Israel attacks Lebanon (2 Viewers)

[banco55]

Yes, allegedly. I wonder what excuse they have for bombing roads, bridges, buildings and so on.



They fired a missile within 100metres of a hospital. Al Manar has full coverage.



Are you referring to the Egyptian ship? What the hell would an Egyptian ship be doing in the middle of a warzone between Lebanon and Israel? They're either very stupid or aiding Israel. As for Hezb, you're right, but they're only doing that NOW after open war has been declared (and give warning). They were initially only targeting military areas despite Israel attacking civilian areas. And they're firing of rockets into Israel is no more ''blind'' or random than Israel's attacks at Lebanon.



No, I'm not talking about the numbers in terms of how many people have been killed. I'm talking about how the majority of people killed by Israel has been civilians whereas the majority of people killed by Hezbullah has been soldiers. Think about it.



It's very funny you say that seeing as it was Israel who refused to hold negotiations at the start of all this.

It would be a lot easier to move hostages over roads etc. to Syria/Iran. I don't think anyone seriously thinks they'd fly them out of Beirut when Israel has control of the air. As for the 100 m from a hospital bomb the bombs the Israelis use are top of the line precision weapons and they'd know exactly where they are going to land. Of course Israel wasn't going to negotiate for the rather obvious reason that it would encourage Hezbollah to take more soldiers.

 

[littlewing69]

They fired a missile within 100metres of a hospital. Al Manar has full coverage.

Okay, thanks for the heads-up.

Are you referring to the Egyptian ship? What the hell would an Egyptian ship be doing in the middle of a warzone between Lebanon and Israel? They're either very stupid or aiding Israel. As for Hezb, you're right, but they're only doing that NOW after open war has been declared (and give warning). They were initially only targeting military areas despite Israel attacking civilian areas. And they're firing of rockets into Israel is no more ''blind'' or random than Israel's attacks at Lebanon.

An Egyptian vessel aiding Israel??? And Israel is attacking with precision and direction. Hezbollah lacks the technological wherewithall to manage that, even if they wished to.

 

[nandayo]

I just read all 13 pages, and here's my two cents:

Neither side is "right" and neither side is "wrong" because each aren't clearly identifiable. Israeli government is mixed with Israeli extremists who are mixed with other groups. Lebanese government is mixed with Lebanese extremists and hezbollah groups. Both sides are equally at fault, but as far as motives go, I say Israel scores better in my books.

The majority of Lebanese people, and espec. Hezbollah supporters want-Israel-destroyed. They have for decades, and they stop at nothing to keep the wheel turning. Israel has put up with a lot, and (naturally) so has Lebanon. Jews have a right to their own state, and non-Jewish Israelis have a right to their own country. If the hezbollah supporters and majority of Lebanese groups support destruction of the Jewish State, and refuse to settle with ridiculously generous offers like the 2000 '98%' negotiation, then Israel has the right to defend its existence.

Nobody can expect any country to attack a terrorist group in another country without hitting civilians. I understand that a missile hitting a target 100m away from a hospital is worrying. But did it hit the hospital? No. And was hitting the hospital its purpose? Most likely not. Because destroying Lebanon is not the aim, destroying Hezbollah is. Israel doesn't care if a few civilians get killed, sure it's not what they want, but if it is necessary for the survival of Israel, it is a risk they are willing to take.

I don't think I'm supporting Israel 100%, but Jesus Christ can people see their motives? Decades of being attacked has taken its toll, they're pissed. They've tried everything to negotiate, and that hasn't worked. So now, they're just trying to get the message across - through a different medium. A controversial and bloody medium.

But this isn't an eye for eye. To them, the logic seems: Our eye goes, or their eye goes. And despite how many people here disagree with me. If I were an Israeli, I'd want the same thing. If I were a Lebanese, I'd want revenge. But Israel is seeking justice at any cost, Lebanon is seeking revenge at any cost. In my eyes, justice is more important.

 

[Mc_Meaney]

When has Hezbullah carried out suicide bombings targetting civilians? Furthermore, when has Hezbullah ever condoned the killing of innocents? Hezbullah formed as a response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982.

I didnt say Hizbollah, I said HAMAS THe leadership of PALESTINE.

 

[Mc_Meaney]

The civilian wing of Hezbollah runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities and participates in the Lebanese Parliament. Its Reconstruction Campaign (Jihad al-Bina) is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Shia-populated areas of Lebanon.

Military wing is seperate to the civilian wing that is so important to Lebanon.

Hezbollah supports the destruction of the state of Israel and co-operates with other militant Islamic organizations such as Hamas in order to promote this goal.

Nothing more need be said.

http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/Hizbullah.htm

The violence of Islamic Jihad catapulted Hizbullah to prominence

IJ is the terrorist wing of the Hizbollah. Think for a minute now, who are the two most prominant organisations mentioned in relation to a suicide bombing in Israel - Hamas (Palestinian leaders) and Islamic Jihad the extremist end of Hezbellah.

Oh and for examples, see the above site. They don't just attack Israel.

Rink, I pose a question to you

Since you disagree with the Israeli foward defence claim in bombing Lebanon to chase down and destroy Hizbollah, did you also disagree with the American invasion of Afghanistan in an attempt to end Al-qada? What about the occupation of Iraq, to remove Saddam Hussien (a crazy terrorist dictator with "WMDs"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Grapes_of_Wrath
This shit has happened before, and will bloody well happen again. You can cut of the head of a terrorist organisation, but a new one will just grow back.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

 

[dovidg]

I just read all 13 pages, and here's my two cents:

Neither side is "right" and neither side is "wrong" because each aren't clearly identifiable. Israeli government is mixed with Israeli extremists who are mixed with other groups. Lebanese government is mixed with Lebanese extremists and hezbollah groups. Both sides are equally at fault, but as far as motives go, I say Israel scores better in my books.

The majority of Lebanese people, and espec. Hezbollah supporters want-Israel-destroyed. They have for decades, and they stop at nothing to keep the wheel turning. Israel has put up with a lot, and (naturally) so has Lebanon. Jews have a right to their own state, and non-Jewish Israelis have a right to their own country. If the hezbollah supporters and majority of Lebanese groups support destruction of the Jewish State, and refuse to settle with ridiculously generous offers like the 2000 '98%' negotiation, then Israel has the right to defend its existence.

Nobody can expect any country to attack a terrorist group in another country without hitting civilians. I understand that a missile hitting a target 100m away from a hospital is worrying. But did it hit the hospital? No. And was hitting the hospital its purpose? Most likely not. Because destroying Lebanon is not the aim, destroying Hezbollah is. Israel doesn't care if a few civilians get killed, sure it's not what they want, but if it is necessary for the survival of Israel, it is a risk they are willing to take.

I don't think I'm supporting Israel 100%, but Jesus Christ can people see their motives? Decades of being attacked has taken its toll, they're pissed. They've tried everything to negotiate, and that hasn't worked. So now, they're just trying to get the message across - through a different medium. A controversial and bloody medium.

But this isn't an eye for eye. To them, the logic seems: Our eye goes, or their eye goes. And despite how many people here disagree with me. If I were an Israeli, I'd want the same thing. If I were a Lebanese, I'd want revenge. But Israel is seeking justice at any cost, Lebanon is seeking revenge at any cost. In my eyes, justice is more important.

nandayo you truly are a genius and a legend and have read the situation soooooooo correctly! i praise you and just wish there were more people like you in the world who could see the situation as it really is! able to see the truth through all the garbage out there and the crazy propaganda! i wish the whole world could read what you wrote!

 

[littlewing69]

Bad news:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/15/ap/world/mainD8ISG5FO3.shtml

 

[Sepulchres]

An Egyptian vessel aiding Israel??? And Israel is attacking with precision and direction. Hezbollah lacks the technological wherewithall to manage that, even if they wished to.

I thought they blamed all the civilian casualties on technical/human error? And mind you, Israel has quite a lot of them. Wheres the precision in that? As if Israel would've refrained from these attack if their precision wasnt accurate, which it isnt really anyway. Or maybe it is accurate and they deliberately hit near hospitals?

 

[Sepulchres]

Nothing makes a debate less worth debating when people start attacking eachother and not the topic.

Israel against Lebanon actually.

 

[nandayo]

Well not 'really' I mean they have declared war on Lebanon, but it's the Palestinian 'people/state' that want to eradicate Israel and have spent decades attacking them. Geographically speaking: Israel vs. Lebanon, Politically Speaking: Israel vs. Palestine

 

[littlewing69]

Well not 'really' I mean they have declared war on Lebanon, but it's the Palestinian 'people/state' that want to eradicate Israel and have spent decades attacking them. Geographically speaking: Israel vs. Lebanon, Politically Speaking: Israel vs. Palestine

Nope. Politically speaking, Israel vs. Hezbollag, and simultaenously Israel vs. Hamas. The two groups are becoming more similar though, admittedly, especially re: funding.

 

[nandayo]

But Hezbollah are pro-Palestine, so Israel vs. Hezbollah is in theory (with funding, aims, underlying purposes etc.) is Israel vs. Palestine. Palestine will exist (theoretically) only with the destruction of the Jewish State, Hezbollah's aim is to destroy Israel and create the Palestinian State. So, they're pretty interconnected. I'm just saying that I should be allowed to word it that way, and not be 'corrected' in one sentence by someone who thinks pointing out that my wording is different to the thread title will destroy my argument and somehow label it is invalid.

No biggie.

 

[Mc_Meaney]

And links to terrorism

 

[Sepulchres]

Souce: http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20060715&hn=34810

Israel Attacks Lebanese Bus, 18 Dead
By Cihan News Agency
Published: Saturday, July 15, 2006
zaman.com

Eighteen people, including nine children, died in an Israeli attack on a civilian bus in southern Lebanon on Saturday.

A total of 90 civilians have died in the Israel-Lebanon conflict.

The Israeli assaults on Lebanon continue into their fourth day.

Israel, intensifying its attacks at noon on Saturday, killed 15 civilians in aerial raids on southern Lebanon.

Israel, calling its civilians to evacuate the region in an earlier announcement, targeted a truck carrying the villagers. Since the attack, the total number of civilian deaths has reached 90.

Israel continued its attacks on suburbs in southern Beirut and bombed regional Hezbollah targets.

Israel has struck 150 targets in Lebanon since the beginning of the operation.

Hezbollah ignited the first spark in the conflict by kidnapping two Israeli soldiers. It has endured missile attacks from Israel from the border of Lebanon. Hezbollah, warning Israel not to shoot Beirut, launched missile attack on the region of Tiberyas two days after an attack was made on the city of Haifa.

While two of Hezbollah’s five missiles fell on residential areas, no deaths or injuries were reported.

Meanwhile, US President George W. Bush stated the only one to be accused of the tension in the region should be Hezbollah. Bush asked Syrian authorities to use their power to control Hezbollah.

In addition, the bodies of two soldiers who had been lost on Friday as a result of an attack on a Israeli ship yesterday were found. Two other soldiers are still missing.

A member of Israeli intelligence said that the 20 missiles possessed by Hezbollah could reach Tel Aviv.

He claimed that approximately one hundred Iranian soldiers were deployed in Lebanon and the ship used in Friday’s attack was made in Iran.

woot, lets go self defence. Really accurate. Good stuff.

 

[nandayo]

150 attacks. About 50 (proven) deaths, remember that there's no tally here - and that your source is from a middle-eastern newspaper. I'd say that 150 attacks with about a 1/3 of those strikes having one victim, is pretty accurate. Better than the US.

 

[AntiHyper]

No, wrong. A terrorist organisation within Lebanon started it. Its like there are rats in your house and since the *Rat Squad* doesnt like your rats, they will fuck your house up for the hell of it, so that the rats and you as well suffer.

So if you have rats in your house, then firstly you should try starving out the rats by cleaning up.

Apparently Lebanon haven't done any cleaning up, so the rat population just increases until it starts to invade next door homes/neighbours.

You can see my analogy, Israel is the neighbour. They've been sickened to death by these invading rats so they're going over to Lebanon to tell them to clean up and stop feeding the rats.

 

[Sepulchres]

So if you have rats in your house, then firstly you should try starving out the rats by cleaning up.

Apparently Lebanon haven't done any cleaning up, so the rat population just increases until it starts to invade next door homes/neighbours.

You can see my analogy, Israel is the neighbour. They've been sickened to death by these invading rats so they're going over to Lebanon to tell them to clean up and stop feeding the rats.

Lebanon is currently restructuring their infrastructure after the assasination of their PM Rafik Hariri, how can you simply put it up to the house owner when one of the crucial members has recently died and the replacement is trying to get on his own two feet? The main thing is that Israel was looking for an excuse and guess what, they got it.

 

[veterandoggy]

Meanwhile, US President George W. Bush stated the only one to be accused of the tension in the region should be Hezbollah. Bush asked Syrian authorities to use their power to control Hezbollah.

lol he might as well have told them to sit down and shut up, cos they aint going to do anything too soon, unless it is to help lebanon.

 

[Mc_Meaney]

If Israel had been planning this for long enough, they wouldnt of waited to be preempted to strike, they would of done what they are doing now BEFORE the soldiers were taken. Israel has a history of bombing the shit out of countries first.

 

[ihavenothing]

It already is...and has been