Does God exist? (6 Viewers)

[bigboyjames]

I keep hearing muslims saying that the "Quran remaining unchanged over XYZ years" is a testament to it's authenticity and truth.

What does this even mean?

How does it prove that Quran actually came from God?

Isn't this actually a con and not a pro in the argument for the Quran? Times have changed, people have changed, societies have changed, Quran hasn't changed! The arabic language itself has changed, so does the Quran now even saying the same thing it was intending to say centuries ago?


I have no problems with religious people who agree that their faith is blind. Even i can accept it, my faith is blind.


There are a million and one things I can think of in the next 5 minutes, none of which you or anyone else can disprove. Does not mean we should believe them to be true until disproved.. going down this path would set a very dangerous precedent.

 

[Kwayera]

Christians say the same thing. "It has been copied xyz times over the last xyz years and is still the same! Thus it is authentic! Thus it is a true rendition of history!"

I had to watch an entire hour-long video on the subject in high school.

 

[Edward Teach]

if you knew anything about Christianity, you would know that humility is a virtue.

if you really thought everyone you knew was going to hell because they haven't dropped everything to follow jesus like he said to in the bible, you'd never shut up about it, in fact you'd be desperate to convert everyone before it's too late, lol

 

[bigboyjames]

if looked at it in its fundamental form, "you either have blind faith, or you dont" for the only evidence which all these religious biggots can offer is a verse from the Quran /bible which in summary says "This book is legit, period."

The verse itself is an oxymoron. How can there be no doubt in something which, admittedly, is a belief, you know?

 

[inasero]

Christianity seems to be a little patronising to their God-figure.

Like he is some sort of tantruming child who is angry because of the faults he made in the people he created, and blames humanity for his mistakes.

you couldn't be further from the truth
in fact the God we know is compassionate and doesn't want anybody to go to hell, but if people go about their merry ways without paying heed to God then who is He to intervene with people's free will?

 

[inasero]

I keep hearing muslims saying that the "Quran remaining unchanged over XYZ years" is a testament to it's authenticity and truth.

What does this even mean?

How does it prove that Quran actually came from God?

Isn't this actually a con and not a pro in the argument for the Quran? Times have changed, people have changed, societies have changed, Quran hasn't changed! The arabic language itself has changed, so does the Quran now even saying the same thing it was intending to say centuries ago?

I don't believe in the Quran, but I can see where that argument's coming from. As a Christian, I believe that people and times change, but truth never changes.

 

[inasero]

So from a Christian point of view, everyone who is not Christian is going to hell, and therefore needs to be saved? Do they really hope to convert every non-Christian before the end of the world?

To me, that sounds a bit impractical, but then again, who am I to be questioning what someone genuinely believes in? If that's what helps them get through life, then so be it.

there's so many starving people in the world today, but does that absolve us of our responsibility to do whatever we can? of course it might seem impossible but:
1) we have to think on God's terms, and not on our human limitations.

With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible

2) we have to do the best we can with the gifts God has given us.

 

[bigboyjames]

I don't believe in the Quran, but I can see where that argument's coming from. As a Christian, I believe that people and times change, but truth never changes.

truth = facts.
unless you live in lala land, everything you have to say about religion, Christianity, or any super natural being is BS. because everything you state as facts in regards to religion, Christianity, a super natural being is based on faith.

 

[bigboyjames]

It will be nice that we can end this argument. and in doing so we will need to have first hand information- from God himself for every other source is second hand.

 

[squeenie]

Someone once told me that when we acknowledge the limitations of the models we call Science and Religion, we acknowledge the limitations of humanity.

Science and Religion are models that we (yes, we, as in humanity) use to explain the world. They will never be perfect, and I don't think they were ever meant to be.

How do we know what is fact, and what isn't?

 

[inasero]

no one deserves eternal hell for not believing in something which has no evidence of being *TRUE*

Not according to the Bible, I'm afraid-

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 

[squeenie]

no one deserves eternal hell for not believing in something which has no evidence of being *TRUE*

But then those who do believe will argue that all this is based on faith, and the only thing you can do is accept it as truth, even if there isn't any evidence.

To be honest, I really don't know where I stand on this whole religion debate. Something tells me I should have faith, but at the same time, following a faith might cause me to overlook something.

 

[KFunk]

in fact the God we know is compassionate and doesn't want anybody to go to hell, but if people go about their merry ways without paying heed to God then who is He to intervene with people's free will?

Free will is a load of bunk. Why don't I accept the truth of Christ? Because I see no reason to. As best as I can tell there is scant evidence which would make such a belief reasonable - that is, according to my individual sense of rationality.

So perhaps my sense of rationality is flawed. But wait, did I design my own neural logic circuits, or the social circumstances surrounding my upbringing? No, I don't think so.

Basically, unless you can provide a framework which makes free will even remotely sensible then the "it's our fault" retort will never fly. If god designed humans and the world around us then I feel that god holds at least as much responsibility for our actions as we do. (Also, even if we were to hypothetically accept free will, isn't it god's choice to allow hell to exist? Assuming, of course, that its existence is not necessitated for one reason or another.)

 

[KFunk]

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Then call me wicked. Also, what do you make of the possible contradictory reading of"god's invisible qualities have been clearly seen"?

 

[Kwayera]

Charming religion, ain't it.

 

[squeenie]

Then call me wicked. Also, what do you make of the possible contradictory reading of"god's invisible qualities have been clearly seen"?

Oh dear. That just reminded me of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

 

[inasero]

God designed humans with free will, but it's up to us to decide how we'll choose to live our lives. Surely you can't blame God for deliberately rejecting the only chance of salvation you're given. And even that's by grace alone- God would be well within his rights to deny anybody salvation because the Bible says we're all sinners and deserving of condemnation.

 

[inasero]

Then call me wicked. Also, what do you make of the possible contradictory reading of"god's invisible qualities have been clearly seen"?

oh don't get me wrong i know as well as anybody how wicked I am, the only difference is that this wicked person has accepted grace

 

[*TRUE*]

Then call me wicked. Also, what do you make of the possible contradictory reading of"god's invisible qualities have been clearly seen"?

You are no more 'wicked' than me Kieran.

 

[squeenie]

oh don't get me wrong i know as well as anybody how wicked I am, the only difference is that this wicked person has accepted grace

But then what exactly do we mean by 'wicked'? Those who have been 'led astray' by becoming godless? Or is there more to it than that? Label jars, not people.