Homosexuality in Australia (9 Viewers)

[Tully B.]

But heres the thing, it does. Its exactly the same, putting forward a kind of logical but not scientifically viable way of explaining what can't be explained.

But here's the thing, modifying scientific laws and theorizing new ones is not the same as the "baseless claims" that constitute the basis of all religion. Many/most scientist still call the "Big bang" a theory, because, as of yet, it can't be proven. It just fits pretty well with the given facts.

I'm not Iron. I do not expect you will go to hell even if you never believe.

For what it's worth, I respect you immensely for this.

 

[Lentern]

Then you dont worship the Jesus I worship, friendo. You worship the plastic Jesus that you made yourself for consolation

Is he the Jesus who said we don't get to judge, that it's his job? If so I think we may have the same guy.

 

[breezy221090]

The parts of christianity whcih tell of a vengeful god and all that are in the Old testament. Most of the new testament is about love and acceptance and all that shit. Jesus wasn't the one saying that everyone is going to hell. The actual beliefs of christianity which stem from the new testament are all about love and that stuff. And really anyone who still follows the old testament and it's commandments will be going to hell in their own eyes.

 

[Iron]

Is he the Jesus who said we don't get to judge, that it's his job? If so I think we may have the same guy.

There's a difference between accusing someone of sin and ignoring Christ when He said that "no one gets to the Father except through me".


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I feel like as soon as I start to make progress on my religious rants, some fool (supposedly on my side) comes in and crashes into the fragile house of cards, making all my labours in vain

 

[Lentern]

What do you actually mean when you say "The Big Bang could not have happened without trigger, and if it did then the Big Bang is effectively a religious theory."?

What does it have in common with a religious theory?

Anyway, no one is saying it definetly happened without a trigger. You simply can't know. There may have been a trigger for all we know. There are theories I have heard outlined that propose various hypothetical triggers. Or maybe there wasn't a trigger. The accepted truth is that we simply do not have enough evidence to ever decode the exact events of time=0, it will always be speculative, but we can theorize very close to this event.

Do you mind if I direct you to my answers to Kwayera? You two seem in lockstep.

 

[Graney]

But if god created everything, WHO CREATED GOD?!?!?!

It's an unsolvable question, by your reasoning, which is fundamentally correct, nothing should exist. Fact is, something did come from nothing at some point. It just as well might be with god as without. If a higher power does exist, he has to have come about spontaneously for no reason, just as much as the universe has to have done so.

We really need kfunk if we're to go through this, he recommended some reading I was meaning to buy on the fundamental question "why is there something, rather than nothing"?

 

[Iron]

But if god created everything, WHO CREATED GOD?!?!?!

It's an unsolvable question, by your reasoning, which is fundamentally correct, nothing should exist. Fact is, something did come from nothing at some point. It just as well might be with god as without. If a higher power does exist, he has to have come about spontaneously for no reason, just as much as the universe has to have done so.

We really need kfunk if we're to go through this, he recommended some reading I was meaning to buy on the fundamental question "why is there something, rather than nothing"?

Free your mind of the heavy shackles of father time and lady space ^_^

 

[Lentern]

But here's the thing, modifying scientific laws and theorizing new ones is not the same as the "baseless claims" that constitute the basis of all religion. Many/most scientist still call the "Big bang" a theory, because, as of yet, it can't be proven. It just fits pretty well with the given facts.

These claims are not without basis. There is a fair bit to say there was a bloke called Jesus around two hundred year ago who did some things that were beyond explanation then and still are today and most sources say this bloke attributed it to the God of Abraham. As for the big bang fitting so neatly it isn't exactly trying to fit a camel through a needle eye. "right after there was nothing, there was matter in its most basic form" good job.

 

[Lentern]

But if god created everything, WHO CREATED GOD?!?!?!

It's an unsolvable question, by your reasoning, which is fundamentally correct, nothing should exist. Fact is, something did come from nothing at some point. It just as well might be with god as without. If a higher power does exist, he has to have come about spontaneously for no reason, just as much as the universe has to have done so.

Would it change things at all if I added that if indeed there was a universe itself was that which began before anythine else was begotten that I am ok with such a theory I would just consider the universe itself a higher power.

 

[Lentern]

There's a difference between accusing someone of sin and ignoring Christ when He said that "no one gets to the Father except through me".


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I feel like as soon as I start to make progress on my religious rants, some fool (supposedly on my side) comes in and crashes into the fragile house of cards, making all my labours in vain

You're the band on the titanic, i'm the man trying to get catholics into the metaphoric lifeboats before we're all gone.

 

[Graney]

The creation of the universe by any means is entirely offensive to good reason. The only acceptable explanation is that the universe does not exist. You know it makes sense.

Descartes was a fool.

 

[breezy221090]

It's interesting that you traditional/ fundamentalist/ conservative (take your pick) christians find it fine to come on here preaching about god and what's going to happen to people who don't follow him.

However, it does make me wonder what gives you that right.

I mean I'm sure you follow the bible or god's/ jesus' 'wishes' exactly, I mean.

I'm sure you have never:
-have masturbated
- been intoxicated
- had sex before marriage
- gotten a piercing or tattoo
- interacted with non christians
- worn clothing made of more than one material
- argued with your parents

and so on and so forth.

 

[BradCube]

Wow, now I know why the "Does God Exist" thread has become so dead - all the discussion has moved into this one! Surely we are off topic when discussing religious implications of the big bang in a thread on homosexuality in Australia?

 

[SnowFox]

Wow, now I know why the "Does God Exist" thread has become so dead - all the discussion has moved into this one! Surely we are off topic when discussing religious implications of the big bang in a thread on homosexuality in Australia?

Yes, indeed it has.

 

[Graney]

I believe God has alway's been... noone needed to create him. I am not going to pretend to understand this because i do not. No one does, and we will not until heaven.

I believe the universe has alway's [sic] been... noone [sic] needed to create it.

This is called the steady state theory.

Really, what you're saying is a denial of any truth, and is offensive to logic.

If god doesn't need a cause, then why should the universe?

It's only logical, if you must demand a cause for the universe, you demand a cause for god.

 

[breezy221090]

wow i hope you are joking... of course i have gotten a piercing i have 4, i want a tattoo, i have just as many non-christian friends as i do christians, i do argue occasionally with my non-christian parents( i try not to), i am wearing clothing made out of more then one material, and i do have the occasional drink (although i ahve never been intoxicated), and am not going to have sex before marriage


all you presented was a completely ignorant view of christianity

That's true I did. And I'm not sure whether it was directed at you but it seems you think it was as you responded. The point being made was that people want to say that they condemn homosexuality because god says it's wrong but I'm sure that they do many things which god also says is wrong. So basically they're hypocrites. I am catholic but obviously I don't follow everything god or his prophets said (particularly the old testament) and therefore I don't have a right to say well you're going to hell or you shouldn't be homosexual coz that's not the way God wanted it.

 

[Iron]

That's true I did. And I'm not sure whether it was directed at you but it seems you think it was as you responded. The point being made was that people want to say that they condemn homosexuality because god says it's wrong but I'm sure that they do many things which god also says is wrong. So basically they're hypocrites. I am catholic but obviously I don't follow everything god or his prophets said (particularly the old testament) and therefore I don't have a right to say well you're going to hell or you shouldn't be homosexual coz that's not the way God wanted it.

You may not have the right, but God does and he has made his will clear through the bible

 

[B_B_J]

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Some people refer to the Bible as a "moral compass".

BBBBAAAAAHHHH

 

[SylviaB]

Infinite Regress FTW

 

[Tully B.]

These claims are not without basis. There is a fair bit to say there was a bloke called Jesus around two hundred year ago who did some things that were beyond explanation then and still are today and most sources say this bloke attributed it to the God of Abraham. As for the big bang fitting so neatly it isn't exactly trying to fit a camel through a needle eye. "right after there was nothing, there was matter in its most basic form" good job.

When I said "Baseless claims", I should have said "Basele ss claim". This claim, which forms the basis of all religions, is that there is a God. Even if you accept the existence of Jesus (which I do) and all his itty bitty miracles (which I don't), there will forever be a LEAP of faith (for what is faith without that leap?) in going from there to believing in an omniscient, omnipotent being.

Yea of faith don't say "I have this theory, much provided evidence supports this theory, if any evidence against this theory comes about, then I will change this theory". Instead, you say "I have this fact, everything agrees with this fact, there will never be anything to disagree with this fact. Full stop fuck off".