HotShot
-_-
source? where did u get the quotes from? which site?robbie1 said:
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Islam (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Korn
- Start date
robbie1
Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2005
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- HSC
- 2005
http://theodoresworld.net/pages/terrorists.htmHotShot said:
Why does it matter? These things are written in the Qu'ran.
HotShot
-_-
and the quran is written in arabic - how do you know if the translation is correct? and maybe it is taken out of context.robbie1 said:
its like reading the bible, skipping about 100 verses, and then reading one and then skipping another hundred.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html - read this.
snobby airlines
Member
to robbie1...if you go back to page 38 you would have read my posts regarding the Qur'an and its meaning. It's best to read it all.
To make it easier for you i'll paste it here:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to say that I am no muhaddith to be able to interpret the context of that hadith and its authenticity. You need to understand that hadith and Qur'an are a science.
You cannot simply provide a hadith or an ayah without proper context. That's very ignorant of you HaBiBi and seeing as though you've supposedly done your research, I would've thought better of you.
There are different classifications of Sahih (let alone hasan and da'eef); the narrators; the chain; the content all need to be analysed. One hadith may not suffice. There may be 2 or 3 others to support it or discredit it.
You do need to know that scholars have dedicated their entire lives (of about 40-50 years) memorising all the hadiths and the Qur'an. And then little miss habibi smarty pants comes along with her cut and paste jobs and decides to be a scholar too, how convenient.
It's just like me picking up a book on medicine and deciding that i know what needs to be done to treat someone who has Hepatitis B, for example. Is that legitimate? Or should i leave to the doctors who have studied 7 years or more?
Whether you read the translation or the arabic, it will not do justice. Have you studied the entire Qur'an to interpret it? Have you memorised the many thousands of hadiths which are used in conjuction to the Qur'an to support its verses? I'm afraid you haven't, but hey neither have I. There are those that are qualified though, and you might want to take knowledge off them - hence why i have recommended those 2 books, because all the interpreting is done for you
I'll give you an example of taking things out of context. This is regarding the prohibition of alcohol. Obviously during the early stages of Islam it was permissable to drink but there had to be a way to gradually reveal to them (the muslims) that it was going to be forbidden and not something that smacked them in the face out of thin air. This mainly occurs in four verses in the Qur'an which are not in the same chapters. Now if you were to read the first verse, you'd think "sweet, drinking is ok as it comes from dates and grapes". But there are the remainder of the verses which later prohibit its consumption.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that's where you're wrong. It's not to be taken literally. If you were to translate the Qur'an - "the foreign language can not deliver the polysemy of the Qur’anic style; many words in the Qur'an have more than one meaning, besides, the foreign language can never convey all these meanings in one word. If the translator chooses one of these meanings according to his methodology in translation, then the translation will be insufficient to deliver the whole message of verse.
Some Arabic words are used figuratively; message of the Qur’an might not be conveyed in case of translating the verse literally.
Some specific meanings are expressed in general words; if a translator tries to convey these words without referring to the specific meaning, he will not bring the aim of using these words in the Qur’an.
Arabic has its own unique style which is considered as the key to understand the rulings of Shari`ah, the matter which could not be transferred through any other language.
Because of the reasons mentioned above, and many other reasons, which proved that the literal meaning could not convey the message of the Qur’an, the scholars do not allow applying this kind of translation to the whole Qur’an but it may permissible in regard to certain verses.
....Of the literal understanding there are several kinds. The first concerns a clear text, i.e. a text clear and without ambiguity.
Example:
'But if he cannot afford it, he should fast three days during the Hajj and seven days on his return, making ten days in all' (Al-Qur'an 2: 196).
Still other verses imply a meaning through the context, although the wording itself is not clear.
Example:
'And out of kindness reward to them the wing of humility' (Al-Qur'an 17: 24).
This applies to parents, and not to all human beings in general, as the context of this verse suggests"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not necessarily the content of the hadiths that contradict themselves, rather the chain of narrators. There are many reasons why hadiths may not be sahih (authentic). For a hadith to be authentic it must fulfil 5 conditions. It's not as simple as you think. A hadith has been relayed over generations and there must be some sort of structure to keep it preserved.
Do you even know what a hadith is though? It's the sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Now the first to obviously narrate it are his companions then the pios predecessors and so on. Now if at least one narrator in that chain has not fulfilled all 5 of those conditions it drops that hadith to another classification. It's very complex.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
he received his first revelation in Makkah in the cave of Hira. And for a period of 23years during his lifetime - not all in the cave.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure about the meaning of this ayah, and you shouldn't jump to conclusions either. It could be in regards to a certain battle they were in? No one in this forum can explain to you what each verse in the Qur'an means, as we're not qualified. Well i'm not anyway. I am in the process though, as every person should be in order to make any sort of explanation of the verses.
Anyway, as routemaker quoted from the Qur'an: To you your religion, and to me, mine
Peace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends (and ally) with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are wrong-doers." (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)
This verse was revealed after the story of Asma’ and her mother. Imams Bukhari, Muslim and Ahmad reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr (R.A.) said: “My mother came to me while she was still a polytheist, so I asked Allah’s Messenger (S.A.W.), “My mother, who is ill-disposed to Islam, has come to visit me. She wants something from me. Shall I maintain relations with her?” He (S.A.W.) replied, “Yes, maintain relations with your mother.”
After Imam At-Tabari mentioned various opinions for the explanations of this verse, his final conclusion was that: “The most correct opinion in understanding this verse is that Muslims should be just, fair, and have the best relationship with all Non-Muslims who ‘do not fight against us on account of our religion and do not drive us out of our homes.’ This includes people of all faiths and sects and the support of this correct opinion came from the story of Asma’ with her mother.”
Sayyid Qutb also attempts to explain this verse, saying that:
“Islam is a Deen of peace and a conviction of love. It is a system that has compassion to all people. It gathers all people (Muslim and Non-Muslim) under the banner of Allah like brethren in accord and love. There is no obstacle that prevents this from happening except an aggression from its enemies against it and its people. If those enemies show peace, Islam does not want animosity or to start it. Even when the enemies still show animosity, Islam always looks for ways to bring the relationship to normalcy through great conduct and justice.”
He continues: “Islam allows Muslims to seek accord and love with Non-Muslims who did not fight them for their religion and expel them from their lands.”
He continues: “Islam makes peace as the normal relationship between Muslims and Non-Muslims. This relationship is not distracted except with an aggression that must be dealt with, a breaching of truce, an obstacle in the face of delivering the message of Islam, shackling the freedom of religion. Other than that, the relationship is a relationship of peace, love, justice for all people.” {In the Shade of Al-Qur’an, 6:3544.}
snobby airlines' note: See how much explanation is needed for just 2 verses? And see how these 2 verses were revealed after the Prophet told Asma' to keep relations with her mother?
You can't simply paste a verse and take it for what it says literally.
There's so much to know. *sigh* at those who think theyre scholars.
To make it easier for you i'll paste it here:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to say that I am no muhaddith to be able to interpret the context of that hadith and its authenticity. You need to understand that hadith and Qur'an are a science.
You cannot simply provide a hadith or an ayah without proper context. That's very ignorant of you HaBiBi and seeing as though you've supposedly done your research, I would've thought better of you.
There are different classifications of Sahih (let alone hasan and da'eef); the narrators; the chain; the content all need to be analysed. One hadith may not suffice. There may be 2 or 3 others to support it or discredit it.
You do need to know that scholars have dedicated their entire lives (of about 40-50 years) memorising all the hadiths and the Qur'an. And then little miss habibi smarty pants comes along with her cut and paste jobs and decides to be a scholar too, how convenient.
It's just like me picking up a book on medicine and deciding that i know what needs to be done to treat someone who has Hepatitis B, for example. Is that legitimate? Or should i leave to the doctors who have studied 7 years or more?
Whether you read the translation or the arabic, it will not do justice. Have you studied the entire Qur'an to interpret it? Have you memorised the many thousands of hadiths which are used in conjuction to the Qur'an to support its verses? I'm afraid you haven't, but hey neither have I. There are those that are qualified though, and you might want to take knowledge off them - hence why i have recommended those 2 books, because all the interpreting is done for you
I'll give you an example of taking things out of context. This is regarding the prohibition of alcohol. Obviously during the early stages of Islam it was permissable to drink but there had to be a way to gradually reveal to them (the muslims) that it was going to be forbidden and not something that smacked them in the face out of thin air. This mainly occurs in four verses in the Qur'an which are not in the same chapters. Now if you were to read the first verse, you'd think "sweet, drinking is ok as it comes from dates and grapes". But there are the remainder of the verses which later prohibit its consumption.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that's where you're wrong. It's not to be taken literally. If you were to translate the Qur'an - "the foreign language can not deliver the polysemy of the Qur’anic style; many words in the Qur'an have more than one meaning, besides, the foreign language can never convey all these meanings in one word. If the translator chooses one of these meanings according to his methodology in translation, then the translation will be insufficient to deliver the whole message of verse.
Some Arabic words are used figuratively; message of the Qur’an might not be conveyed in case of translating the verse literally.
Some specific meanings are expressed in general words; if a translator tries to convey these words without referring to the specific meaning, he will not bring the aim of using these words in the Qur’an.
Arabic has its own unique style which is considered as the key to understand the rulings of Shari`ah, the matter which could not be transferred through any other language.
Because of the reasons mentioned above, and many other reasons, which proved that the literal meaning could not convey the message of the Qur’an, the scholars do not allow applying this kind of translation to the whole Qur’an but it may permissible in regard to certain verses.
....Of the literal understanding there are several kinds. The first concerns a clear text, i.e. a text clear and without ambiguity.
Example:
'But if he cannot afford it, he should fast three days during the Hajj and seven days on his return, making ten days in all' (Al-Qur'an 2: 196).
Still other verses imply a meaning through the context, although the wording itself is not clear.
Example:
'And out of kindness reward to them the wing of humility' (Al-Qur'an 17: 24).
This applies to parents, and not to all human beings in general, as the context of this verse suggests"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not necessarily the content of the hadiths that contradict themselves, rather the chain of narrators. There are many reasons why hadiths may not be sahih (authentic). For a hadith to be authentic it must fulfil 5 conditions. It's not as simple as you think. A hadith has been relayed over generations and there must be some sort of structure to keep it preserved.
Do you even know what a hadith is though? It's the sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Now the first to obviously narrate it are his companions then the pios predecessors and so on. Now if at least one narrator in that chain has not fulfilled all 5 of those conditions it drops that hadith to another classification. It's very complex.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
he received his first revelation in Makkah in the cave of Hira. And for a period of 23years during his lifetime - not all in the cave.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure about the meaning of this ayah, and you shouldn't jump to conclusions either. It could be in regards to a certain battle they were in? No one in this forum can explain to you what each verse in the Qur'an means, as we're not qualified. Well i'm not anyway. I am in the process though, as every person should be in order to make any sort of explanation of the verses.
Anyway, as routemaker quoted from the Qur'an: To you your religion, and to me, mine
Peace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check this out:
"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends (and ally) with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are wrong-doers." (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)
This verse was revealed after the story of Asma’ and her mother. Imams Bukhari, Muslim and Ahmad reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr (R.A.) said: “My mother came to me while she was still a polytheist, so I asked Allah’s Messenger (S.A.W.), “My mother, who is ill-disposed to Islam, has come to visit me. She wants something from me. Shall I maintain relations with her?” He (S.A.W.) replied, “Yes, maintain relations with your mother.”
After Imam At-Tabari mentioned various opinions for the explanations of this verse, his final conclusion was that: “The most correct opinion in understanding this verse is that Muslims should be just, fair, and have the best relationship with all Non-Muslims who ‘do not fight against us on account of our religion and do not drive us out of our homes.’ This includes people of all faiths and sects and the support of this correct opinion came from the story of Asma’ with her mother.”
Sayyid Qutb also attempts to explain this verse, saying that:
“Islam is a Deen of peace and a conviction of love. It is a system that has compassion to all people. It gathers all people (Muslim and Non-Muslim) under the banner of Allah like brethren in accord and love. There is no obstacle that prevents this from happening except an aggression from its enemies against it and its people. If those enemies show peace, Islam does not want animosity or to start it. Even when the enemies still show animosity, Islam always looks for ways to bring the relationship to normalcy through great conduct and justice.”
He continues: “Islam allows Muslims to seek accord and love with Non-Muslims who did not fight them for their religion and expel them from their lands.”
He continues: “Islam makes peace as the normal relationship between Muslims and Non-Muslims. This relationship is not distracted except with an aggression that must be dealt with, a breaching of truce, an obstacle in the face of delivering the message of Islam, shackling the freedom of religion. Other than that, the relationship is a relationship of peace, love, justice for all people.” {In the Shade of Al-Qur’an, 6:3544.}
snobby airlines' note: See how much explanation is needed for just 2 verses? And see how these 2 verses were revealed after the Prophet told Asma' to keep relations with her mother?
You can't simply paste a verse and take it for what it says literally.
There's so much to know. *sigh* at those who think theyre scholars.
snobby airlines
Member
Not sure if you're bothered but maybe you should read this too (i've highlighted the important points):
Islam, a religion of Peace
Jihad
The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression. However, it must be said that the meaning of jihad, as a 'holy war', is something which is totally foreign and not from Islam. If anything, such a description belongs more so to Christianity and its adherents. It was terms like this which were used to justify the slaughter and pillage of towns and cities during the crusades by the Christians. By simply looking into the sources of Islam, one is able to know that the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allah. Thus striving in the way of Allah can be both peaceful and physical. The Prophet Muhammed (saws) said:
"The best jihad is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allah, The Mighty and Majestic" [3]
In the Qur'an, Allah also says:
"So obey not the disbelievers, but make a great jihad (effort) against them (by preaching) with it (the Qur'an)"
(Surah Al-Furqan 25:52)
By controlling and fighting against ones desires, the Muslims can then also physically exert themselves in the path of Allah. It is this physical or combative jihad which receives so much criticism. Because of the sheer ignorance of this type of jihad Islam is regarded as terror, and Muslims are regarded as terrorists. However, the very purpose of this physical jihad is to raise the word of Allah uppermost. By doing this, it liberates and emancipates all those who are crying out for freedom all over the world. If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. The combative jihad seeks to correct this as Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the Earth would be full of mischief. But Allah is full of bounty to the worlds"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:251)
Such would be the corruption on this Earth if there had never been a combative jihad that Allah says:
"For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is mentioned much, would surely have been pulled down. Indeed Allah will help those who help His (cause). Truly Allah is All strong, All mighty"
(Surah Al-Hajj 22:40)
This combative jihad being both defensive and offensive, is something which is commanded by Allah upon the Muslims. Through this command the oppressed and weak are rescued from the tyranny of the world:
"And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors and raise for us from you one who will protect and raise for us from you one who will help"
(Surah An-Nisa 4:75)
Anyone who knows the early history of Islam, will know that all those nations and empires which came under the fold of Islam were indeed previously oppressed. When the companions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) went out for the offensive jihad against the Egyptians, the Persians and the Romans, we find that the people did not resist against them at all. Rather, they accepted Islam on such a scale, that it is inconceivable that the jihad of Islam could be anything other then a liberation for these people; a liberation from centuries of tyranny. In fact, with the Byzantine Egyptians and the people of Spain, the Muslims were even beckoned to come and liberate these lands from the oppression of their kings. This is the glorious track record of the Muslim jihad. Compare this with the brutal track record of warfare in the Western world over the centuries. From the crusades against the Muslims to the days of colonial warfare, the Western world has killed, destroyed and plundered everything which has come in its way. Even today this merciless killing goes on by the Western nations. While claiming to be about world peace and security, Western nations are ready to bomb innocent civilians at the drop of a hat. The classic example of this is the recent bombings of Sudan and Afghanistan. Whilst claiming that Sudan and Afghanistan were havens for Islamic terrorists, the bombings of these two nations could not have come at a better time for the American president Bill Clinton. The destruction of innocent lives which were a result of these bombings clearly seem to have been an attempt by Clinton to avert attention away from his sexual misdemeanours; [4] something which he so often gets caught up in. Without doubt this was the reason for such terror from the American military upon innocent people. This is the same American military which claims to enter the worlds trouble spots under the guise of being peace keepers. But
"… when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)
The hypocrisy of the West is indeed astounding.
By looking at the rules and regulations of this combative jihad it will be clear to any sincere person that this is indeed the religion of truth. When fighting an unjust enemy, no matter how unjust they are, it is forbidden by Islam that their retreating forces are mutilated, tortured or slaughtered. The treacherous violation of treaties and carrying out assassinations after a cease fire, are also prohibited. Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)
Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allah (saws) "forbade the killing of women and children" [5]. Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:
"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity"
(Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)
After reading such passages from the Qur'an and knowing about what Islam commands and prohibits in jihad, the rules of warfare are given a new meaning; a meaning of justice. How sad it is then, that whilst Islam is condemned for striking terror into the hearts of the people, the likes of the Serbs, the Indian army in Kashmir and the Israeli soldiers in Palestine are left untarnished for the atrocities they have committed in the name of warfare.
So what about suicide bombing, is this too a part of jihad in Allah's path? From what has already been stated above, it can be deduced that this is not from the religion. However, unfortunately many Muslims have taken suicide bombing as being a virtuous act by which one receives reward. This could not be further from the truth. The Prophet (saws) said: "Those who go to extremes are destroyed" [6]. Suicide bombing is undoubtedly an extremity which has reached the ranks of the Muslims. In the rules of warfare, we find no sanction for such an act from the behaviour and words of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and his companions.
Unfortunately, today (some misguided) Muslims believe that such acts are paving the way for an Islamic revival and a return to the rule of Islam's glorious law. However, we fail to bear in mind that the Prophet (saws) said:
"Do not be delighted by the action of anyone, until you see how he ends up" [7]
So, for example what is the end of a suicide bomber in Palestine?, a leg here, an arm there. Massive retaliation by the Israeli's in the West Bank and Gaza. More Muslims killed and persecuted. How can we be delighted with such an end? What really hammers the final nail in the coffin of this act, is that it is suicide; something which is clearly forbidden in Islam. The Messenger of Allah (saws) said:
"He who kills himself with anything, Allah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell" [8]
Some are under the misconception that by killing oneself for an Islamic cause, one commits an act which deserves Paradise. Once when a man killed himself, the Prophet (saws) said: "He is a dweller of the Fire". When the people were surprised at this, the Prophet (saws) said:
"A person performs the deeds which to the people appears to be the deeds befitting the dweller of Paradise, but he is in fact one of the dwellers of the Fire" [9]
The taking of ones life which Allah has given as a trust to the human, is a great sin. Likewise the taking of other lives (which is so often the case with suicide bombing) is also forbidden, as human life is indeed precious:
"...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind"
(Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)
Thus, all other types of extremities such as hostage taking, hijacking and planting bombs in public places, are clearly forbidden in Islam.
Islam, a religion of Peace
Jihad
The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression. However, it must be said that the meaning of jihad, as a 'holy war', is something which is totally foreign and not from Islam. If anything, such a description belongs more so to Christianity and its adherents. It was terms like this which were used to justify the slaughter and pillage of towns and cities during the crusades by the Christians. By simply looking into the sources of Islam, one is able to know that the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allah. Thus striving in the way of Allah can be both peaceful and physical. The Prophet Muhammed (saws) said:
"The best jihad is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allah, The Mighty and Majestic" [3]
In the Qur'an, Allah also says:
"So obey not the disbelievers, but make a great jihad (effort) against them (by preaching) with it (the Qur'an)"
(Surah Al-Furqan 25:52)
By controlling and fighting against ones desires, the Muslims can then also physically exert themselves in the path of Allah. It is this physical or combative jihad which receives so much criticism. Because of the sheer ignorance of this type of jihad Islam is regarded as terror, and Muslims are regarded as terrorists. However, the very purpose of this physical jihad is to raise the word of Allah uppermost. By doing this, it liberates and emancipates all those who are crying out for freedom all over the world. If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. The combative jihad seeks to correct this as Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the Earth would be full of mischief. But Allah is full of bounty to the worlds"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:251)
Such would be the corruption on this Earth if there had never been a combative jihad that Allah says:
"For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is mentioned much, would surely have been pulled down. Indeed Allah will help those who help His (cause). Truly Allah is All strong, All mighty"
(Surah Al-Hajj 22:40)
This combative jihad being both defensive and offensive, is something which is commanded by Allah upon the Muslims. Through this command the oppressed and weak are rescued from the tyranny of the world:
"And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors and raise for us from you one who will protect and raise for us from you one who will help"
(Surah An-Nisa 4:75)
Anyone who knows the early history of Islam, will know that all those nations and empires which came under the fold of Islam were indeed previously oppressed. When the companions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) went out for the offensive jihad against the Egyptians, the Persians and the Romans, we find that the people did not resist against them at all. Rather, they accepted Islam on such a scale, that it is inconceivable that the jihad of Islam could be anything other then a liberation for these people; a liberation from centuries of tyranny. In fact, with the Byzantine Egyptians and the people of Spain, the Muslims were even beckoned to come and liberate these lands from the oppression of their kings. This is the glorious track record of the Muslim jihad. Compare this with the brutal track record of warfare in the Western world over the centuries. From the crusades against the Muslims to the days of colonial warfare, the Western world has killed, destroyed and plundered everything which has come in its way. Even today this merciless killing goes on by the Western nations. While claiming to be about world peace and security, Western nations are ready to bomb innocent civilians at the drop of a hat. The classic example of this is the recent bombings of Sudan and Afghanistan. Whilst claiming that Sudan and Afghanistan were havens for Islamic terrorists, the bombings of these two nations could not have come at a better time for the American president Bill Clinton. The destruction of innocent lives which were a result of these bombings clearly seem to have been an attempt by Clinton to avert attention away from his sexual misdemeanours; [4] something which he so often gets caught up in. Without doubt this was the reason for such terror from the American military upon innocent people. This is the same American military which claims to enter the worlds trouble spots under the guise of being peace keepers. But
"… when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)
The hypocrisy of the West is indeed astounding.
By looking at the rules and regulations of this combative jihad it will be clear to any sincere person that this is indeed the religion of truth. When fighting an unjust enemy, no matter how unjust they are, it is forbidden by Islam that their retreating forces are mutilated, tortured or slaughtered. The treacherous violation of treaties and carrying out assassinations after a cease fire, are also prohibited. Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)
Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allah (saws) "forbade the killing of women and children" [5]. Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:
"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity"
(Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)
After reading such passages from the Qur'an and knowing about what Islam commands and prohibits in jihad, the rules of warfare are given a new meaning; a meaning of justice. How sad it is then, that whilst Islam is condemned for striking terror into the hearts of the people, the likes of the Serbs, the Indian army in Kashmir and the Israeli soldiers in Palestine are left untarnished for the atrocities they have committed in the name of warfare.
So what about suicide bombing, is this too a part of jihad in Allah's path? From what has already been stated above, it can be deduced that this is not from the religion. However, unfortunately many Muslims have taken suicide bombing as being a virtuous act by which one receives reward. This could not be further from the truth. The Prophet (saws) said: "Those who go to extremes are destroyed" [6]. Suicide bombing is undoubtedly an extremity which has reached the ranks of the Muslims. In the rules of warfare, we find no sanction for such an act from the behaviour and words of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and his companions.
Unfortunately, today (some misguided) Muslims believe that such acts are paving the way for an Islamic revival and a return to the rule of Islam's glorious law. However, we fail to bear in mind that the Prophet (saws) said:
"Do not be delighted by the action of anyone, until you see how he ends up" [7]
So, for example what is the end of a suicide bomber in Palestine?, a leg here, an arm there. Massive retaliation by the Israeli's in the West Bank and Gaza. More Muslims killed and persecuted. How can we be delighted with such an end? What really hammers the final nail in the coffin of this act, is that it is suicide; something which is clearly forbidden in Islam. The Messenger of Allah (saws) said:
"He who kills himself with anything, Allah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell" [8]
Some are under the misconception that by killing oneself for an Islamic cause, one commits an act which deserves Paradise. Once when a man killed himself, the Prophet (saws) said: "He is a dweller of the Fire". When the people were surprised at this, the Prophet (saws) said:
"A person performs the deeds which to the people appears to be the deeds befitting the dweller of Paradise, but he is in fact one of the dwellers of the Fire" [9]
The taking of ones life which Allah has given as a trust to the human, is a great sin. Likewise the taking of other lives (which is so often the case with suicide bombing) is also forbidden, as human life is indeed precious:
"...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind"
(Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)
Thus, all other types of extremities such as hostage taking, hijacking and planting bombs in public places, are clearly forbidden in Islam.
HotShot
-_-
think u just got hammered bud... u might have read the bible (i doubt u have), but u have u read the quran?robbie1 said:
ElendilPeredhil
Member
Must we get into 'which holy book has more passages that could be interpreted as violent'?
It's a futile argument.
It's also childish.
It's a futile argument.
It's also childish.
snobby airlines said:
Perhaps that those muslims against those extreamists should be making their own jihad (if the meaning above is true): one that ensures peace and understanding. People are only afraid of what they don't understand, therefore wouldn't it be logical for the moderates of the world to step up, condemn what is being done and make a positive awareness of their religion.
The quote is not asking for war and bloodshed and it is not asking for the conversion of people, it is asking those individuals who seek it to do it on a personal level. Isn't that obvious?
snobby airlines
Member
It's already happening. But they aren't heard. Media mate. It's taking over people's minds. Positive awareness campaigns are happening all over the world. I can name a few happening right here in Syd.LynH1326 said:
Because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean its not happening. And the muslims with power in high positions...well they're not extreme nor are they moderate. I like to call them puppets. Moderate muslims who follow the true Islam are 1. trying to improve their relationship with God, and their own character and 2. trying to prevent these extreme mentalities by focussing on the root problem (their belief)
Everyone knows, or should know this isn't Islam. Otherwise, your muslim neighbour would have ripped your homes a part by now don't you think?
Striving against oneself is more to do with your inner ego. Controlling yourself from anger, abstaining from backbiting, curing your diseased heart and tongue.
Anyway, to all the muslims on the board - Have a happy Eid!
soha
a splendid one to behold
Absolutely Fabulousagentprovocater said:
Alhamdulilah
This is in fact, a very difficult set of questions that i'm going to ask you.
Okay, i've read the posts in this forum, and according to whats been said, Islam is a peaceful religion, etc.
So why then:
Okay, i've read the posts in this forum, and according to whats been said, Islam is a peaceful religion, etc.
So why then:
- Are Christians all over the middle east, who dont attack Islam, who try to live their lives peacefully, not only attacked, kidnapped, forced to convert to Islam, discriminated, boycotted in terms of buying goods from them,etc? Sure, you've got an excuse with israel and everything. But not Christians. Two examples that you can directly refer to is the Coptic Christians in Egypt, the Catholic Lebanese, and the underground Christians of Iran (yes that right! There are ACTUALLY Christians in Iran! Don look so suprised people! Try reading about the Islamic revolution once in a while! )
- Are Christians/Non-Muslims forced to walk on one side of the street, away from Muslims, in Saudia Arabia
- Is there a Pakistani man who's hiding in England, from a fatwah giving from Aotollah (or something like that) Khomeni, for translating the Qu'ran?
- Is that as Muslims become more devout and deeper in their faith, they become more fundementalist?
- Why does THIS happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsHn6LoO-ro
(not for the faint hearted, its not violent though) - And lastly, why is that Muslims are forbidden to Translate the Qu'ran (If you see the Qu'ran in English, its an interpretation, try looking up the meaning of the word to see the difference)
flipsyde
Shutup!...that's why
I'm talking maily to SM10 because its in relation to the video but also to those people out there who believe every word that they hear in the bible.
I am not a christian. I was a christain for 13 years, my whole family is christian (SoI still celebrate Christmas etc etc). I have also Buddist, and no I haven't been muslim because I choose not to (the same goes with Hindi and Taoism, its just a choice I made),but I'm satisfied being agnostic now. Mainly due to the fact that I believe any religion worth-while would not hate or persecute those who believe against them. Rather they would accept them.
As for that video, and how the 31/2 year old muslim girl was taling about how they don't like the Jews, and how they are killing the Jews... hello! look at what the Christians did to to the Jews, and their own prophet was a Jew. A lot of people have been brainwashed into being fundamentalists and believing in exactly what they read in the bible or quran (sorry if I spelt that wrong). Most of the people in Iraq etc are fundamentalists and extremists (sorry if I'm wrong please correct me), they don't look at the stories in the quran as symbolism of their gods power, or their peoples faith.
Take the bible for example, genisis 1:1 the story of the creation of the world. Of course we know this story isn't true and that god didn't create everything from nothing. But it is a symbol of his power and how almighty he is in order to have created something from nothing. The same as Jesus dying and rising again, its symbolism that even after the death of Jesus his spirit was still alive in the hearts of Christians, because that's how strong their faith is.
So the quran and bible are not meant to be taken literally ok. Its just the ones that do that are making the muslims look like terrorists. I mean if you took the bible literally you'd be taking 'an eye of an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'. Matthew 5:38. If you did that then everyone would be walking around blind and eating paste.
FYI: Deuteronomy 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot
Yet the bible lists "thou shall not kill" ( Exodus 20:1-17) as a comandment.... Yes HotShot, I have read the bible to
I am not a christian. I was a christain for 13 years, my whole family is christian (SoI still celebrate Christmas etc etc). I have also Buddist, and no I haven't been muslim because I choose not to (the same goes with Hindi and Taoism, its just a choice I made),but I'm satisfied being agnostic now. Mainly due to the fact that I believe any religion worth-while would not hate or persecute those who believe against them. Rather they would accept them.
As for that video, and how the 31/2 year old muslim girl was taling about how they don't like the Jews, and how they are killing the Jews... hello! look at what the Christians did to to the Jews, and their own prophet was a Jew. A lot of people have been brainwashed into being fundamentalists and believing in exactly what they read in the bible or quran (sorry if I spelt that wrong). Most of the people in Iraq etc are fundamentalists and extremists (sorry if I'm wrong please correct me), they don't look at the stories in the quran as symbolism of their gods power, or their peoples faith.
Take the bible for example, genisis 1:1 the story of the creation of the world. Of course we know this story isn't true and that god didn't create everything from nothing. But it is a symbol of his power and how almighty he is in order to have created something from nothing. The same as Jesus dying and rising again, its symbolism that even after the death of Jesus his spirit was still alive in the hearts of Christians, because that's how strong their faith is.
So the quran and bible are not meant to be taken literally ok. Its just the ones that do that are making the muslims look like terrorists. I mean if you took the bible literally you'd be taking 'an eye of an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'. Matthew 5:38. If you did that then everyone would be walking around blind and eating paste.
FYI: Deuteronomy 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot
Yet the bible lists "thou shall not kill" ( Exodus 20:1-17) as a comandment.... Yes HotShot, I have read the bible to
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HotShot
-_-
Wat do you do in your new year?flipsyde said:
$hiftyIceQueen
Banned
flipsyde said:
People go to the mosque and pray and celebrate with family and friends. They also give money/food to the poor. Oh and you get lots of money