hai guyz do u think we should tattoo DFEE on fee payin students foreheads? (2 Viewers)

[Nebuchanezzar]

I'd be interested to see the statistics regarding that.

But anyway, even so, they're still paying money to get in over more deserving people. UNFAIR!

 

[Captain Gh3y]

They aren't more deserving because they didn't get a high enough UAI to earn a CSP place and chose not to pay for their degree instead

 

[x-kendall-x]

You've made the mistake of constructing some sort of "DFEE is for rich people and CSP is for poor people" dichotomy; there are government loans for DFEE students, it's just if you're not good enough you have to actually pay for your degree instead of scabbing off the government.

I probably should have worded it differently. I don't mean to infer DFEE is for rich people and CSP isn't, its just I don't think there should be different cut-offs according to whether you are a DFEE or CSP student.
It just doesn't seem very fair.
When I go to Uni after my gap year I'll be doing a CSP course hopefully with Youth Allowance because there's absolutely no way my parents could afford to pay full fees. If DFEE hasn't been phased out by this stage, this means I'll, as well as many other students, have to work extra hard to get the UAI we need just because we're trying to get into CSP courses.

 

[Conspirocy]

They aren't more deserving because they didn't get a high enough UAI to earn a CSP place and chose not to pay for their degree instead

Some people would think that people who are willing to pay the cost of their education are more deserving.

What's the big deal. It is equitable, loans are available to everyone. If you really wanted to do the course you would apply for DFEE and take out a loan. Everyone has that opportunity.

These students take the same tests as you guys and get given the same piece of paper at the end of the degree. If they pay and get through then what is the big deal? I don't get it.

I think more people rought the special considerations provisions.

What is a joke is entry to people bellow the cutoff because they did well in a subject.

 

[Azamakumar]

Some people would think that people who are willing to pay the cost of their education are more deserving.

What's the big deal. It is equitable, loans are available to everyone. If you really wanted to do the course you would apply for DFEE and take out a loan. Everyone has that opportunity.

These students take the same tests as you guys and get given the same piece of paper at the end of the degree. If they pay and get through then what is the big deal? I don't get it.

I think more people rought the special considerations provisions.

What is a joke is entry to people bellow the cutoff because they did well in a subject.

Yet before CSP were introduced, _EVERYONE_ was paying for their courses. CSP were a way of giving better access to higher education for everyone.

If you're motivated enough to work towards a CSP spot, the reward is that you dont have 70k of debt hanging over you after 3 years, which is what a lot of DFEE students face, given that most can't afford the cost of the degree. There is just an option existing for people who want to get stuck in to their studies as opposed to wasting another year trying to get other qualifications.

 

[Conspirocy]

I'm not sure what your point is in the second half??


On another point, the whole argument that DFEE places take CSP places is not perfect. If you think the UAI cut off for the course you missed out on would be lower if there weren't DFEE places that isn't entirely true. Say they get rid of DFEE, all that will happen is someone further down will miss out on what they want to do.

The people who wanted to do law for example are usually the first to complain. With no fee all those people with 94-99 who may have been fee paying students now don't have that option. They will then go for other courses that are lower. Those courses for example commerce will get pushed up. Then economics will get pushed up people with marks 95-96 start to miss out on commerce. And it will flow through the system so that the people who miss out are the ones at the bottom.

Now a lot of you will say that oh but the UAI for law will drop. Yes that is true. I think that it would only drop for one year when the system changes. The second year all that would happen is there would be more people wanting to transfer from one degree to another. The original demand for the course would return. The UAI would stay the same, and it would generally be the same people getting the old DFEE spots. That's my prediction.

 

[Azamakumar]

I'm not sure what your point is in the second half??

I was referencing someone before that complained she had to work harder to get to a CSP place. Why not take out a FEE-HELP loan, pay an extra 20% on top of the uni fees and pay it off for 5-10 years after you leave uni. That's what half the people in DFEE places are facing.

On another point, the whole argument that DFEE places take CSP places is not perfect

It's not true, even. DFEE places can only total 35% of CSP places in the same course, and iirc are only offered once CSP are filled.

 

[Azamakumar]

Just 4 times larger.

 

[jb_nc]

ur an idiot. the previous government created a loan program for students to pay off their uni fees after theyre stable within their chosen professions subsquent to uni. majority of people do not get "daddy" to pay their fees as the program is similar to the hecs loan program.

Tell us more about the great freedom fighter John Howard and his government.

Or don't you YL sociopaths mention John Howard any more?

 

[Triangulum]

ur an idiot. the previous government created a loan program for students to pay off their uni fees after theyre stable within their chosen professions subsquent to uni. majority of people do not get "daddy" to pay their fees as the program is similar to the hecs loan program.

Except that a massive number of degrees, including all combined degrees and large numbers of four-year degrees, cost above the limit for FEE-HELP loans.

 

[Triangulum]

they still cover majority of your fees.

Great, so you only have to pay $20,000 upfront rather than $100,000. I'm sure that's easily achievable for normal people.

 

[Azamakumar]

Except that a massive number of degrees, including all combined degrees and large numbers of four-year degrees, cost above the limit for FEE-HELP loans.

Although one could argue that you would be in a position to earn enough to pay off your degee once you exceed your limit.

Ie a com/law student could go a part time accountant once he has his commerce degree. $10000 a semester isn't exactly Mt Everest for a part time grad.

 

[hannahxxx]

The dfee place for law@ sydney uni was 97.95. People who get that sort of uai aren't slackers. I don't like dfee places either, I'd be glad to see them gone. But this stereotype of people who get dfee places being slackers is just that: a stereotype-it doesn't represent everyone and hence generalizing is unfair. I've known people who have got hecs places at top unis, gotten 98+ uais and faked psychological breakdowns through their trials. They didn't get their hecs spot through hard work in the hsc ( which is the stereotype of people who get government funded places). I think people should think more before they make gross generalizations

 

[jb_nc]

DFEE costs the government more than CSP places. There are DFEE loans for private colleges and all this other shit. I wouldn't say university places are that bad but having your loans subsidised at some shithole private college it.

In conclusion, fuck DFEE.

 

[x-kendall-x]

ur an idiot. the previous government created a loan program for students to pay off their uni fees after theyre stable within their chosen professions subsquent to uni. majority of people do not get "daddy" to pay their fees as the program is similar to the hecs loan program.

As I pointed out to Captain Gh3y, I should have worded my post differently. All I'm really trying to say is why should there be different UAI cut-offs according to how you are going to pay for your course?
Why should one method have a lower UAI when both courses are the same?

It shouldn't matter what your situation is, financial or otherwise, you're either good enough to get into the course or you're not. There shouldn't be two standards.

 

[Azamakumar]

As I pointed out to Captain Gh3y, I should have worded my post differently. All I'm really trying to say is why should there be different UAI cut-offs according to how you are going to pay for your course?
Why should one method have a lower UAI when both courses are the same?

It shouldn't matter what your situation is, financial or otherwise, you're either good enough to get into the course or you're not. There shouldn't be two standards.

Why the hell should the government foot the bill of Joe Everyman's education? The whole point was to offer an incentive to meritorious students.

 

[jb_nc]

Why the hell should the government foot the bill of Joe Everyman's education? The whole point was to offer an incentive to meritorious students.

Because if I'm not educated I'm going to rob and kill you for $20 to buy a meal.

How about that.

 

[poppop]

As I pointed out to Captain Gh3y, I should have worded my post differently. All I'm really trying to say is why should there be different UAI cut-offs according to how you are going to pay for your course?
Why should one method have a lower UAI when both courses are the same?

It shouldn't matter what your situation is, financial or otherwise, you're either good enough to get into the course or you're not. There shouldn't be two standards.

yes, it's this double standards that concern me as well.

'Pay more money and we'll let you in.'

It's like legalised bribery!

 

[Azamakumar]

CSP is not the fucking standard entry procedure. The government rewards people that have worked harder.


How fucking hard is that to comprehend.

 

[Triangulum]

CSP is not the fucking standard entry procedure.

Yes it is. You can't have a standard entry procedure that's so expensive that a significant proportion of the population can't afford it.