Should Maths be Compulsory? (2 Viewers)

[melanieeeee.]

if you are bad at both then you probably shouldnt be doing an hsc.

everyone has a right to an education.

 

[Evilo]

everyone has a right to an education.

yeah, thats why we have compulsory education up to year 10.

There is too much emphasis on compelting year 12, particularly for "low end" blue collar jobs. An extra 2 years of education is un-necessary and essentially 2 years of on-the-job training would be far more effective.

PS - 1400th post

 

[melanieeeee.]

yeah, thats why we have compulsory education up to year 10.

There is too much emphasis on compelting year 12, particularly for "low end" blue collar jobs. An extra 2 years of education is un-necessary and essentially 2 years of on-the-job training would be far more effective.

i agree but i believe it's their decision to make. they shouldn't be pressured to do otherwise. some students just dont feel ready to go out into the workforce particularly at such a young age.

PS - 1400th post

congrats.

 

[Evilo]

i agree but i believe it's their decision to make. they shouldn't be pressured to do otherwise. some students just dont feel ready to go out into the workforce particularly at such a young age.

I only partly agree, if you're not forced to go into years 11-12 (but you want to go) then you're probably more likely to succeed. However, if you're going into years 11-12 because your mates are, or you dont like the idea of working then its probably not really going to be an incentive to do well.

As far as maturity for the workforce goes, most of the time it gives the student a lot of maturity by entering the workforce. From just 3 months of working full time at a low end liquor store job, i'd decided that i never want to work here again, and i want to complete uni with a real degree. sometimes harsh reality can be that kick up the butt.


Thanks for the congrats too

 

[melanieeeee.]

I only partly agree, if you're not forced to go into years 11-12 (but you want to go) then you're probably more likely to succeed. However, if you're going into years 11-12 because your mates are, or you dont like the idea of working then its probably not really going to be an incentive to do well.

but they are still entitled to an education whether or not they do well.

As far as maturity for the workforce goes, most of the time it gives the student a lot of maturity by entering the workforce. From just 3 months of working full time at a low end liquor store job, i'd decided that i never want to work here again, and i want to complete uni with a real degree. sometimes harsh reality can be that kick up the butt.

i dont see the point to that. you say that it gives them maturity to choose to go back to study? why dont they just continue study if that is the aim of bringing them into the workforce - if that makes sense.

 

[Evilo]

but they are still entitled to an education whether or not they do well.

yeah, they get an education up to the point of SC. If they're not smart, and have no intention to learn - why should they be at school?

i dont see the point to that. you say that it gives them maturity to choose to go back to study? why dont they just continue study if that is the aim of bringing them into the workforce - if that makes sense.

Most people take for granted what they have, when they realise low end jobs are shit, they're very keen to go back to study. Hence why it is very easy to get into uni as a mature aged student. And "mature" is defined as 23?

 

[melanieeeee.]

yeah, they get an education up to the point of SC. If they're not smart, and have no intention to learn - why should they be at school?

because they have a right to an education that should be right until year 12. according to the bos the aim of the hsc is to:

provide a curriculum structure which encourages students to complete secondary education;

and also it is better than having kids just stay at home and not contribute to society and increased unemployment.

Most people take for granted what they have, when they realise low end jobs are shit, they're very keen to go back to study. Hence why it is very easy to get into uni as a mature aged student. And "mature" is defined as 23?

yeah i agree but again i dont think a student should leave just cause they get bad marks. what if the bad marks are not a result of laziness?

 

[mythical chaos]

I think any subject should be compulsory if a minimum of BAND 3 wasn't achieved in the School Certificate. But if you get band 3 english and hate it then at least you understand it at a mediocre level and should be allowed to drop it. (same with maths, geo etc)

 

[Evilo]

and also it is better than having kids just stay at home and not contribute to society and increased unemployment.

yeah 11 & 12 is optional and isnt a form of childcare.

If my [hypothetical] kids said they didn't want to go to school in year 11 & 12, they would be out earning money with a job, and they would be charged rent. Or they would be at tafe getting a workplace skill based on an interest of theirs.

yeah i agree but again i dont think a student should leave just cause they get bad marks. what if the bad marks are not a result of laziness?

If they are genuinely dumb, then will they be going to university? (yes i am aware learning difficulties are a whole different story). Alot of them will not be going to university, nor will they get a extremly high paid job. So if year 11& 12 education is not necessary for their careers/jobs, then why should they even be doing it?

EDIT - if it is necessary for their career, then they either need to buck up their ideas and strive for the win (by recognising the learning issues that are challenging them). Or pull out, spend some time in a job, then come back when they are mature enough to complete the exams. They way i see it - if you're not studying, you're working, and if you're not working, you're studying. If you're neither, then you've retired.

 

[GreenLeaf]

No, I believe up to Year 10 maths is sufficient for everyday life.

Don't get me wrong, I love maths but nothing I learnt in Senior Maths is going to be particularly helpful in life. That is, I don't need to know sine theta in order to do my taxes. And differentiating 'x' is not going to pay the bills.

 

[bored of sc]

No, if you put yourselves in the shoes of those who despise the subject you understand that for some it is absolute hell. English should be compulsory (as it is) because to survive in today's world, communication is the key.

Sure maths has its major benefits of logically thinking, abstract thought, problem solving ability, but it is english that enables us to speak, listen, write, read, reflect, interpret, represent and respond effectively to the world around us. It is english that makes us social, makes us a human being beyond a walking organism --> it allows us to understand the world through our five senses and teaches us freedom of thought, difference of opinion, the manner in which we should establish and develop our ideas and most of all --> english gives the human mind a greater capacity to go beyond the logically, beyond the finite and beyond all the common sensical and THINK FOR OURSELVES with endless possibly. English may seem worse because of workload, marks and teachers but when it comes down to it --> when we are laying in our deathbed with an hour to live it is the greater intellectual capacities aided by the study of the english language and literary form that don't make us a thoughtless, antihumanist blob of skin, flesh and bone. It enables a greater understanding of life as we know it; in the struggle for meaning and understanding of everything we constitute as 'this life' we need all the help we can get.

 

[melanieeeee.]

yeah 11 & 12 is optional and isnt a form of childcare.

it isn't. its a place for everyone to learn.

If my [hypothetical] kids said they didn't want to go to school in year 11 & 12, they would be out earning money with a job, and they would be charged rent. Or they would be at tafe getting a workplace skill based on an interest of theirs.

If they are genuinely dumb, then will they be going to university? (yes i am aware learning difficulties are a whole different story). Alot of them will not be going to university, nor will they get a extremly high paid job. So if year 11& 12 education is not necessary for their careers/jobs, then why should they even be doing it?

EDIT - if it is necessary for their career, then they either need to buck up their ideas and strive for the win (by recognising the learning issues that are challenging them). Or pull out, spend some time in a job, then come back when they are mature enough to complete the exams. They way i see it - if you're not studying, you're working, and if you're not working, you're studying. If you're neither, then you've retired.

have you ever heard of getting an education for the sake of being educated?
also some tafe courses require year 12 qualification.

 

[Evilo]

it isn't. its a place for everyone to learn.

School is compulsory, by law, between the ages of 5 and 16, ie from Years 1-10 (inclusive).
Pre-school, Kindergarten and the final two years of High School (Years 11-12) are optional.

http://www.bubhub.com.au/infoeducationnsw.php

just like i said, year 11&12 is not compulsory, its not a childcare service either.
If your not learning, you should be working.

have you ever heard of getting an education for the sake of being educated?

If you're getting an education "for the sake of being educated", then you do a "hobbie" diploma corse at a syd uni when you're 45 (usually reserved for bored housewives to take up decorating diplomas like "colour consulting", fashion design, and interior design etc. so they can re-design their mcMansions through their husbands bottomless money pocket.).

Otherwise education should have a purpose - i.e. you do hsc so you can go to uni, you do uni so you can learn a skill you are interested in so you can get a high paying job. you get a high paying job so you can get money, you get money so you can buy shit and feel happy.

also some tafe courses require year 12 qualification.

I already covered this.

EDIT - if it is necessary for their career, then they either need to buck up their ideas and strive for the win

Yeah talk about stereotypes.

*generalisations

<snip (shit)> just because they dont choose to go to university doesn't mean that they may not get high paying jobs. These days some trade careers pay more than some professions.

true, but generally jobs that require a tertiary education are higher paid (yes i am aware there are exceptions to the rule)

Graduates can earn twice salaries of non-graduates

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=110065&sectioncode=26

I've heard that 'each year of education can add 10% onto a salary package'.

[I'll record the show. <3 hd tv recorder.]

 

[Evilo]

Ya way to get a source from the UK and was written in 1998, that is really relevant to the Australian Workforce. Anyway ya I get that students generally students that have tertiary education get higher salaries but yeah my main point was that not all students that don't do well at school get low earning incomes - thats pretty much it...

fair enough, there's always going to be 'excepts to the rule' but like i said we have to just generalise.

 

[agua.fuego]

No it shoudn't be complusory are you out of your freaking mind..

Maths is GAY!

Damn straight!

 

[11kloseboy]

Maths should be definitely be compulsory its the most important subject in the world practically every job in the world requires maths. English is compulsory and mainly we just use it to communicate in English speaking countries. While maths can be used in the world anywhere in the world.

 

[Rusty12]

I reckon that making maths compulsory would actually make the UAI more accurate as it would better reflect a students allround ability over a number of subject areas. Currently, students who are weak in maths can simply avoid it. While someone may struggle with english, but they are forced to battle on, sometimes to the verge of almost failing. Make no mistake, it does impact on their UAI. I believe basic literacy is desirable, but so is basic numeracy. I believe mathematics at a very basic level should be compulsory study to make the education system fairer

 

[spence]

Maths should be definitely be compulsory its the most important subject in the world practically every job in the world requires maths.

As if most jobs require maths. Sure they may require simple arithmetic, but not the crap you learn in the HSC.

 

[selablad]

but so is basic numeracy.

That's what primary school is for.

 

[itadakimus]

It's amazing how poor some people's maths skills are. I'm talking about simple checkout addition. Compulsory maths sounds like a good idea.