.

Lastly, about the mountains being “fixed”. Many verses of the Qur’an state that the function of the mountains is to prevent shocks in the earth. mountains play a similar role to a nail or a peg firmly holding down a tent. For example, the Mount Everest, the summit of which stands approximately 9 km above the surface of the earth, has a root deeper than 125 km inside the earth...

The Qur’an in the above verse implies to make something rooted; to anchor; or, to fix something firmly not allowing that to move freely in which it has been fixed. The earth has different layers and by fixing the earth’s crust they prevent any sliding over the magma layer or amongst the layers themselves. In short, the mountains can be compared to the nails holding various strips of wood together. The earth revolves quickly around its own axis, were it not for the fixing effect of the mountains, these plaques would shift and shock the earth. In such an event, the life would be impossible.
Pegs and roots are not the same. One is the result of natural process, the other man made objects. Secondly mountains are caused by tectonic plates which also generate earthquakes (in fact earthquakes often occur near mountain ranges). Tectonic plates not mountains are what also prevent earthquakes as well.; nor do mountains prevent tectonic movements.

If you have noticed, the only reason I contribute to this thread is when I see a misconception of Islam being spread. I do not try and find fault in any other religion, and when i do question atheism it is never in a disrespectful manner. Because all I want to do is highlight how while you may not agree with something, other people (e.g me) do find reason in it and this difference is no excuse for spreading irrational fear and hatred.
Respect is good and part of that is recognising that sound criticism or engagement with arguments does not mean misconception or that is driven by an irrational fear or hatred. (I don't even agree with all Christian/theist arguments, and even my arguments earlier in this very thread I would disagree with or change).
 

dan964

MOD
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
South of here
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
what are those "severe consequences" and who imposes that? like the mosque or just ur family?

christians/catholics are way worse lol. i went to a catholic school and the amount of shitcunts there....
catholic school. not all are Christians/catholic at the schools, and those that identify as such, may be nominal. mind you some 14 year old kids are just brats irrespectively.
 

dan964

MOD
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
South of here
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
just a questions for the ones left on the thread,

why should we believe in a god when there are muslims out there who smoke/drink/gamble/drugs/etc but they are adamant they are muslim and are following the religion?

like if didn't follow the rules of a club, I would get kicked off the club. is there a similar thing to kick mulims acting like this "out of the club"
The inconsistent of the followers, does not help anyone. Some Muslims would regard those you mentioned as not Muslims, but that is an-inhouse debate really within Islam on what a true Muslim is.

Same goes with Christians that go against the Bible (as well as 'liberal Christians'). Are they Christians? Or are they just being inconsistent?
 

dan964

MOD
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
South of here
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
Everyone is sinful, no one is perfect. Islam is not only for those who are “more righteous” and you don’t get kicked out because it’s not a club/cult. It’s just a way of life
Except if you convert away from Islam. Apostasy is a real issue. (Mind you not just for Islam, they are just the ones where it is more noticeable in certain parts of the world). Many MBB who convert to especially Christianity face persecution in some parts of the world.
 

B1andB2

pyjama
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
499
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
Sorry @dan964 but i won't be responding to all that you wrote, as i have explicitly stated before. I have major priorities and it really doesn't bother me whether you find the religion faulty.

The chunky stuff i write are to answer questions which are posed directly to Islam. Whether you find it erroneous or not is not my concern. I am not interested in debate, as evident by the fact that i do not present my own arguments against other beliefs. I merely respond.

i have more respect for muslim suicide bombers than western practitioners of religion bc at least the former actually believe it
I think its a stretch to say islam is a dead social and political force
Like no we just don't believe in some backwards text written by people who think a pedo should be worshipped?

Think about if you didn't grow up Islamic. Would you go out of ur way to seek god? Probably not, it was just forced down ur throat growing up and ur just continuing that way of thinking.
but then again, most of its followers are not even half reasonable
We agreed that muslims cause more harm than good
Respect is good and part of that is recognising that sound criticism or engagement with arguments does not mean misconception or that is driven by an irrational fear or hatred
I guess our perception on what constitutes "sound criticism or engagement with arguments" and "irrational fear and hatred" are different. Perhaps i'm the more sensitive one, since you all appear to dismiss the above as normal.

In that case, apologies for the accusations.
 
Last edited:

SylviaB

sorry if i offended anyone
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,205
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
I guess our perception on what constitutes "sound criticism or engagement with arguments" and "irrational fear and hatred" are different. Perhaps i'm the more sensitive one, since you all appear to dismiss the above as normal.

In that case, apologies for the accusations.
Literally none of the posts you quoted are examples of irrational fear or hatred
 

dan964

MOD
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
South of here
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
I guess our perception on what constitutes "sound criticism or engagement with arguments" and "irrational fear and hatred" are different. Perhaps i'm the more sensitive one, since you all appear to dismiss the above as normal.

In that case, apologies for the accusations.
It is all good, perhaps I'm missing it but I don't know exactly you think you are accusing me of. A lot of tone of what I say is lost in the fact that is a forum and not face-to-face.

I actually think it is good that you have replied to some of the things that they say, especially to correct misinformation. Some are known for posting these things just to provoke people, and especially where that has happened outside of this chat, it isn't normal.

But this is the one place where it is to be expected. If someone posted misinformation about my faith then I would usually respond as well when necessary. And I do get that some of those posts you quoted are such.

But it is normal to expect that people will not 100% understand where you are coming from. And Islam as a whole (as does other viewpoints), especially, has a lot of answering to do in recent years regarding the violence that is justified from its texts in certain parts of the world.

The chunky stuff i write are to answer questions which are posed directly to Islam. Whether you find it erroneous or not is not my concern. I am not interested in debate, as evident by the fact that i do not present my own arguments against other beliefs. I merely respond.
I do not respond to everything in this chat, and some things I think it is better for Muslims to answer.

Not everyone has the same rationality as a Muslim; and that doesn't make them irrational. In fact as one of the quotes showed,
that not everyone finds the way a Muslim argues is rational.

I generally am selective as well in what I can reply to. The only post I have mainly responded to this is this one: https://community.boredofstudies.org/threads/does-god-exist.106355/post-7370217 and to your subsequent response to that.

If I wanted to present lots of arguments against Islam I could as well. But its both a lack of desire and time means that I don't; and besides face-to-face is a better place for those conversations.
 

SylviaB

sorry if i offended anyone
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,205
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
It is not irrational to base your understanding of the world on an ancient book
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)

Top