Rape Ingrained in Islamic Culture? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

i didnt need to if you knew it was for you

i would define it as sexual intercourse without consent, hence condemning gang rapers and rapers, if the question to follow will involved them.

I imagine the islamic definition of rape would be different for different people, in different countries practicing sharia law, as they all attempt to interperate what god would want, but come to different conclusions.

 

[erawamai]

i didnt need to if you knew it was for you

i would define it as sexual intercourse without consent, hence condemning gang rapers and rapers, if the question to follow will involved them.

What is consent? Subjective consent of the 'victim' or objective consent of a reasonable person observing?

The bone of contention is the media playing up muslims comin out and saying that she deserved it because she dressed in a provocative manner, flirted or even initiated the sexual intercourse.

 

[veterandoggy]

Who says?

......

so men are softer than women? i always thought that women are generally softer than men, hence people on the arguing side can appeal more to their emotions than they could to men.

 

[erawamai]

so men are softer than women? i always thought that women are generally softer than men, hence people on the arguing side can appeal more to their emotions than they could to men.

You missed the point. It is wrong to generalise about either sex in such a modern world that often does not support gendered stereotypes. Women can be very tough and very hard. Men can be more compassionate than females and vice versa.

Outdated methods of gendered thinking ensure that men and women are unable to break free of dogmatic interpretations of their roles in society...resulting in a society that is stagnent.

 

[SashatheMan]

To beat is not to bash and make them black and blue. A wack on the arm as u would anyoen else when outraged is what I know of. This comes from my boyfriend, but he has never wacked me like this, adn never intends to.

you know what would finally make you change your mind on this issue. if yuor boyfreind did apply the words of the quran and beat you when you did sometihng wrong.

 

[veterandoggy]

What is consent? Subjective consent of the 'victim' or objective consent of a reasonable person observing?

The bone of contention is the media playing up muslims comin out and saying that she deserved it because she dressed in a provocative manner, flirted or even initiated the sexual intercourse.

oh, youre talking about THAT rape? the sheik corrected himself, or i think he made clearer what he meant. i was at the lecture, but i think i missed it when he said it, but a few girls i know said that a large group of women walked out when he said that, so i hope that further answers your question

 

[erawamai]

oh, youre talking about THAT rape? the sheik corrected himself, or i think he made clearer what he meant. i was at the lecture, but i think i missed it when he said it, but a few girls i know said that a large group of women walked out when he said that, so i hope that further answers your question

Well what do you think? Is she asking for it if she dresses provocativly, flirts or even initiates sex?

...and should be consent be judged subjectively (ie the state of mind of the victim) or objectively (according to what the reasonable person would have felt)

 

[veterandoggy]

Well what do you think? Is she asking for it if she dresses provocativly, flirts or even initiates sex?

...and should be consent be judged subjectively (ie the state of mind of the victim) or objectively (according to what the reasonable person would have felt)

it should be judged as did she intentionally have sex with him without being forced to physically.

why am i defining it? the only sex that is allowed is a wife and her husband in islam, and i think she would consent to have sex with her husband.

 

[erawamai]

why am i defining it? the only sex that is allowed is a wife and her husband in islam, and i think she would consent to have sex with her husband.

Why do you think that? A husband can be guilty of raping his wife. A womans right to not give consent to sex is not lost when she marries.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

why am i defining it?

Beyond the fact that it is indeed possible for a husband to rape his wife, you also have to deal with the fact that as far as I know there is no punishment (other than one perhaps from god) for having sex out of marriage, so you need some sort of punishment for rape outside of marriage don't you... which should be seen as a worse thing than sex?

 

[veterandoggy]

Beyond the fact that it is indeed possible for a husband to rape his wife, you also have to deal with the fact that as far as I know there is no punishment (other than one perhaps from god) for having sex out of marriage, so you need some sort of punishment for rape outside of marriage don't you... which should be seen as a worse thing than sex?

we have punishments for fornication, i thought you know that.

Why do you think that? A husband can be guilty of raping his wife. A womans right to not give consent to sex is not lost when she marries.

true, but they are rare, and i havent heard of it happening in muslim families, but nonetheless rape is rape.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

we have punishments for fornication, i thought you know that.

So is the punishment for fornication as large as the punishment for raping someone out of wedlock? You are telling me that from your perspective, two loving people who are not married, having sex, is only as bad as someone raping someone? Meanwhile a man can rape his wife all he wants, without punishment?

 

[veterandoggy]

So is the punishment for fornication as large as the punishment for raping someone out of wedlock? You are telling me that from your perspective, two loving people who are not married, having sex, is only as bad as someone raping someone? Meanwhile a man can rape his wife all he wants, without punishment?

i said rape is rape, no matter what the circumstance. i dont know if the punishment is harsher, cos i havent searched. but 100 lashes is enough is it not? married ones get stoned to death btw regarding fornication.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Should not fornication and rape be punished differently?
Should not rape during marriage be treated in the same way as any other rape?

Stop just saying 'rape is rape', i have no idea what you're going on about... we're asking for the definition of rape and you're saying "ROFL RAPE IS RAPE".

 

[veterandoggy]

Should not fornication and rape be punished differently?
Should not rape during marriage be treated in the same way as any other rape?

Stop just saying 'rape is rape', i have no idea what you're going on about... we're asking for the definition of rape and you're saying "ROFL RAPE IS RAPE".

no you were talking about a husband raping his wife and man/group raping a woman, and i am saying that they are both rape, and would have the same punishment

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Wtf? I know what I was talking about.

 

[veterandoggy]

must have been erawamai then.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Should not fornication and rape be punished differently?
Should not rape during marriage be treated in the same way as any other rape?

Stop just saying 'rape is rape', i have no idea what you're going on about... we're asking for the definition of rape and you're saying "ROFL RAPE IS RAPE".

So you gunna answer those questions?

 

[veterandoggy]

i dont know if they are, but maybe they should be harsher.

and i think for your second question i already answered it when i said "rape is rape" why should it be different when a husband is raping his wife?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Do you believe the koran will back up your statement that rape is still rape when it is a husband 'raping' his wife? this is a very new concept.