London Explosion (2 Viewers)

[bob\'s my uncle]

I wasn't suggesting that we are a target or that we are as prominent as the US and the UK, but rather that we are far from being as insiginificant as both you and azzie suggest. Besides, given that we are all well aware of reports that many US citisens cannot find Canada on a map, I wouldn't be one to use such 'evidence' supporting your stance freely. It's our position in the minds of those in power and those acting against the global movement against 'terror' that matters, not how we stand in the eyes of a farmer from kentucky or steel-worker from Sheffield. Just to reiterate, I'm not saying that we are as prominent as other nation-states, but rather that we aren't that insiginificant.

In whose eyes are we significant? really, think about it - if the US and the UK, the two nations which we are most involved with in the 'war on terror' aren't even AWARE we are involved, who else is going to notice? Most nations on earth dont know anything about australia's involvement - our significance is being severely inflated by us!!! the US and Britain's lack of awareness about Australia's involvement to highlight the fact NO-ONE on earth really gives a damn what Australia does because we're too small to be a 'looming entity'

 

[santaslayer]

waaa...

i just found out (or remembered), that my cousin is over at england for a few years working for an english finance company.

no details yet...

 

[santaslayer]

No when you have nukes you are a power, as many nations have nukes, eg england, Israel and India. These countries are hardly super-powers.

So what is it, that makes a country a super-power?

Technological superiority?
A huge population..?

Numbers man, numbers.

All hail AzNs.

 

[Generator]

In whose eyes are we significant? really, think about it - if the US and the UK, the two nations which we are most involved with in the 'war on terror' aren't even AWARE we are involved, who else is going to notice? Most nations on earth dont know anything about australia's involvement - our significance is being severely inflated by us!!! the US and Britain's lack of awareness about Australia's involvement to highlight the fact NO-ONE on earth really gives a damn what Australia does because we're too small to be a 'looming entity'

Don't conflate the thoughts of the ignorant masses with those of the administration. Besides, I said that Australia as a 'looming' entity was symbolic rather than actual, and as I was at pains to stress in my previous post, I wasn't suggesting that we are as prominent as other countries, rather that we aren't that insignificant and that it's those involved that matter, not those without a stake or an interest.

 

[withoutaface]

When you have nukes, you are a world superpower.

As long as you have the capability of saying "fuck you, i'll blow your ass up", you're super powerful.

No, when your military budget is larger than that of the next 20 countries combined, then you're a superpower.

EDIT: anti-mathmite: The power to take on the whole of Europe in conventional warfare with a reasonable chance of winning.

 

[Slidey]

NO-ONE on earth really gives a damn what Australia does because we're too small to be a 'looming entity'

It'd be nice to keep it that way.

 

[bob\'s my uncle]

Don't conflate the thoughts of the ignorant masses with those of the administration. Besides, I said that Australia as a 'looming' entity was symbolic rather than actual, and as I was at pains to stress in my previous post, I wasn't suggesting that we are as prominent as other countries, rather that we aren't that insignificant and that it's those involved that matter, not those without a stake or an interest.

Dont forget that quite literally every nation on earth publicaly denounces terrorism so from that perspective we are about as symbolically prominent as - well, every other nation on earth. Also are we not part of what you described as the 'ignorant masses' - as opposed to the wise administration. You should be very careful not to set up a dichotomy between public - ignorant, politicians - knowledgeable because that my friend is a fatal flaw lol.

 

[Generator]

Dont forget that quite literally every nation on earth publicaly denounces terrorism so from that perspective we are about as symbolically prominent as - well, every other nation on earth. Also are we not part of what you described as the 'ignorant masses' - as opposed to the wise administration. You should be very careful not to set up a dichotomy between public - ignorant, politicians - knowledgeable because that my friend is a fatal flaw lol.

The meaning of the ignorant masses phrase should have been quite clear in that it referred to those without a stake and an interest, such as those who rarely look beyond their own local circumstances. I was merely saying that it's the thoughts of the administrations rather than the ignorant masses (read the above line) that determines our position.

As for every nation publicly denouncing terrorism, it's also our role in Iraq and Afghanistan, in addition to our role in the region (one that includes Indonesia), that determines our global standing in the eyes of those involved. Just to stress the point, I'm not suggesting that we are as prominent as the US or the UK (or others), but at the same time we are not that insignificant.

 

[paper cup]

waaa...

i just found out (or remembered), that my cousin is over at england for a few years working for an english finance company.

no details yet...

my ex chem teacher is in London I think...

 

[Rafy]

The credibility of the responsibility claim is severly undermined.

Firstly, there are numerous errors in the arabic
Secondly, It is rather vague, and not of Al'qaeda style. Al'Qaeda usually gloat about specific events of the attack

SO it appears to be a hoax.


Then again, Al'Qaeda is not so much of an organisation anymore, rather it is an idea. AN idea that many fundamental groups have grasped and used its name. However many of the Al'qaeda groups act on the idea alone, and are likely not linked directly to Bin Laden.

 

[Alimoe_KG]

No, when your military budget is larger than that of the next 20 countries combined, then you're a superpower.

Not necessarily. It could just mean you're a sucker for phallic shaped warheads that can go BOOM BOOM

 

[get_born]

why is everyone focusing so much on the terrorist attack, let the people the countries elected to deal with those issues. Im interested in finding out if anyone here knows any of the people that were interested - and are they alright.

 

[HotShot]

gee finding it hard to figure out wat exactly u guys are talking about. wells sort things out to be superpower u need to be:
economical well off
militarily well off

now russia is not really a superpower when compared to the likes of india and china. because economically they arent quite as good, but they damn superpowers in the cold war no doubt about that

superpowers are;
israel
america
uk
china
india
perhaps just maybe russia( even though they are bit stuffed they are coming up)
europe as a whole is one
i think tats it.

now al-qaeda regardless if they did it or not, will always claim these kinda incidents they want attention and they want ppl to fear them. and also the governments quite clearly are not going to target anyone else as they are busy with their "war on terror" --which quite simply they havent done anything in their mission except create more problems.

they got rid of saddam bu tjust led to entire country to be in turmoil. Teh invaded afghanistan to get rid of Al -Qaedas, but they are still there causing more trouble than before.

So the "war on terror" has at the moment made no progress, and it looks they will invace iran, syria and the entire middle east and perhaps push into pakistan to stop the terrorists. but the terrorists are smart they have to be smart otherwise the couldnt have pulled off all these attacks and still be alive, so they know wats coming.

 

[HotShot]

why is everyone focusing so much on the terrorist attack, let the people the countries elected to deal with those issues. Im interested in finding out if anyone here knows any of the people that were interested - and are they alright.

i dont get you? wat r u trying to say?

 

[withoutaface]

gee finding it hard to figure out wat exactly u guys are talking about. wells sort things out to be superpower u need to be:
economical well off
militarily well off

now russia is not really a superpower when compared to the likes of india and china. because economically they arent quite as good, but they damn superpowers in the cold war no doubt about that

superpowers are;
israel
america
uk
china
india
perhaps just maybe russia( even though they are bit stuffed they are coming up)
europe as a whole is one
i think tats it.

now al-qaeda regardless if they did it or not, will always claim these kinda incidents they want attention and they want ppl to fear them. and also the governments quite clearly are not going to target anyone else as they are busy with their "war on terror" --which quite simply they havent done anything in their mission except create more problems.

they got rid of saddam bu tjust led to entire country to be in turmoil. Teh invaded afghanistan to get rid of Al -Qaedas, but they are still there causing more trouble than before.

So the "war on terror" has at the moment made no progress, and it looks they will invace iran, syria and the entire middle east and perhaps push into pakistan to stop the terrorists. but the terrorists are smart they have to be smart otherwise the couldnt have pulled off all these attacks and still be alive, so they know wats coming.

To be a superpower, you must be able to, by yourself, take on any other country in the world in conventional warfare and stand a reasonable chance of winning, imo. For that reason the United States is the only remaining superpower, because nobody, not even China (while their troop numbers are very high, their spending is only a sixth of that of the US), could take them on and hope to win without using nukes.

 

[get_born]

i dont get you? wat r u trying to say?

im basically just sink of hearing the word terror and attack and war. Like thats all that ppl talk about - i just wanna put that aside for a while and actually know about the people - like i heard on the news there were alot of Australian's in London and i know there probably getting support, but instead of hearing who may have caused the attack- id rather know about who was injured and are they alright. Do you understand what im trying to say now?

 

[Rafy]

Toll is now 52


Investigators 'find timer device'
July 8, 2005 - 2:55PM

British investigators have reportedly found a timer device amidspeculation a suicide bomber may also have been behind the Londonterrorist attacks that killed at least 52 people and injured around 700.

CNN television reports that authorities think the device may have triggered one or more of the four explosions that occurred at underground railway stations and on a bus during the morning rush hour.

The discovery of the timer device indicated the attacks may have not been carried out by suicide bombers, CNN said.

One senior US intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said British officials had found some suspicious items after the blasts, including one that they detonated in a controlled explosion.
But there was no indication of what the items were.

Investigators will pore over video film from the hundreds of remote cameras installed around London in the hope of finding clues to the identities of the terrorists responsible for the bomb blasts.

Several passengers on a number 30 bus, which had its roof torn off by a blast, reported seeing a dark-skinned man in his mid-20s rummaging in a bag seconds before the blast tore through the bus at Tavistock Square.
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"I was standing next to a young gentleman who kept diving into a bag," 61-year-old project manager Richard Jones told reporters.

"He looked foreign. I noticed him as he looked nervous.

"He kept bending over into this bag," said the Scot, who got off the bus just seconds before the explosion caused mayhem, peeling off the vehicle's roof.

Television images showed blood spattered over the walls of nearby buildings moments after the blast, which occurred 56 minutes after the first of three attacks on underground stations.

As many as 20 people were feared to have died on the bus.

Were the suicide bomber hypothesis to be confirmed it would be the first time such an attack had been perpetrated anywhere in Europe.

Terence Mutasa, a nurse at University College Hospital, said two young women he treated said they were convinced there had been a bomber on board and that he had blown himself to smithereens.

"They said the guy just sat down and the explosion happened. They thought it was a suicide bomber."

 

[HotShot]

What's your source? There's no way India or could be called a superpower, nor Russia. America is (unfortunately) and China is well on it's way to becoming one. Israel certainly isn't, though they do have the best intelligence-gathering agency on the planet ... if anybody knows anything about a terror attack, it's the Mossad.

hmm.. source out their in front you. india and china are upcoming superpowers, they large booming economy large military, latest technology, space involvements, and thus can be regarded as superpowers, or upcoming superpowers. Israel is a natural superpower militarily it is probably ranked first, techonology advanced (thanks to USA), they have nuclear weapons (even though they dont admit it), they also have space involvements.

You say that america is a superpower, why? because you know they are economically, militarily and technologically ahead when compared to other countries. I think you have come to believe are leaders in everything, well tats not true, not at the moment, in the past yes but not in the present.

 

[HotShot]

im basically just sink of hearing the word terror and attack and war. Like thats all that ppl talk about - i just wanna put that aside for a while and actually know about the people - like i heard on the news there were alot of Australian's in London and i know there probably getting support, but instead of hearing who may have caused the attack- id rather know about who was injured and are they alright. Do you understand what im trying to say now?

we can find that in the news, tats why we talking something else.

 

[zahid]

To be a superpower, you must be able to, by yourself, take on any other country in the world in conventional warfare and stand a reasonable chance of winning, imo. For that reason the United States is the only remaining superpower, because nobody, not even China (while their troop numbers are very high, their spending is only a sixth of that of the US), could take them on and hope to win without using nukes.

YES AND NO.

Criteria for superpower (wiki)

- Superior economic power, characterized by access to raw materials, volume and productivity of the domestic market, a leading position in world trade as well as global financial markets, innovation and the ability to accumulate capital.

- A large population, high level of education, well-developed infrastructure and a pronounced cultural and economic ability to shape as well as absorb a variety of things.

- Pre-eminent military ability, characterized by relative invulnerability, the ability to deter or cause great damage and project military might globally.

- Possessing an attractive social and value system as well as evidence of the ability to lead and impose order in a state's regional environment.

- Having a functioning political system capable of mobilizing resources for world political goals, the potential to build alliances or establish linkages with capable partners.

- The existence of a political consensus on a concept of world order and the preparedness to be engaged in international forums.

but yess u are right in saying the only country that is an established superpower is United States. The countires that hotshot has listed are NOT global superpowers as such (even though their economies are booming, and they have military capability), but certainly do have the potential to become (future) superpowers.