Ngyuen's Execution (2 Viewers)

[spell check]

It's amazing how in today's Telegraph, the editor seemed to actually let loose opinions along the lines of "Nguyen deserved it. It's because of people like him that junkies exist".

i thought drug traffickers exist because of junkies?

 

[walrusbear]

i thought drug traffickers exist because of junkies?

no apparently drug trafficking is a the equivalent of killing anyone who takes drugs
thus why they traffickers should be executed
if i'm to understand tully and koma correctly

 

[inasero]

vale van nguyen



firstly id like to point out that just because something is legal, does not necessarily mean that it is ethical- for example stealing Koori land in the 17th Century, genocide of Jews in WWII and holding prisoners indefinitely in Guantanamo Bay- so people who are just taking the hard line and saying "too bad he broke their law and must face the consequences of their law" don't really present a valid argument, and in any case capital punishment is not mandated by international law.

secondly. people think that this guy got sympathy because he was Australian and painted in a certain way by the media- which I concur is a fair enough point. However, this doesn't detract from the fact that he was still a human, and didn't deserve that punishment in the first place.

Somebody already posted it, but what purpose exactly does execution serve? Notice in the countries where capital punishment is enforced, the crime rates are still high...e.g. China, America, etc. The solution to the problem is in prevention, rehabilitation and education.

When somebody innocent is executed, do they have the oppotunity to clear their name?

What about the emotional, social and financial repercussions on the convicted person's family?

And doesn't this kind of attitude encourage an 'eye-for-an-eye' kind of mentality- what kind of values are we teaching our children if we enact revenge willy-nilly? That's just exchanging an evil for another evil...

Guys, please think about what the death sentence truly involves before making blanket statements such as "He deserved it cos he trafficked drugs"...

 

[Lundy]

It's amazing how in today's Telegraph, the editor seemed to actually let loose opinions along the lines of "Nguyen deserved it. It's because of people like him that junkies exist".

The opinions published have been fairly evenly divided the whole time.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

for example stealing Koori land in the 17th Century

It wasn't Kooni land. It was nobody's land; hence why we are here now.

Somebody already posted it, but what purpose exactly does execution serve? Notice in the countries where capital punishment is enforced, the crime rates are still high...e.g. China, America, etc. The solution to the problem is in prevention, rehabilitation and education.

That's not their problem. You break the law, you die. Simple.

It is a waste of time to try to rehabilitate some prisoners. There is a sure fire way of rehabilitating prisoners though. The death penalty. Afterwards, they'll be a whole new person! (haha you'd have to understand buddhism to see the funnyness in what i just said)

Especially in this case, rehabilitation was definitely an option. Deterrence tends not to work (criminals don't think they will be caught) and retribution has no place in a modern legal system

Yeh but sometimes "rehabilitation" isn't in the interests of the state. For example... Only those who are caught come into the realm of "rehabilitation". What about the ones who don't get caught? Are they rehabilitated?

Rehabilitation? For christ's sake, do you think this is some game of cops and robbers? Someone comitts and offence... The government spends hours implementing legislation, training police, enforcing it.. So that when they catch criminals.. they're going to grip the criminals by the arm and go "HAAA! WE CAUGHT YOU! Now.. Because we're so good and we caught you.. Say sorry.. and you can go!"

Umm... NOOOOOOOOOOO!

The law is not there to serve the interests of the criminal. Some people need to get this through their thick skulls. This notion of "crying in sympathy with criminals" is not what law is all about. Contrary to what some people firmly believe

 

[walrusbear]

It wasn't Kooni land. It was nobody's land; hence why we are here now.


That's not their problem. You break the law, you die. Simple.

the post you responded to deserves more credit than that

Yeh but sometimes "rehabilitation" isn't in the interests of the state. For example... Only those who are caught come into the realm of "rehabilitation". What about the ones who don't get caught? Are they rehabilitated?

The law is not there to serve the interests of the criminal. Some people need to get this through their thick skulls. This notion of "crying in sympathy with criminals" is not what law is all about. Contrary to what some people firmly believe

i don't see how rehabilitating criminals isn't in the interests of the state. how does criminals who escape the process somehow undermine the obvious positive effects of rehabilitating criminals??

your last comments about law suggest that it exists solely to punish??

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

i don't see how rehabilitating criminals isn't in the interests of the state.

It's not the states responsibility to ensure that they are rehabilitated. It's the individuals. If someone breaks the law, they suffer the consequence.

Giving someone a leniant sentence somehow makes them rehabilited more? No.. It's just being a piss weak society.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

vale van nguyen



firstly id like to point out that just because something is legal, does not necessarily mean that it is ethical- for example stealing Koori land in the 17th Century, genocide of Jews in WWII and holding prisoners indefinitely in Guantanamo Bay- so people who are just taking the hard line and saying "too bad he broke their law and must face the consequences of their law" don't really present a valid argument, and in any case capital punishment is not mandated by international law.

secondly. people think that this guy got sympathy because he was Australian and painted in a certain way by the media- which I concur is a fair enough point. However, this doesn't detract from the fact that he was still a human, and didn't deserve that punishment in the first place.

Somebody already posted it, but what purpose exactly does execution serve? Notice in the countries where capital punishment is enforced, the crime rates are still high...e.g. China, America, etc. The solution to the problem is in prevention, rehabilitation and education.

When somebody innocent is executed, do they have the oppotunity to clear their name?

What about the emotional, social and financial repercussions on the convicted person's family?

And doesn't this kind of attitude encourage an 'eye-for-an-eye' kind of mentality- what kind of values are we teaching our children if we enact revenge willy-nilly? That's just exchanging an evil for another evil...

Guys, please think about what the death sentence truly involves before making blanket statements such as "He deserved it cos he trafficked drugs"...

yes! exactly!! i dont believe that capital punishment is morally right, in any circumstances no matter what the crime was...it's just not right that the state should have such power over the life of an individual. i was arguing with someone over this today - she said people who commit really heinous crimes (murder, rape etc) deserve to die, but think about it - kill them and they dont have to live with what they've done, ever. and there'll be all the people left behind to deal with it for the rest of their lives who dont deserve that suffering. capital punishment does not solve any thing in the long run.

i can understand that there are some people who cannot be rehabilitated - but killing them just shouldnt be an option imo. what right does anyone have to take the life of another person? of course it's not right to commit crimes. but nor is it right to kill someone for committing a crime. i dont know if this makes sense to anyone else but me, but it seems to me that having the death penalty - which gives those in power the ultimate control over somebody's very existence - gives the law a higher status than it deserves. no law is so important as to warrant death for it's breach.

this is probably a very disjointed response, i apologise. this issue gets me so worked up though that i cant formulate a well structured answer. basically im trying to say that i do not under any circumstances believe in capital punishment as a means of prevention or cure. dont forget that many of these criminals who get executed are products of the environment they were raised in. you cant go around creating monsters and then complain and go kill them when they stomp on a few buildings. it's very hypocritical.

the person i was arguing today asked me if i would feel the same were we contemplating the way animals in the wild kill each other. i was astounded that she had to resort to saying that...but come on. yes, humans are animals as well. but while animals in the wild kill each other, they dont as a rule kill their own kind. and they hunt to eat, not to punish. the two situations are not really comparable. sorry that had nothing to do with anything i just felt like saying it, get it off my chest. i find it very frightening to think there are people who honestly support the death penalty as a form of punishment. what is it achieveing in the long term?

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

yes! exactly!! i dont believe that capital punishment is morally right, in any circumstances no matter what the crime was...

Ok let me kill your family, then let me hear your opinion on the death penalty.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Ok let me kill your family, then let me hear your opinion on the death penalty.

i already had this discussion this morning. if you kill my family you can have life in prison to contemplate what you've done. i'd rather you had to live with it for the rest of your life and suffer than get out of it by being executed. if you got death i feel it would be too much of an easy way out for you considering what you did, which is one reason why i think it's not right. some criminals do deserve to suffer for their crimes, im not going to deny that. but capital punishment is not the way.

 

[erawamai]

Ok let me kill your family, then let me hear your opinion on the death penalty.

I think a number of people are more in favour of the dealth penality for murder cases. While drugs are a serious issue and the courier is indirectly responsible for the deaths of many people he or she doesn't actually injects the drugs for the person.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

i already had this discussion this morning. if you kill my family you can have life in prison to contemplate what you've done. i'd rather you had to live with it for the rest of your life and suffer than get out of it by being executed. if you got death i feel it would be too much of an easy way out for you considering what you did, which is one reason why i think it's not right. some criminals do deserve to suffer for their crimes, im not going to deny that. but capital punishment is not the way.

Let me kill your family, then let me hear your stance on capital punishment.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Let me kill your family, then let me hear your stance on capital punishment.

what? you already asked me this and i already answered you. if you kill my family you can rot in jail. im not going to endorse capital punishment for any reason. there are other ways to punish people that dont include such extremes.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

what? you already asked me this and i already answered you. if you kill my family you can rot in jail. im not going to endorse capital punishment for any reason. there are other ways to punish people that dont include such extremes.

Let someone kill your family.............. Then, let me hear your stance on capital punishment.

The only reason you're being apathetic in this way is because you aren't in the victims shoes.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Let someone kill your family.............. Then, let me hear your stance on capital punishment.

The only reason you're being apathetic in this way is because you aren't in the victims shoes.

im not being apathetic. i just dont think it's ethical. i understand what you're trying to get at but i cant agree with you. if my family was murdered i would much prefer the killer to get life in prison than get killed. that way he/she will have to live with what they have done for ages afterward. i cant help but see the death penalty as a cop out for those people who murder, rape, etc. believe it or not i dont think two wrongs make a right and yes, even the murder of my own family would not make me wish death on the perpetrator. also i may not be the most religious person in the world but the commandment "thou shalt not kill" is one i firmly agree with. it just goes against everything i believe to support capital punishment under any circumstances.

 

[stainmepink]

im just concerned about the effectiveness of the death penalty. Does it infact act as a deterrant to further crime? Laws like that don't act to get to the bottom of the problem, instead they just shoot the messenger.

 

[mossup]

all i'm gunna say is that i simply can't believe that they don't give the chance of rehabilitation to anyone and thats a tragedy. No one has the right to take anothers life...we put people in gaol for killing people, yet the ironic punishment for some murderers is death! tell me, who's more in the wrong?

neither. Both kill. Both end human life... Ngyuen was a better person than half the bums around here. He didn't stand a chance, he wasn't given a chance, worse of all, he's been murdered for taking a chance. I believe he's an idot for thinking he could trade heroin for a good cause..... What if that heroin did make it to singapore streets? He coud have killed someone of an overdose, so no, he's not perfect. But to kill him??? thats just as criminal...

 

[walrusbear]

Let me kill your family, then let me hear your stance on capital punishment.

so it takes an extreme emotional state to make capital punishment make sense??

 

[iamsickofyear12]

If he wasn't an Australian no one would care just like they don't care about every other non Australian who gets executed.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

im just concerned about the effectiveness of the death penalty. Does it infact act as a deterrant to further crime? Laws like that don't act to get to the bottom of the problem, instead they just shoot the messenger.

Who cares whether it acts as a deterrent. You commit a crime, you're dead. Those who are smart enough to heed the warning, will survive, whilst those who don't, deserve to die.