isreali- paleistine (2 Viewers)

which do u support

  • isreali

    Votes: 49 44.1%
  • paleistine

    Votes: 37 33.3%
  • both in mutual existance

    Votes: 17 15.3%
  • u don't support a state bace on a religion

    Votes: 8 7.2%

  • Total voters
    111

IMABOYDAMON!

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JaredR said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the policy the Palestinians have taken for decades? Isn't that the point of all the terrorist attacks? G-d only knows that it hasn't worked in their favour nor will it ever.

Read your history books.
Mate, I totally agree. All this fighting isn't going to lead the people of Palestine and Israel anywhere, except 6 feet under the ground. Both countries need to pull their heads in, America needs to pull its head out, and we need to have some sort of peace talks.

But then again, even if the governments agree to pull out their military, or so called military (Palestine), the people of both countries will still continue to fight because their has undeniably been deep rifts caused by the war, and people will inevitably hold grudges.

I've got no idea. I think this war needs to stop, but we need a policy that will actually be sustainable.
 

bigboyjames

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JaredR said:
Withdrawing to the UN borders is “not a prescription for peace, but for a renewal of hostilities” (June 19, 1967 – Lyndon Johnson)

“In the pre-1967 borders, Israel was barely ten miles wide at its narrowest point. The bulk of Israel’s population lived within artillery range of hostile Arab armies.” – (September 1, 1982 – Ronald Reagan)

Resolution 242 adopted in November 1967 after the Six-Day War asserted that Israel was not expected to withdraw to the 1967 borders which were explicitly not defined as final political borders in the document which established them. Israel was only required to withdraw from “territories” (and not even all of them) to “secure and recognised boundaries” The previous boundaries were not secure. The Six Day War was clear-cut self-defense.

UN Resolution 181 which called for Jerusalem as an international city was rejected by the surrounding Arab constituents and resulted in the ensuing War immediately following Israel’s creation. Tel Aviv was the original capital recognised by Israelis until 1950 following Arab aggression and subsequent defeat where West Jerusalem was declared the new capital.
There is no question that Jews suffered greatly from the despicable legacy of anti‐Semitism, This history, as noted, provides a strong moral case for supporting Israel’s existence. But the creation of Israel involved additional crimes against a largely innocent third party: the Palestinians. This is why i am simply against the creation of ISRAEL.

Even when Israel was founded, Jews were only about 35 percent (due to mass immigration from Europe) of Palestine’s population and lived on 6 percent of the land.

the UN resolution 181 you speak of....lol???? This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947 with 33 votes in favour, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. and this is after killing, purging, taking over Palestinian land and then having the land split up in favour of the jews. and yet you have your head high and show me some democratic resolution by the UN? According to your great democracy, any outcome of this democratic process must be respected. This so called democracy has functioned perfectly: according to you and your brigade this is morally admirable. But it clearly is not: there is something fundamentally wrong with democracy, if it allows this outcome.

the nicest way i can say what is going on in Palestine is that Israel has colonized and Imperialised Palestine. A country which had not done anything to anyone on the global arena and in the region itself.

JaredR said:
I do not deny the displacement of Palestinians with the creation of The State of Israel. This problem augmented when Arabs, opposed to any Jewish State in areas with large Jewish populations attacked the newly born Israel. In peace efforts, the Palestinian leadership under the guise of Yasser Arafat was offered $30 billion US in compensation for the displaced Palestinians (who aren’t as great a number as claimed by yourself.
what peace effort when the the country shouldn't even exist! of course the Arabs were going to go crazy. if the UN allowed the aborigines to take 60% of ......say.....japan because of how the aussies treated the aborigines, wtf do you think people in japan are going to do! everyone will go bezerk!

JaredR said:
Yes, Israel was created at the foot of the Holocaust. It was to mark a safe haven for the Jewish people, a place where they had a police force and army to protect them. It was at a time when the doors of Australia, United States and numerous other Western nations closed their doors to a civilization in need. I will not ever refute the value of Israel on the security and survival of the Jewish people.
[/quote]
civilization? oh lord. BUT WHY THE HELL DID THE PALESTINIAN HAVE TO PAY FOR EUROPEAN CRIMES....NOT ONLY THAT WHY SHOULD THEY GIVE UP THEIR LANDS FOR IT!?


JaredR said:
You may consider acts of Palestinian terrorism as freedom fighting, but at the end of the day the heinous actions committed by some Palestinians against Israeli men, women and children is for the purpose of furthering their own political agenda – this is terrorism. Subsequent Israeli response (referring to that State sanctioned and initiated by the Israel Defense Force or other RECOGNISED security force) is henceforth not terrorism but self-defense. Individual Israelis who enter places of worship and kill and maim Muslims at prayer, throw stones at Palestinian children on their way to school etc are equally terrorists, but then again using numerous justification of Palestinian terrorism as a response to improper acts by Israelis could equally be used for these Israeli terrorists except with regards to Palestinians.

Palestinian terrorism is not random violence directed against Israel or “the West”; it is largely a response to Israel’s prolonged campaign to colonize the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

to me the way pro-Israeli posters think it gives out signals that they are blind....or stupid. the definition of terrorist changes faster than Tim Baileys weather forecast does.
it seems one man is a terrorist and the other is a freedom fighter EVEN IF BOTH DO THE EXACTLY THE SAME INHUMANE ACT.

when the French resistance were blowing occupying Nazi forces, killing civilians as they went, they were heroes and Freedom fighters to the west.

When the Irish republican army were blowing up British troops they were terrorists.

when the British army took on the Americans in the American revolution, killing civilians as they went, they were heroes and soldiers of the king/queen and defenders of the British empire. but when the Americans fought back the British called the American revolutionaries terrorists.

See what I mean, its all propaganda.

So when some freak kills 8 Israelis with a machine gun he is a terrorist.
But when Israeli warplanes bomb a village and kill dozens of innocent civilians, they were `just defending themselves`.

Cut the crap.



JaredR said:
Again there was a greater Jewish population than 1% in 1917. Secondly you can use those wonderful maps you flamboyantly display to note that much of the Israeli land was arid desert. Jewish ingenuity marketed the surrounding environment and now these regions feature green houses, vineyards and other profitable businesses. Israelis have reaped the land and are enjoying the benefits. Tel Aviv another fine example: built on sand dunes and now a bustling modern city home to one of the largest IT hubs in the world and the most expensive city in the entire Middle East. Numerous people, including Mark Twain defined much of Israel pre-1948 as barren land with little infrastructure and harvesting, including in the fertile lands in the Galilee.
yeah so what? you post does not explain why israel should exist at the expense of the palestinians.


JaredR said:
I think you will find in history books that the 1948 War of Independence was as a result of Arab aggression opposed to the creation of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
lol. The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. Ben‐Gurion the first prime minister of Israel knew this as he said to Nahum Goldmann at the World Jewish Congress, “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti‐Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”




wow, did i swear or insult!? ROFLMAO!
 
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JaredR

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Palestinians or rather Joranian/Syrians (as they considered themselves) supported Hitler and Nazism.

On November 21, 1941, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Adolf Hitler and recorded the following in his diary:

The Mufti said : "The Arabs are Germany´s natural friends... They are therefore prepared to cooperate with Germany with all their hearts and stood ready to participate in a war, not only negatively by the commission of acts of sabotage and the instigation of revolutions, but also positively by the formation of an Arab Legion. In this struggle, the Arabs were striving for the independence and the unity of Palestine, Syria and Iraq."

The Mufti, who visited Nazi death camps several times, organized support for the Nazis from amongst Muslims in Russia, the Balkans, and the Middle East. He headed the "Arab Bureau" in Berlin, where he directed a massive network of Arab-Nazi collaborators. He organized tens of thousands of Bosnian and Albanian Muslims into military units known as Handschar divisions, which carried out atrocities against Yugoslav Jews, Serbs and Gypsies, and he attempted to organize an Arab-Nazi Legion. Handschar fighters would be discovered battling against Israeli independence in 1948.

In 1943, in a speech in Berlin, the Mufti stated: "The Treaty of Versailles was a disaster for the Germans as well as for the Arabs. But the Germans know how to get rid of the Jews. It is that which brings us close to the Germans and sets us in their camp... up to today."

On March 1, 1944, in a radio broadcast to the Arab people from Berlin, the Mufti stated: "Arabs! Rise as one and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor." The Mufti initiated some of the most virulently pro-Nazi and Jew-hating broadcasts in history.
http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/mohammedism/mohammedism22.html

As for Ben-Gurion...he said many things...including:

"We accepted the UN resolution, but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept? "
 
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ari89

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iamsamx said:
i wonder if you are?

*recalls ari's previous posts*
Which previous post? The one where I said the solution was a mutual existence?

That seems pretty fair compared to people who only want the complete anniahlation of the other side.
 

JaredR

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Ari how are your plans for your trip to Israel going?

I want to go back so bad. :(
 

bigboyjames

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JaredR said:
Palestinians or rather Joranian/Syrians (as they considered themselves) supported Hitler and Nazism.



http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/mohammedism/mohammedism22.html

As for Ben-Gurion...he said many things...including:

"We accepted the UN resolution, but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept? "
wow, what a reply.
 

JaredR

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Sorry james, but I've been in front of this stupid thing all day and just can't be bothered at the moment...
 

bigboyjames

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bigboyjames: why should israel exist

pro-israeli:because of the nazis and europeans

bigboyjames: but why should israel exist on palestine

pro-israeli: because of the nazis and europeans

bigboyjames: but why should israel exist on palestine

pro-israeli: because of the nazis and europeans

bigboyjames: but WTF does palestine have naything to do with this

pro-israeli: STFU, you are Jew-hating Nazi like Hitler. you ARE Hitler. you a Neo Nazi skinhead.

bigboyjames: dude, just tell me what palestine did to deserve this

pro-israeli: fuck you anti - semetic. im going home.

bigboyjames: has a confused look on his face.




LOL, im playing.....im tired aswell.
 

bigboyjames

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JaredR said:
Palestinians or rather Joranian/Syrians (as they considered themselves) supported Hitler and Nazism.



http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/mohammedism/mohammedism22.html

As for Ben-Gurion...he said many things...including:

"We accepted the UN resolution, but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept? "
from post 109:

the UN resolution 181 you speak of....lol???? This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947 with 33 votes in favour, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. and this is after killing, purging, taking over Palestinian land and then having the land split up in favour of the jews. and yet you have your head high and show me some democratic resolution by the UN? According to your great democracy, any outcome of this democratic process must be respected. This so called democracy has functioned perfectly: according to you and your brigade this is morally admirable. But it clearly is not: there is something fundamentally wrong with democracy, if it allows this outcome.
 

JaredR

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Unfortunately I am not an Israeli citizen. If I were I would do my duty proudly. When I do become an Israeli citizen I will proudly serve in some form for the State of Israel. Though I don't finish university here until 2011 so it won't be till 2012 or later.
 

IMABOYDAMON!

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JaredR said:
Unfortunately I am not an Israeli citizen. If I were I would do my duty proudly. When I do become an Israeli citizen I will proudly serve in some form for the State of Israel. Though I don't finish university here until 2011 so it won't be till 2012 or later.
Why would you leave Australia to go to Israel? That's beyond me.
 

nathan71088

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bigboyjames said:
bigboyjames: why should israel exist

pro-israeli:because of the nazis and europeans

bigboyjames: but why should israel exist on palestine

pro-israeli: because of the nazis and europeans

bigboyjames: but why should israel exist on palestine

pro-israeli: because of the nazis and europeans

bigboyjames: but WTF does palestine have naything to do with this

pro-israeli: STFU, you are Jew-hating Nazi like Hitler. you ARE Hitler. you a Neo Nazi skinhead.

bigboyjames: dude, just tell me what palestine did to deserve this

pro-israeli: fuck you anti - semetic. im going home.

bigboyjames: has a confused look on his face.




LOL, im playing.....im tired aswell.
bigboyjames: why should israel exist

There is literature on this. If you really want to know the answer to this question, that I am sure is asked by many, then this is the wrong place to be asking it. For a well researched and sensible answer go looking for it, but I am pretty certain it will be written by people who support Israel. If that is a problem and it means you are going to simply dismiss their reported facts as "Zionist lies", then your question is no longer a question but rather a statement - "Israel should NOT exist!"
 

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Why did the UN partition plan give so much land to the Jews?
The partition plan gave the southern part of Palestine to Israel which was a huge proportion of the planned Jewish state. If you were to look at a map you would find that this land is the Negev DESERT. It is the most uninhabitable part of pre-1947 Palestine. Very few Israelis live there.

Why Palestine?
At the Zionist conferences in the late 1800s and early 1900s the participants wanted to have a country that was the same location of their ancient homeland. The Jews were offered Uganda and Herzl accepted it. He faced lots of criticism for agreeing to it. Herzl then said that he accepted Uganda because it land for a Jewish homeland and at the time it was the only option but he stated that his primary goal was to have a country that includes Jerusalem.

I dont know that much of the opinions of the Arab countries during WW2 but I do feel that the Palestinians have suffered due to events in Europe.

However, if you get rid of Israel we will have a similar problem to 60 years ago. People will be removed from a land which they call home.
 

bigboyjames

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nathan71088 said:
bigboyjames: why should israel exist

There is literature on this. If you really want to know the answer to this question, that I am sure is asked by many, then this is the wrong place to be asking it. For a well researched and sensible answer go looking for it, but I am pretty certain it will be written by people who support Israel. If that is a problem and it means you are going to simply dismiss their reported facts as "Zionist lies", then your question is no longer a question but rather a statement - "Israel should NOT exist!"
ROFLMAO. all books that are in favor of Israel are on the basis of the UN resolution 181 and the way Jews were treated in Europe. every single argument is founded upon these events. i have already mentioned this earlier and yet to receive a reply to post 109:

There is no question that Jews suffered greatly from the despicable legacy of anti‐Semitism, This history, as noted, provides a strong moral case for supporting Israel’s existence. But the creation of Israel involved additional crimes against a largely innocent third party: the Palestinians. This is why i am simply against the creation of ISRAEL.


the UN resolution 181 you speak of....lol???? This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947 with 33 votes in favour, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. and this is after killing, purging, taking over Palestinian land and then having the land split up in favour of the jews. and yet you have your head high and show me some democratic resolution by the UN? According to your great democracy, any outcome of this democratic process must be respected. This so called democracy has functioned perfectly: according to you and your brigade this is morally admirable. But it clearly is not: there is something fundamentally wrong with democracy, if it allows this outcome.
 
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nathan71088

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bigboyjames said:
ROFLMAO. all books that are in favor of Israel are on the basis of the UN resolution 181 and the way Jews were treated in Europe. every single argument is founded upon these events. i have already mentioned this earlier and yet to receive a reply to post 109:
It is not MY duty to do YOUR research.

all books that are in favor of Israel are on the basis of the UN resolution 181 and the way Jews were treated in Europe.

"ALL books..." All? Surely you don't expect people to believe you have looked at every book, every article, every journal, every news report, every website (for and against), every forum, every discussion, speech, lecture, research paper, interview, blog, magazine...or did you? If you did and you still only found that one answer amongst that volumnous amount of reading then obviously I must be wrong.
 

JaredR

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Because it's a beautiful country that has drawn me in since I visited at the start of this year.
 

catzhernandez

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JaredR said:
Because it's a beautiful country that has drawn me in since I visited at the start of this year.

I was just wondering, is it possible for me to convert to Judaism?

How would I go about doing it?
 

bigboyjames

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catzhernandez said:
I was just wondering, is it possible for me to convert to Judaism?

How would I go about doing it?
grab some Palestinian land.........your half way there.
 

JaredR

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You're a hypocrite James, one minute you say Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism, but then you say that to be a Jew one must steal Palestinian land?

You really are the most stupid person on here. :)

Silly little boy.
 

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