Muslim headscarves (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

incorrect. if wearing a scarf was just merely because of the desires of men, who would wear the scarf? why should women be subjected to wearing something because of horny men?

the purpose of the hijab can't accurately be summarised by one "reason". different women wear it for different reasons.

A problem with that is that so many people (on this forum, at least) justify the hijab solely on such grounds, and as the above exchange illustrates, interpretations of the matter are far from being uniform. However, the ranks seem to close whenever a, well, liberal interpretaton is articulated.

 

[tempco]

See this is the reason im getting confused

It IS compulsory to wear it. But the reasoning behind it varies? Am i right in saying this?

yes. it is compulsory because it's ordained by god. this is a reason in itself. however, women also wear the hijab for a lot more reasons - e.g. my sister says it's awesome since it identifies her as muslim - she doesn't get sleazed on by guys, no one asks her out to drinks, parties, etc. saves her a lot of time.

 

[AsyLum]

Ahh yes, i forgot that belief. Thanks for clearing it up

 

[tempco]

A problem with that is that so many people (on this forum, at least) justify the hijab solely on such grounds, and as the above exchange illustrates, interpretations of the matter are far from being uniform. However, the ranks seem to close whenever a, well, liberal interpretaton is articulated.

well, then you'll have to take a look at islam as a religion. muslims consider the word of god and muhammed (prophet) to be final. that is, clear cut rulings or fatwas are not open for discussion. e.g. premarital sex, scarf, pork, etc.

 

[Enlightened_One]

Ban it but only if you ban all other religious garments as well.

What people forget is that for a good while, Australians were educated by women wearing similar forms of clothing (ie headscarves) and no one complained about it; my 1st principal at primary school wore one. Surely people aren't suggesting that nuns wear what they wear because its a sign of their rebellion aginst Australian values?

Just a word, borrowed from a professor who was going both sides the issue (this is the only line I remember).

Nuns choose to wear their headscarve. Muslim girls don't. They don't reach eighteen years old and decide they want to wear a hajib its forced on them. Just thought I'd mention that so people would stop comparing muslim girls to nuns which is not a fair comparison

 

[tempco]

Just a word, borrowed from a professor who was going both sides the issue (this is the only line I remember).

Nuns choose to wear their headscarve. Muslim girls don't. They don't reach eighteen years old and decide they want to wear a hajib its forced on them. Just thought I'd mention that so people would stop comparing muslim girls to nuns which is not a fair comparison

well, your memory's failing you, or you've been listening to one crackpot of a professor.

1. muslim women are required to wear the scarf after reaching puberty, not 18.
2. it's hijab.

the hijab is forced under some circumstances, just as a nun may be forced into the clergy by an overzealous father/mother.

but no, not all muslim girls are forced to wear the scarf. if so, how would you explain muslim girls who don't wear the scarf?

 

[AsyLum]

Ok, that last comment just confused me again.

If its a decree of God, then should it not be compulsory for all muslim women to wear it? If not, then are they considered any less muslim than those that do?

 

[sly fly]

Ok lemme clear it up. It IS a decree by God. Muslim women are required to wear it once they reach puberty. However, that does not mean that anyone has the right to force it upon them eg: father, husband etc. They are obliged by religion but they cannot be forced by people into following this part of the religion. Im a Muslim and I chose to wear it because i wanted to follow my religion but i wasn't forced to wear it by my parents or anything. However, I dont think it makes someone ''less Muslim'' by not wearing it. It just means they are not following one obligatory part of their religion. Like u might get a Muslim woman who wears the scarf and she steals yet another who doesn't wear it and is always honest and stuff. You can't really judge how much of a Muslim someone is solely based on whether they wear a scarf or not.

 

[tempco]

Ok, that last comment just confused me again.

If its a decree of God, then should it not be compulsory for all muslim women to wear it? If not, then are they considered any less muslim than those that do?

yes, it is compulsory for all muslim women (past puberty) to wear the headscarf.

as for being less muslim, it's not for us to judge each person. i'll will only go so far as to say that she is not practicing one part of islam - wearing the scarf. but of course, there are women who do not wear the scarf but are practicing islam to a greater degree than a women who does wear the scarf.

that said, the wearing of the scarf is not a concrete sign of a muslim woman's religiousity.

EDIT: ergh, i hate being an echo.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

iand what if there are no portions that go against reason? what if everything i know about my religion makes sense?

If your religion tells you that you should wear a headscrarf because God wants you to, I have news for you: it doesn't make sense.

Same goes for irrational beliefs that may or may not exist in your religion (I don't know) - about the inferiority of women or the immorality of homosexuals, for example.

 

[ogmzergrush]

If your religion tells you that you should wear a headscrarf because God wants you to, I have news for you: it doesn't make sense.

Same goes for irrational beliefs that may or may not exist in your religion (I don't know) - about the inferiority of women or the immorality of homosexuals, for example.

That's pretty one sided, when it comes down to it all religions are equally fucking ridiculous

 

[tempco]

If your religion tells you that you should wear a headscrarf because God wants you to, I have news for you: it doesn't make sense.

Same goes for irrational beliefs that may or may not exist in your religion (I don't know) - about the inferiority of women or the immorality of homosexuals, for example.

so, if a certain woman wears the scarf because it's a religious obligation, and realises that she wants to keep it on since its benefits outweigh its costs, it still doesn't make sense? if so, i guess muslim women are irrational, non-sensical people.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

so, if a certain woman wears the scarf because it's a religious obligation, and realises that she wants to keep it on since its benefits outweigh its costs, it still doesn't make sense? if so, i guess muslim women are irrational, non-sensical people.

I didn't say that. This is what I said:

"If your religion tells you that you should wear a headscrarf because God wants you to..."

 

[tempco]

I didn't say that. This is what I said:

"If your religion tells you that you should wear a headscrarf because God wants you to..."

i tend to think that what god has ordained is a means, not an end.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

i tend to think that what god has ordained is a means, not an end.

And I suppose if God told you through your text to jump off a bridge?

(That would certainly be a means to an end )

 

[AsyLum]

...there wouldnt be many followers alive would there

 

[tempco]

hehe, guess not.

MLS - well, it goes back to the belief that god is infallible, benevolent and omniscient.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

hehe, guess not.

MLS - well, it goes back to the belief that god is infallible, benevolent and omniscient.

1. Even if he is, getting his/her/its wisdom from an old book is pretty silly.

2. God being omnipotent, omnicient and benevolent is a contradiction. Any fool can look around and see the fact that there is a lot of shit going on in the world.

 

[tempco]

1. Even if he is, getting his/her/its wisdom from an old book is pretty silly.

muslims view the quran as a universal message that crosses both place and time. prophet muhammed was considered a "walking quran", whose actions reflected the teachings of god.

the study of islam, the quran, and the prophet involves the examining the revelation, its context, identifying the underlying message and applying it to the present. this means that the age of the quran does not matter to muslims.

2. God being omnipotent, omnicient and benevolent is a contradiction. Any fool can look around and see the fact that there is a lot of shit going on in the world.

and muslims view this life as a test - and what would a test be without trials/hardship? the heaven/hell business is pretty straightforward.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

muslims view the quran as a universal message that crosses both place and time. prophet muhammed was considered a "walking quran", whose actions reflected the teachings of god.

I understand, what I don't understand is why.

and muslims view this life as a test - and what would a test be without trials/hardship? the heaven/hell business is pretty straightforward.

1. Mmm. Life as a test. Perfectly logical assumption. Make some beings who are innately flawed. Then punish them for doing the wrong thing (which they are determined to do anyway). Cause massive disasters which they have no control over that kill huge quantities of people (thereby removing any logic of testing them). Kill babies at birth (not much chance for a test there). "Life as a test" has to be the most ridiculous argument, honestly.

2. Any doctrine of belief which requires humans to place emphasis on a "future life" and to inhibit the full human potential of the individual in this world (which is highly likely to be the true and only world), takes civilization backwards. It is the greatest waste of life that can possibly be concocted to see life as a rehearsal. Life is not a rehearsal.