Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[scindian]

Don't forget that during the eighties the USA supported Iraq against Iran and supplied many of the chemical weapon ingredients that Saddam used against his own people. Further, the USA supported the Taliban in Afganistan when they were fighting the soviets.

There are many tyrants all over the world, but it is only tyrants who posses oil that attract the attention of the west. This is very hipocritical and only adds to the list of countries that the USA has meddled with (just look at central and south america).

When world leaders make statements about dictators and tyrants they must be placed within a historical context and viewed with suspicion.

 

[SashatheMan]

"Jew" isn't just a race.

Yes but when you are talking about the holocast, you are not talking about the jewish religion.

 

[tempco]

Yes but when you are talking about the holocast, you are not talking about the jewish religion.

Irrelevant.

 

[davin]

Don't forget that during the eighties the USA supported Iraq against Iran and supplied many of the chemical weapon ingredients that Saddam used against his own people. Further, the USA supported the Taliban in Afganistan when they were fighting the soviets.

There are many tyrants all over the world, but it is only tyrants who posses oil that attract the attention of the west. This is very hipocritical and only adds to the list of countries that the USA has meddled with (just look at central and south america).

When world leaders make statements about dictators and tyrants they must be placed within a historical context and viewed with suspicion.

yeah, like the u.s.a's involvement in yugoslavia was all about oil.

 

[Pubert]

I have no problem with the hijab, I also have no problem with the praying as long as it's agreed to by the employer - if the employer has a problem with it (for a decent reason) then I think they should have to accept his decision or find another job.

Agreed.

 

[Pubert]

yeah, like the u.s.a's involvement in yugoslavia was all about oil.

War makes money and helps the economy, so people go to war.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

I reckon its funny how Comrade Nathan goes off at indians or asians when they take the side of Australians. Like when an indian-Australian member of BOS was taking the side of Australians, comrade nathan goes "Trust YOU to suck UP TO WHITE AUSTRALIANS" like this is some war against white people.

When it comes down to it, i'm sure indians or asians would much rather take the side of white people than islamic/arab people, as white people are much more hospitable than arabs would be to them.

 

[breaking]

So why cant these Muslim people just join our side? You seem to be saying it as if they're opposing us in some way - we're all the same, and if your post is the truth, then why don't these Muslims try and be more Australian?

because they don't want to, duh.

 

[tempco]

So why cant these Muslim people just join our side? You seem to be saying it as if they're opposing us in some way - we're all the same, and if your post is the truth, then why don't these Muslims try and be more Australian?

How can Muslims be any more Australian? Many of them are born in Australia and are just like anyone else. Conflict arises when people (read politicians) start to point out our differences.

 

[Generator]

How can Muslims be any more Australian? Many of them are born in Australia and are just like anyone else. Conflict arises when people (read politicians) start to point out our differences.

Don't blame the politicians alone - they may be highlighting what is essentially a minor issue, but it's still an issue all the same. That said, there are other issues that are just as, if not more, deserving of their consideration. However, as we all know, nothing is as topical as Islam these days, and stating what many consider to be true will hardly hurt the political standing of any politician seeking the limelight.

 

[tempco]

But its these differences that havn't hindered other contributory immigrant groups in the past - either way, im not saying its bad that they're not assimilating in every way, but I can tell you that I do think twice when I see a female in a hijab. Perhaps they should be more active in our community?

The fact is, the hijab and Muslim women will never be a norm in Australia. There will always be that second look/thought, and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I would be taken aback if I saw a woman wearing a niqab/veil (although I'm used to the hijab) and I'm Muslim.

As for them working in the community, they already do. Mission of Hope, for example, are active in the Bankstown area.

Don't blame the politicians alone - they may be highlighting what is essentially a minor issue, but it's still an issue all the same. That said, there are other issues that are just as, if not more, deserving of their consideration. However, as we all know, nothing is as topical as Islam these days, and stating what many consider to be true will hardly hurt the political standing of any politician seeking the limelight.

But all they're doing is adding fuel to the fire. Yes, Islam is a hot topic of discussion, but when politicians state the obvious for no legitimate reason (e.g. Howard on the Muslim full-dress being "confronting"), all it does is provide xenophobic bigots with justification to believe in what they believe in. Of course, the majority of Australians don't have to worry about the backlash... but Muslim women are assaulted, spat at, sworn at, have their scarves being pulled off, etc. The men can take care of themselves, but many Muslim women who have their children with them are subject to this kind of behaviour... and when the average Australian states that they think Muslims are "overreacting" to the issue, it doesn't help.

 

[Generator]

But all they're doing is adding fuel to the fire. Yes, Islam is a hot topic of discussion, but when politicians state the obvious for no legitimate reason (e.g. Howard on the Muslim full-dress being "confronting"), all it does is provide xenophobic bigots with justification to believe in what they believe in. Of course, the majority of Australians don't have to worry about the backlash... but Muslim women are assaulted, spat at, sworn at, have their scarves being pulled off, etc. The men can take care of themselves, but many Muslim women who have their children with them are subject to this kind of behaviour... and when the average Australian states that they think Muslims are "overreacting" to the issue, it doesn't help.

Some may argue that it's better to debate the confronting the controversial than it is to repress and deny the difference. I'm of such an opinion.

This street-level 'backlash' is more than regrettable and something that should shame us all (even more so should it be as widespread as you would have us believe), but I don't agree with the idea that the comments of Howard and Costello only serve to fuel the hatred of a pathetic minority. Do you really think that such people should be held hostage by the thoughts and actions of a xenophobic fringe? Should everyone in the public eye be fearful of what they say given that any public comment by someone of some standing stands a chance of being abused by a person/group with sinister intentions?

I do think that there is a need to be mindful of the probable impact and to be as politically correct as possible, but I don't think that there's much to be gained by avoiding an issue should it be topical or pressing. That said, maybe both Howard and Costello could have framed their thoughts in a more conciliatory manner given their public standing, but I don't think that they should have just withheld their opinions in order to avoid causing a controversy.

 

[tempco]

I see you found where they're active in the community, but in all fairness they're not as active as other religions (ie Christian Churches).

Of course not. There are far less Muslims than Christians, for example.

Some may argue that it's better to debate the confronting the controversial than it is to repress and deny the difference. I'm of such an opinion.

But what is there to debate in the recent comments made by Costello and Howard?

Costello: Whoever doesn't respect Australian laws (singling out Muslims and Shari'a law) should leave Australia.
Howard: The Islamic full-body attire is confronting.

Costello has no idea what Shari'a law is, and Howard's captain obvious. Even I find the veil and burqa confronting.

This street-level 'backlash' is more than regrettable and something that should shame us all (even more so should it be as widespread as you would have us believe), but I don't agree with the idea that the comments of Howard and Costello only serve to fuel the hatred of a pathetic minority. Do you really think that such people should be held hostage by the thoughts and actions of a xenophobic fringe?

Should everyone in the public eye be fearful of what they say given that any public comment by someone of some standing stands a chance of being abused by a person/group with sinister intentions?

About as often as "Muslim guys" harrass "Australian girls".

I don't think people should restrict what they say just because bigots and xenophobes jump at the chance. However, when comments are made that have no purpose (in my opinion) other than raising popularity amongst these type of people, I would expect the average Australian to realise what's going on.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

But all they're doing is adding fuel to the fire. Yes, Islam is a hot topic of discussion, but when politicians state the obvious for no legitimate reason (e.g. Howard on the Muslim full-dress being "confronting"), all it does is provide xenophobic bigots with justification to believe in what they believe in.

The bigots will believe what they want to believe whether the politicians give them a slight nod or not.. I don't think they're exactly fueling the fire or making this issue a bigger issue than one which would normally be spoken about by politicians but I guess you disagree.

but Muslim women are assaulted, spat at, sworn at, have their scarves being pulled off, etc. The men can take care of themselves, but many Muslim women who have their children with them are subject to this kind of behaviour... and when the average Australian states that they think Muslims are "overreacting" to the issue, it doesn't help.

Women in general are assaulted, spat at, sworn at... I really don't see any more prevalence of this amongst muslim women.

About as often as "Muslim guys" harrass "Australian girls".

You're just pulling that out of your arse.

 

[tempco]

The bigots will believe what they want to believe whether the politicians give them a slight nod or not.. I don't think they're exactly fueling the fire or making this issue a bigger issue than one which would normally be spoken about by politicians but I guess you disagree.

I think they are making the issue much bigger than it is. Much bigger.

Women in general are assaulted, spat at, sworn at... I really don't see any more prevalence of this amongst muslim women.

That's because you're never around them/don't live with them/don't go shopping/uni/etc with them. I do.

You're just pulling that out of your arse.

Well, technically yes. Thing is, it's the same when someone mentions "Muslim guys" harrassing "Australian girls"... but everyone tends to find claims like that more believable because they've seen it happen, or have heard from friends. The same goes for me... I've seen people harrass and insult Muslim women. It has happened to my Mum and my sisters. I've heard of far worse cases from my friends.

The difference is that I acknowledge that there are sleazy Leb guys out there who try and pick up caucasian girls. But when it comes to Muslims, it's all about the victim mentality and "pulling that out of your arse".

 

[mr EaZy]

women get abused just because they are women

muslim women get abused just because they are muslim (and because they are women- its because the attackers aren't game enough to attack guys)

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think they are making the issue much bigger than it is. Much bigger.

It's an issue that alot of voters care about and the papers are playing up... it's a big issue, so they're talking about it.

That's because you're never around them/don't live with them/don't go shopping/uni/etc with them. I do.

Well while I don't hang around MANY muslims I do have a close muslim friend and I've gone out with his family before.... bah what a silly debate.

Well, technically yes. Thing is, it's the same when someone mentions "Muslim guys" harrassing "Australian girls"... but everyone tends to find claims like that more believable because they've seen it happen, or have heard from friends. The same goes for me... I've seen people harrass and insult Muslim women. It has happened to my Mum and my sisters. I've heard of far worse cases from my friends.

Yeah ok, well then what you do is tell the police. They will not go easy on these people who target people via their religion.

The difference is that I acknowledge that there are sleazy Leb guys out there who try and pick up caucasian girls. But when it comes to Muslims, it's all about the victim mentality and "pulling that out of your arse".

I acknoweldge that there's alot of anti-muslim prejudice I just don't dismiss the issue out of hand as unimportant.

muslim women get abused just because they are muslim (and because they are women- its because the attackers aren't game enough to attack guys)

I don't know about this epedemic of muslim women getting abused... I mean I'm sure there's alot of snide comments made etc but physical abuse? Is it REALLY that prevalent?

 

[Generator]

Sadly, there are many people from all walks of life who do not know what Shari'a law truly is (myself included). That said, I'm not one for a religious 'law', even one that is meant to be strikingly similar to the political values of today's Australia.

Though I'm not one who's normally willing to defend the Libs, I think that it would be fair to assume that Howard's recent spate of comments regarding Islam stem from the Australian's recent printing of interview comments taken down last year, comments that were probably made in response to a reasonably broad question regarding cultural issues as opposed to one specifically discussing Islam and its fringe elements. In all honesty, I don't think that there is anything more to his comments than a desire to publicly clarify what has already been said.

Costello, on the other hand... Unlike Howard, he doesn't see to have been forced to make such statements in public.

After all of that, I don't think that the comments themselves are worthy of debate, but the issues themselves are another matter. However, in saying this, I do recognise the need to not magnify an 'issue' beyond belief, especially when it's particuarly sensitive.

 

[tempco]

It's an issue that alot of voters care about and the papers are playing up... it's a big issue, so they're talking about it.

Ergh... I don't think it's a big issue. This whole "Muslim threat" has been blown way out of proportion.

Well while I don't hang around MANY muslims I do have a close muslim friend and I've gone out with his family before.... bah what a silly debate.

You've missed my point. You aren't around them enough to have witnessed abuse. Personally, I haven't seen Arab guys harrass girls.

Yeah ok, well then what you do is tell the police. They will not go easy on these people who target people via their religion.

Of course. But that's if they're caught. For example, I was told that a Muslim woman was assaulted in the northern beaches... someone had ripped off her scarf and in the confusion, ran away. What chance do the police have at catching someone like that, when the victim isn't even able to describe the person who assaulted her?

I acknoweldge that there's alot of anti-muslim prejudice I just don't dismiss the issue out of hand as unimportant.

But you refuse to accept the fact that harrassment of Muslim women is as prevalent as the harrassment of white girls.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Ergh... I don't think it's a big issue. This whole "Muslim threat" has been blown way out of proportion.

Ok... you don't think it's a big issue, however in the media and the public eye - it is a big issue... so the politicians address it.

You've missed my point. You aren't around them enough to have witnessed abuse. Personally, I haven't seen Arab guys harrass girls.

Ok awesome whatever.

For example, I was told that a Muslim woman was assaulted in the northern beaches... someone had ripped off her scarf and in the confusion, ran away. What chance do the police have at catching someone like that, when the victim isn't even able to describe the person who assaulted her?

Tell a newspaper - Tell the cops... the same goes for every assault case, if there's alot of them going on it'll start to be noticed. Now I'm not saying that it's not going on, I just think you're making it a much bigger thing than it is.

But you refuse to accept the fact that harrassment of Muslim women is as prevalent as the harrassment of white girls.

Ok 'harassment' is a big term, generally I'd say muslims are probably 'harassed' tonnes in society... but I'm specifically thinking of physical/sexual assault where I disagree with you.