Israel–Gaza conflict (2 Viewers)

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

ok fine. egypt sucks for that. this does not improve israel's image.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

death to israel

 

[banco55]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Egypt, which has been blockading Gaza from its southern end, has come under pressure from the rest of the Arab world to reopen its border with the territory because of the Israeli campaign. Egypt has pried open the border to let in some of Gaza's wounded and to allow some humanitarian supplies to enter the territory. But it quickly sealed the border when Gazans tried to push through forcefully.

The Associated Press: Israel mulls truce offer on Day 4 of Gaza assault

An arab is wrong again ha ha

LOL everyone knows that Mubarak is saying a little prayer every time another Hamas foot soldier gets killed by Israel.

 

[moll.]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

BTW The land that the muslims gained was gained by the sword, their land, including Saudi Arabia (which was for pagan tribes conquered by mohammad), but especially Israel, can not be claimed by them since it is not for them, and in that view they are losing the very same thing they gained by the sword, by the sword.

You've also conveniently forgotten that the Israelis under Moses stole that land from the native Canaanites by slaughtering the local populace and waging a holy war upon the pagans. By the sword, indeed.

 

[stazi]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

you're also conveniently forgetting that white power

 

[Jessica14]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Quite true. Many don't believe this though, and make the mistake of sticking collateral damage in the margins as if it doesn't count. It does count. It is a consequence. It needs to be taken into account. One dead Hamas militant + 100 dead Palestinian civilians does not mean it's good.

Evidence please, Nebs. You're a better contester than that.

The United Nations, which has estimated the number of dead to be between 320 and 390, said 25 percent of those killed were civilians. Israel said that it was still checking the numbers.

Logic stipulates that, according to these figures, 75 percent of those killed were Hamas militants. Obviously, the Times cannot verify the accuracy of these statistics, clearly indicating that they are estimating, but nonetheless, it provides fairly sufficient evidence that the Israeli Air Force have executed these strikes on Hamas military compounds with relative precision.

Regardless of this, the Israeli government finds itself in breach of international law, in particular, Article Three of the Fourth Geneva Convention (on the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War), the breach a war crime in itself. I am on point with you there.

 

[Jessica14]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

On another point, do you think international pressure will be enough for the cessation of this portion of the Israeli-Palenstinian conflict?

JERUSALEM — Israel sought on Wednesday to fend off growing international pressure over civilian casualties from its military assault on Gaza, saying it would expedite and increase humanitarian aid and work with its allies to build a durable, long-term truce. But Israel would not agree to a proposed 48-hour cease-fire.

The full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/world/middleeast/01mideast.html?_r=1&emc=tnt&tntemail1=y

The provision of humanitarian aid to the Gazans will assist the Israeli government with its image in the international community.

 

[Jessica14]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

You've also conveniently forgotten that the Israelis under Moses stole that land from the native Canaanites by slaughtering the local populace and waging a holy war upon the pagans. By the sword, indeed.

Tom-ay-to, Tom-ah-to. The only thing that human beings have been consistently good at since our birth several million years is our ability to annihilate one another. Given our bloody history, one could use it to support any argument. You could use the "stolen land" card in any situation.

Some posters in this forum (not you moll. I'm not making you the scapegoat of my argument) fail to recognise that the main difference that separates the modern Israeli's assuming power of the land of Israel (or Palestine) after the second World War and the colonisation of Australia and the US, as well as other countries, by the British, is that British colonisation occurred centuries ago and the Israeli incursion took place only sixty years ago.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Evidence please, Nebs. You're a better contester than that.

It was a clear exaggeration mang. The point was clear, the numbers were an illustration.

Logic stipulates that, according to these figures, 75 percent of those killed were Hamas militants. Obviously, the Times cannot verify the accuracy of these statistics, clearly indicating that they are estimating, but nonetheless, it provides fairly sufficient evidence that the Israeli Air Force have executed these strikes on Hamas military compounds with relative precision.

Relative precision? Relative to what exactly? An atomic bomb?

Also, can we ascertain what ranks these Hamas militants had? SMH said that most were low ranking people looking to earn some money in the police force etc. This police force that had nothing to do with the launching of rockets into Israel. They were Hamas militants by title only.

Then there's the "25%" dead civllians

And the upcoming ground invasion which will target anyone with anything more than a stick in their hand

Very precise.

Some posters in this forum (not you moll. I'm not making you the scapegoat of my argument) fail to recognise that the main difference that separates the modern Israeli's assuming power of the land of Israel (or Palestine) after the second World War and the colonisation of Australia and the US, as well as other countries, by the British, is that British colonisation occurred centuries ago and the Israeli incursion took place only sixty years ago.

Or that in the case of Australia, there's no effort by the Aboriginies to kick us out, no rockets, or anything like that. In the case of Israel, there's a clear backlash by the original owners of the land.

And even if Australian colonisation is equvilent to the Jewish INVASION, that doesn't make what Israel has done right. COME ON JESSICA14, UR BETTER THAN THAT.

---

Lastly, let me once again point out how disproportionate Israel's response is. Israel should respond to make sure none of its people are killed (I disagree, but let's go on anyway). How many were killed? 0. What was the chance that an Israeli would have been killed? Small. Israel then bombs Gaza. Scores of civilians, low ranking Hamas members and a few Hamas kingpins killed. Chance of rocket attacks ending? Zero. Chance of suicide bombings resuming? High. Chance of support for Hamas increasing (ala Hezbollah)? High. Chance of Israel's claim to moral superiority amongst world leaders decreasing? Absolute.

 

[nikolas]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

You've also conveniently forgotten that the Israelis under Moses stole that land from the native Canaanites by slaughtering the local populace and waging a holy war upon the pagans. By the sword, indeed.

I don't mean to take sides in an issue i don't fully understand or have a great deal off knowledge on, but... danyans post still counters "The Israelis took the land via force" argument.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

no, it doesnt. it just says that the arabs are a bunch of hypocrites.

but that was then and this is now. israel is an international bully who quite recently acquired land by very questionable means.

 

[Crestwood's_G]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

death to arabs

 

[Jessica14]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

It was a clear exaggeration mang. The point was clear, the numbers were an illustration.

Understood. Your meaning was clear enough, I just did not believe it to be appropriate. Then again, you are against Israeli actions so I can see how said illustration is apparent to you.

Relative precision? Relative to what exactly? An atomic bomb?

Also, can we ascertain what ranks these Hamas militants had? SMH said that most were low ranking people looking to earn some money in the police force etc. This police force that had nothing to do with the launching of rockets into Israel. They were Hamas militants by title only.

Then there's the "25%" dead civllians

And the upcoming ground invasion which will target anyone with anything more than a stick in their hand

Very precise.

I agree that the proportion of civilians killed so far is call for concern and that the imminent terrestrial offensive is likely to increase the number of fatalities, but I must disagree with you on the point that the Israeli soldiers will kill indiscriminately. This attack has already gained far too much negative press for the Israeli government and its people. How do you think the rest of the civilised world will react when Al Jazeera shows footage of soldiers cutting through hoards of defenceless civilians? I believe that they will distinguish militants from non-combatants and if they're armed, then they're not civilians. At least not in the eyes of the Israeli army and the Palestinians would have worked this out by now. They will be steering clear of weaponry if they want to stay alive.

Or that in the case of Australia, there's no effort by the Aboriginies to kick us out, no rockets, or anything like that. In the case of Israel, there's a clear backlash by the original owners of the land.

And even if Australian colonisation is equvilent to the Jewish INVASION, that doesn't make what Israel has done right. COME ON JESSICA14, UR BETTER THAN THAT.

Well, the British did succeed in wiping out most of the Indigenous Australian population and they threw spears back at them. Again, the greatest difference between the two situations is the era in which they occurred. I eagerly anticipate your response, Nebs.

---

Lastly, let me once again point out how disproportionate Israel's response is. Israel should respond to make sure none of its people are killed (I disagree, but let's go on anyway). How many were killed? 0. What was the chance that an Israeli would have been killed? Small. Israel then bombs Gaza. Scores of civilians, low ranking Hamas members and a few Hamas kingpins killed. Chance of rocket attacks ending? Zero. Chance of suicide bombings resuming? High. Chance of support for Hamas increasing (ala Hezbollah)? High. Chance of Israel's claim to moral superiority amongst world leaders decreasing? Absolute.

The Israeli response is a retaliatory strike against years degrading attacks by Hamas "terrorists," and Israel is not the only country to respond in this manner. The US invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq (I know that you probably disagree with both). One was a retaliatory strike against a militant terrorist group residing in the country and the other was a pre-emptive strike. There is also the consideration that the US government was attempting to remove an oppressive dictatroship, but that is not the basis of my argument.

My point is that the military operations of both countries were in serious breach of the human rights of many civilians, as stipulated, for the most part, by the Fourth Geneva Convention on the Rights of Civilian Persons in Times or War. Regardless of this, it was deemed to be a necessary military operation in each case. For both the American and the Israeli government, it comes down to a matter of whether or not the ends justify the means.

 

[chewy123]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

but that was then and this is now. israel is an international bully who quite recently acquired land by very questionable means.

Can you tell me about more? Is there a link to a newspaper article or something?

 

[chewy123]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

What incited Hamas to break the ceasefire in the first place?

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

What incited Hamas to break the ceasefire in the first place?

lol, maybe the fact that israel are slowly starving the palestinian people with aid blockades and making it near impossible for the barest of essentials to get through

 

[Jessica14]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

What incited Hamas to break the ceasefire in the first place?

jb nc's answer is also true, but Hamas are devoted to the destruction of Israel. It is that fact that has earned them the rap of being a terrorist organisation. Breaking the ceasefire was inevitable.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

jb nc's answer is also true, but Hamas are devoted to the destruction of Israel. It is that fact that has earned them the rap of being a terrorist organisation. Breaking the ceasefire was inevitable.

im p sure they removed that "DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL" thing from their charter

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

*lives in squallor*

*goes to school*

*is killed with 1000 kg bomb dropped by the IDF*

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

ok fine. egypt sucks for that. this does not improve israel's image.

It also proved that your argument "israel blockade of gaza cause cause civilian death, lack of medicine blah blah blah... they can get all of those from Egypt border if their fellow Arab neighbour choose to open its border. Obviously nobody want to open their border to terrorist Hamas, even their own arab brothers. Hardly Israeli fault ha ha...