Does God exist? (2 Viewers)

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Firstly thats a really horrible story, I feel really sorry for the boys parents, they'll never be able to forget

God gave us free will, we are able to do as we please. That means, obviously I can kill you, you can kill me, or we can team up and kill whomever etc etc. It also means that X person can fire a gun randomly into the sky, and the falling bullet
may kill someone, and God will not prevent it, he gave us the free will to do as we please in this life.

God couldn't have given us free will, if he didn't allow us to disobey His laws. So just as having sex out of wedlock is immoral as it is against His word, so is murder, but we can choose to do both. Humans have always been able to choose to disobey Gods law (eg. Adam and Eve).

Now, the idiots with the gun in this case, may not have been trying to kill someone, let alone the poor little boy, but they did, as a result of actions that were certinely avoidable. They have committed murder (not societies definition of murder, but Gods; the killing of another human being).

So, as God allows us to have sex out of wedlock, commit rape, he allows us to kill each other. Humans are not forced to live by Gods law. In fact, they are incapable of it, and will inevitably be tempted to sin every now and then.

Regardless, why should God willingly prevent the death of one of his faithful? When they die, their soul will rise and rejoin him in Heaven.

Have I answered your question?

Kind off, but not really.

Come now, the chances of bullet penetrating god's fortresses and actually killing someone from 4km (or is it miles?) away? And yes, why DID god allowed the death of one of his faithful?

God could've still interferred. Like how he did with moses and aaron, vesting them with power to rescue the isralites from egypt (i think... is that right?). Or with the great flood.

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

who said that hell is a place of physical fire? it could just be the sensation of burning?

Yes, the bible does have many translations, but the world also has ,many translators.. if a translation is wrong, then we would be able to pick up these errors. we still have people around who can still read and speak hebrew, the first language in which the bible was written.and if your thinking well, no one has time to go through all the translations... im sure computers are capable to doing it.


you'll see it in due time...


if temperature is bound by these rules, why can't life be? why is temperature bound?

studying.

The versions in hebrew... Or any other language for that fact have all been re-written. Leads back to my previous post.

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

its an expression. you can't face " the notion that your understanding may be wrong and do not want to think about the posibility that there is infact a God"

and the fact is that there really is a GOD. just listen to the mp3's attached. and it is a fact

Rather useless statement.

I could say the same to you... Say you're 'not facing facts' about god not existing. But I don't.

That's called tolerance.

 

[BlackDragon]

It's a subtle psychological nudge to try and get you to question the 'facts'... This may work if the person saying it actually knows what you're talking about lol.

tick. adoman hasn't given any indication that he knows how to respond to our arguments.

all he says is:

the fact is that there really is a GOD. just listen to the mp3's attached. and it is a fact

I will give someone more credit if they actually wanted to engage in discussion in a reasonable way.

This is what is going on though:

A: Why does there have to be a god?
B: Because there is a god.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

its an expression. you can't face " the notion that your understanding may be wrong and do not want to think about the posibility that there is infact a God"

and the fact is that there really is a GOD. just listen to the mp3's attached. and it is a fact

If it IS a fact, then why do all other religions still exist? HUH!? Why isn't church compulsory? Why isn't the law centred around the bible (or more centred)?



You lose.

 

[Enteebee]

Against this kind of thinking it makes fairly plain sense to me that the idea of man as a fabricated being created with a purpose in the mind of god gives life meaning in a very straight forward way. It may not be exceptionally reflective, e.g. it does not necessarily require one to answer the question 'why do we accept the intentions of god as inherently meaningful?', but it certainly provides a form of meaning which is missing for the nihilist. A similar form of meaning could perhaps be found by anyone who believes in objective moral truths.

I think this would give us meaning, in the mind of God - But we still don't have the meaning for ourselves. For instance consider a conscious 'pen', while I have given it the meaning of 'thing to write with' and it knows I have given it 'a' meaning, it has no way of knowing what meaning I gave it.

So I'm really not sure what it provides that a nihilist doesn't have. For instance, I know that there are some people who 'believe' I am a creation of God and have a meaning -- This does't give me any greater meaning though.

 

[KFunk]

I think this would give us meaning, in the mind of God - But we still don't have the meaning for ourselves. For instance consider a conscious 'pen', while I have given it the meaning of 'thing to write with' and it knows I have given it 'a' meaning, it has no way of knowing what meaning I gave it.

So I'm really not sure what it provides that a nihilist doesn't have. For instance, I know that there are some people who 'believe' I am a creation of God and have a meaning -- This does't give me any greater meaning though.

To believe that you were created with a purpose, simpliciter, is already to cultivate a belief that there is a meaning for life (however mundane). As far as I can tell most people assume that this meaning amounts to living a life which is either (1) in praise of god or (2) morally sound, or that the specific form of the good life can be derived from a holy text, a prophet, reflection, revelation, natural theology, or some combination thereof.

Of course this isn't fully satisfying for a nihilist, but that is because the nihilist persists in deconstructing meaning until we are left with individual choice, that is, if they even allow that to remain.

 

[Enteebee]

It's very... very basic and given the amount people talk about how God provides them with meaning, I sort of doubt it's this. I mean, this appears no better than someone who at least 'thinks' they have a meaning to their life - but ddoesn't know it yet. I imagine it's more that they create meaning in their lives, the same way as most of us do, but then probably just attribute it to a 'higher' purpose - Which is maybe something a nihilist would have more trouble with... Though there are ways for people to get caught up in a similar rapture.

 

[BlackDragon]

It's very... very basic and given the amount people talk about how God provides them with meaning, I sort of doubt it's this. I imagine it's more that they create meaning in their lives, the same way as most of us do, but then probably just attribute it to a 'higher' purpose - Which is maybe something a nihilist would have more trouble with.

Yes anything that they percieve god is giving them is delusory because they are really giving it to themselves.

 

[philphie]

rabble rabble rabble rabble

 

[KFunk]

It's very... very basic and given the amount people talk about how God provides them with meaning, I sort of doubt it's this. I mean, this appears no better than someone who at least 'thinks' they have a meaning to their life - but ddoesn't know it yet. I imagine it's more that they create meaning in their lives, the same way as most of us do, but then probably just attribute it to a 'higher' purpose - Which is maybe something a nihilist would have more trouble with... Though there are ways for people to get caught up in a similar rapture.

Sure, but you can only speak of such 'attribution' if you assume that the higher being/purpose they posit is essentially fictional or subjective. If god happens to exist then, within a theistic framework, the meaning is presumed to be god given.

 

[Enteebee]

Sure, but you can only speak of such 'attribution' if you assume that the higher being/purpose they posit is essentially fictional or subjective. If god happens to exist then, within a theistic framework, the meaning is presumed to be god given.

The problem with that is that atheists and theists seem to find the same things in life meaningful.

 

[KFunk]

The problem with that is that atheists and theists seem to find the same things in life meaningful.

That shouldn't be surprising either way. In the case of the atheist one can simply posit that humans have a natural propensity to find certain things meaningful (love? sex? moral engagement? prosperity? community?). In the case of the theist this propensity is instead held to be of divine origin.

 

[Name_Taken]

Kind off, but not really.

Come now, the chances of bullet penetrating god's fortresses and actually killing someone from 4km (or is it miles?) away? And yes, why DID god allowed the death of one of his faithful?

God could've still interferred. Like how he did with moses and aaron, vesting them with power to rescue the isralites from egypt (i think... is that right?). Or with the great flood.

This is Gods world, but you could think of it as mankinds playground. Sure, he can involve himself in the affairs of his creations when he sees fit, but he gave us the free will to govern our actions in this life, its just we will always be accountable for our actions to Him.

He does not have to explain His reasons to you or I however, and it is arrogant of you to think He doesn't have every right to do what He wants with your life. He is your creator, and mine, afterall.

The Church is hardly God's fortress. God is a being who exists on a whole seperate plane of exitence that the universe we experiecne as reality. To God the Church's structure is just like that of every other building we humans erect. As if the creator of the universe would fear a bullet.

There was very little "chance", once the bullet was fired, it came down to pure physics. As I said before, we have the free will, and we are allowed to use to use it to disobey God's commands.

God doesn't have to show favouritism to His followers. He loves every human, and so is just as likely to perform miracles to save a believer from death as He is to save an unbeliever (or even a satanist or the like) from death or harm.

When a believer dies, their soul will rise to Heaven where they will live for all eternity with God. If anything, believers should look forward to death, and leaving this world of sin and temptation.

Why would God prevent the transition of one of his servants from this life to the next? (Unless of course He has His own special reason/s for doing so, which His under no obligation to make apparent to us).

 

[BlackDragon]

Stating theology doesn't get us anywhere. We have to remove ourselves from these theological details and question why should believe them..

 

[Name_Taken]

Stating theology doesn't get us anywhere. We have to remove ourselves from these theological details and question why should believe them..

Because you accept God as your Creator and Christ as your Savior and through your love for Him. worship Him in everything you do and attempt to lead a sinless life, praying for His strength to resist temptation and His forgiveness when you are tempted away.

There is no other reason to believe in Him. God wants you to love Him back. If you were able to prove His existence, there would be no faith, no love, just... knowledge.

 

[chuha]

If you think God exists, then he does.
If you don't think God exists then he doesn't.

But if you do, then you have faith =)

 

[KFunk]

If you think God exists, then he does.
If you don't think God exists then he doesn't.

Just like my right hand! (peek-a-boo)

 

[adomad]

If it IS a fact, then why do all other religions still exist? HUH!? Why isn't church compulsory? Why isn't the law centred around the bible (or more centred)?



You lose.

cause we have the free will to do what we choose. making apart of the law isn't really "free-ing" is it. hence, the reason why God isn't hitting you with lightning is cause you have free will to do what ever you want to. just like your HSC, you could either study or not, in the end its up to you. there isn't a law to study hard and get a good ATAR, but you know that you have to study and when you don't you feel guilty for wasting your life.

isn't it in the 10 commandments that you shouldn't steal?
isn't theift against the law?
how about murdering? isn't that too against the law?

 

[BlackDragon]

Just like my right hand! (peek-a-boo)

Yes. Relativism doesn't work. You can't pretend that beliefs are like preferences for icecream. We can't all be right.

For example, Christianity and Islam can't both be right.