Should Muslim immigration to Australia be stopped? (1 Viewer)

[Cyrus the Great]

Tending to be different in cultural attitudes. Towards women, justice, notion of religion as belonging in private sphere, dont wear masks in public, women are equal etc.

Other than the highlighted part I really do not understand the issue.

who cares what they do

It does not effect you a single bit

they can propogate islam as much as they want to you

they can believe in 10 wives or 2

if they believe in woman are shit...they can believe in that too.

you should only be concerned if they are forcing you to change...

honestly, slively im disappointed in you. you're true colours are showing today.

 

[redmayne]

Tending to be different in cultural attitudes. Towards women, justice, notion of religion as belonging in private sphere, dont wear masks in public, women are equal etc.

Yeah, right, women are equal in a Christian, European society. Maybe one day.

Man wouldn't I like religion to be in a private sphere. Except my life sees Hillsong everywhere, various Christian denominations trying to convert me at my front door, Ann Coulter ranting and raving on television, Joe Hockey spruiking his religious virtues, Jesus in the sky and on TV (apparently, he's all about life).

Not to mention churches everywhere.

Religion in Australia has never been in a private sphere, nor has it influenced equal treatment of women.

Justice...like locking Muslims up with no evidence for many many hours. Because someone suspects they could be a terrorist.

 

[redmayne]

Look up the definition of private sphere.

I don't need to, my point still stands wonderfully.

The private sphere is all about the role of authority and privacy at home or with the family. Why should I look up the definition when my point is sound.

Tell me the difference between the Christian and Muslim perceptions of your private sphere.

 

[dieburndie]

It's also important to account for the media's role in contributing to the skewed perception of muslims in general held by the impressionable masses.

I believe Islam to be a ridiculous, morally unsound and incredibly authoritarian faith. This doesn't lead me to believe that every muslim is hostile towards the west or a national security risk.

Those seriously fueling this hysteria need to calm down and treat the tabloid media with a greater level of discernment.

 

[redmayne]

Those seriously fueling this hysteria need to calm down and treat the tabloid media with a greater level of discernment.

Pay attention to the nice man, slively.

Goodnight.

 

[redmayne]

No it doesn't, you are wrong.

The private sphere refers to civil society. This means that while churches etc may exist "outside" they are not endorsed or backed by the government, nor does the government make special laws for special people. It doesn't explicitly refer to "at home", although the line usually goes that what people do in their home is their business. The notion of the public sphere concerns the proper nature of the state. Generally, it is believed that the social contract of the state exists to offer protection from theft, property stealing, and murder at the very core. Any other form of government intervention is moralistic and arbitrary.

If you compare the governmental form of most western states (Liberalism - or welfare liberalism if you include essential services like healthcare and education), which is a belief in individual liberty - most western governments have privileged this by trying to afford the individual as much autonomy as possible without their liberties infringing on the rights of others (ie right to kill - vs right to not be murdered). This means that historically 'christian' legal systems (and yes much of our legal system HAS evolved from the bible and spiritualistic conceptions of law to naturalistic ones) cherish individual liberty even to the point that it disagrees with the majority. It's not perfect in practise, but it's the conceptual framework we are based on.

However, Muslim countries have a governmental system that does not privilege individual liberty, and is still a spiritualistic form of government. This was us from about the 16th century backwards. Muslim legal countries follow the Sharia, and basically uphold whatever the quar'an teachers. Thus, someone from a muslim country might have no problem with a government saying its legally okay to rape ur wife, women must legally be covered up, we can make laws about people's sexuality, ban sodomy and bascially invade peoples privacy whereby it diverges form the teachings of allah.

That's the answer to your question. The point i was making is that since a muslim from a muslim country believes in that stuff (or some variation of what i just said) then it might just be that they might start thinking that the australian govt. should better reflect the Koran by advocating sha'ria instead of the common law, supporting the condemnation of homosexuality etc.

The problem with australia is we only have a cultural basis to protect our rights. the belief in freedom and personal autonomy is really the only reason our leaders are keeping us the right to do what we like in the private sphere. The lack of any constitiutionally entrenched rights like the US has leads our freedoms like freedom of speech etc. to be compromised by religious groups who as we have seen have amended the vilificaiton laws at our expense to criticise.

I hope this clears things up for you.

I thought you were just doing this for a bit of a laugh? And you only copied the long passages from websites? Hmmm.

See, the problem with the arguments of libertarians like you is this:

You shout from the rooftops that you value individual liberties and freedom of speech etc. Yet you don't understand that freedom of religion is also a fundamental aspect of a Bill of Rights type system. Freedom of religion is essential to any truly libertarian society.

You're perfectly willing to espouse your vehement support of individual liberties, but(and it's a big but) with the exception of Muslims. With the exception of an entire culture because you disapprove of them.

Just doesn't make sense. It's flawed.

Unbelievably imbalanced.

Now seriously, goodnight.

I look forward to tomorrow's preachings.

 

[runoutofsleep]

so therefore they should not be allowed in our country

 

[mirakon]

You've clearly never been to a Muslim country where if you're identified as non muslim you basically get no respect, people spit on the ground near your feet etc.

Yet these people come to a country in the West, make themselves known by wearing the burqua as a mark of political division and contempt (its worn much more in the west than in islamic countries for this reason), and ask for tolerance to push a culture that restricts freedom of speech, freedom of religion, separation of church and state and the like. Turning to countries like Saudi Arabia we can see what we are moving towards as demographics change through birth rates and immigration.

If you're a woman, a homosexual, a christian or a westerner please know that islam doesn't support you, and the stated goal of islam is to take over the world.

Actually I have been to several Muslim countries before and my rights and freedoms were never impeached. Where is it stated that Islam wants to take over the world, so far you've just confirmed it's prejudiced paranoia on your behalf? Furthermore, I know many Muslim women who don't wear the Burqa and live perfectly ordinary and I can assure you that you would not be able to tell if they were Muslim or not if you just saw them walking past. Rather inconspicuous for 'alleged world dominators' huh?

 

[mirakon]

My concern is not with those individual traits on their own, but the cultural effect such a group has to change racial vilification laws and the like. It's more of an indirect relationship caused by our paternalistic natured government.

So you are of the mentality that racial vilification, abuse of other races as a result of backward-minded prejudice, is somewhat good? Clearly you're wrong.

 

[redmayne]

I never said Muslims aren't free to practise their religion.

This whole thread concerns your support that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to immigrate to this country because of their religion. If that's not restricting someone's freedom of religion, I don't know what is.

I'm saying theyre coming from a worldview that wants to advance islam as some kind of public morality. We see this in anti vilification laws.

Advancing their religion worldwide, as a source of universal morals. Hmm, sound familiar? Senior figures of the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations consistently state that they want to spread their religions. And they've actively done that for hundreds of years around the world, in aggressive and often violent conversion. They also stubbornly maintain that their religion is the source of all morals in the world today, that without them all 6.8 billion of us would suddenly kill each other in a fit of adultery and sin.

At least pretend to be looking at the two religions on equal ground. Throughout this, you've proven that - whether you know it or not - you're shaped and influenced by your Christian, anglo-saxon context. You need to get a sense of perspective.

Because in Australia our freedoms exist because of the largesse of our leaders, having a greater demographic of muslims might interfere with the rights of others to free speech, or to practise opposing religions by having a greater ability to influence the political process.

This is concerning.

This argument has gotten more and more convoluted since you began it.

Christianity has untold influence on the political system, and if they had their way imagine the laws that would be passed. They'd be equally as restrictive as any Islam favour. But they're not allowed to. Everyday all religions are trying to influence government, and sometimes it works, but by and large they're told to get lost, politely.

Yeah, Islam might begin to restrict your freedoms in Australia. Just like Kevin Rudd might suddenly stand up and say "I'm homosexual and not actually Catholic, Malcolm and I are an item."

Many things might happen, the only concerning thing here is that you believe this will.

 

[random-1005]

Honestly, im bloody scared. All these Muslims, their scarfs, the burkas, the food, it just makes me sick in the stomach. The culture is so barbaric, I heard that they do female genetic mutation is Some African Islamic communities and in Saudi Arabia you have to pray 5 times a day or you get 50 lashes.

how bout i chop your balls off

 

[Amogh]

Hahaha! You don't see marginalisation of Muslims? You don't think there are many anti-Muslim views?

You're obviously blind and deaf then, look through this thread.

It's all about the anti-Islamic movement. Read the title ffs.

Yes. Pro Muslim views STILL form a majority IMO.
'Look at the poll for ffs'
The supporters outweigh the conservatives.
My question essentially asked, What distinct policy is being implemented against muslims?
NONE
They are and should be valued just as other migrants.

how bout i chop your balls off

i loled

Yeah, Islam might begin to restrict your freedoms in Australia. Just like Kevin Rudd might suddenly stand up and say "I'm homosexual and not actually Catholic, Malcolm and I are an item."

HAHAHAHAHAHA
nicely put +1

 

[redmayne]

Yes. Pro Muslim views STILL form a majority IMO.
'Look at the poll for ffs'
The supporters outweigh the conservatives.
My question essentially asked, What distinct policy is being implemented against muslims?
NONE
They are and should be valued just as other migrants.

Yeah fair point.

At least here, people seem to be relatively sensible.

But the anti-Muslim stance is veeeeryyy popular in Australia now. And most of it just xenophobia. A very small amount are genuine, somewhat respectable opinions.

They're getting marginalised a fair bit, as are many other migrants. But mostly them.

 

[miss giggles]

Even if you are a racist fool who support this idea, it simply wouldn't work anyway.

Muslims would just lie and say they weren't muslims to get in.

i honestly don't know where you get this idea from that all Muslims would just lie and say they weren't muslims to get in. you shouldn't generalise any culture as every culture will always a bad group

 

[miss giggles]

Please tell me how Muslim immigration is going to destroy or undermine your freedoms.

Please tell me how that would happen.

Is Islam in Australia going to have some phenomenal public appeal overhaul, and every MP going to be a Muslim, subsequently changing our law to Muslim law? Or are they going to stage a coup?

The name "fringe minority groups" is pretty self-explanatory. They don't have much say or influence.

If they did, it wouldn't be detrimental, because they wouldn't try and convert the legal system to some hardline monstrosity, that's ridiculous. Why do you think they escape their dictatorial Islamic countries in the first place?

Please go and talk to everyday members of the Muslim community, and then say that they're that bad.

well said

 

[miss giggles]

umm no

umm, yes

 

[DiligentStudent]

I like kebabs.

 

[ibbi00]

I like kebabs.

But then again, who doesn't?

 

[GodLovesIsrael]

I personally believe Islamic immigration should be stopped. As a Jew I believe Islam is an Arab supremacist cult and not a religion in the way it is normally understood preaching peace and righteousness. Islam instigates its adherents to violence and forcibly converting everyone to its criminal ideology. There is no misunderstanding in this. The world should try to eradicate this barbaric cult by force if necessary the same way governments try to eliminate mafia, drug peddlers, organized crime. It is in Australia's best interest that the Muslims stay there and we stay here.

 

[mirakon]

Islam instigates its adherents to violence and forcibly converting everyone to its criminal ideology. There is no misunderstanding in this. The world should try to eradicate this barbaric cult by force if necessary the same way governments try to eliminate mafia, drug peddlers, organized crime. It is in Australia's best interest that the Muslims stay there and we stay here.

Your post made me LOL, please tell me you are trolling? Otherwise your argument is an incredible belching of stupidity.

First you criticize Islam for instigating violence, not only is this completely wrong but then you hypocritically go on to suggest that we should 'eradicate' Muslims.

The new-age Hitler.