The Abortion Debate... (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

So you don't think a father has the right to say 'please keep this child, i want the baby, i'll look after it, please don't kill it' ?

 

[Sophie777]

I was talking about Tony Abbott here. He's an asshole right wing catholic. We don't need to be like ireland. It is a womans decision, a womans body and a womans right to decide what is done with it.

 

[girlanachronism]

So you don't think a father has the right to say 'please keep this child, i want the baby, i'll look after it, please don't kill it' ?

well, no, because it's not him who has to carry the child for 9 months. like, if the woman is willing to do that then sure, but i believe it is ultimately her decision; men aren't the ones who'll have morning sickness and become enormous.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It's not the woman's body, the foetus is its own living creature, true it could not live without the woman throughout most of a pregnancy, but babies cannot live without their mothers even once they are born...
What you're basically saying is that women can kill babies they don't want, or even do it for a laugh if they wanted to as long as they're still in the womb....

 

[timrie6]

i think the father should have a say, however in no way does he have the right to coerce the woman into something that she ultimately doesn't want to do.

how can he have a say really
he will either agree with the woman on her choice
or he will disagree- but can't force her to do what she doesn't want to do

therefore his opinion doesn't mean much

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So even tho it's a man's baby TOO he has no say because she births it?!

I'm sure guys would give birth to the babies if they could, but they can't. I think it's selfish, mean to say that a guy should have NO say over their child's life.

 

[thejosiekiller]

I was talking about Tony Abbott here. He's an asshole right wing catholic. We don't need to be like ireland. It is a womans decision, a womans body and a womans right to decide what is done with it.

yeah in the end we elect the politicians and if one nutjob gets in i doubt that in australia at the moment howard will be bothered supporting his views on the matter....my opinion of howrad is he's religous to please different sectors and not in anyway a serious religously minded pm at all.

forget tony abbott- he will disappear soon enough

and on the matter of the opinion of the father i would like to think he does have some say, i guess in the end it cant be his decision, but she has to know all her options and if the father is willing to keep and look after the child she has to take it into consideration

 

[Sophie777]

So even tho it's a man's baby TOO he has no say because she births it?!

I'm sure guys would give birth to the babies if they could, but they can't. I think it's selfish, mean to say that a guy should have NO say over their child's life.

You keep ignoring the point i am making. YES YOU GET A SAY. TONY ABBOTT DOESN'T.

You ultimately do not have to have something growing inside you for 9 months and go through the birth process and possibly die.

 

[girlanachronism]

It's not the woman's body, the foetus is its own living creature, true it could not live without the woman throughout most of a pregnancy, but babies cannot live without their mothers even once they are born...
What you're basically saying is that women can kill babies they don't want, or even do it for a laugh if they wanted to as long as they're still in the womb....

ahahaha, no, you are miscontruing what i said you gronk.
up until a certain point, the embryo/fetus is utterly reliant on the mother. it cannot survive outside the womb in any circumstances. therefore it is NOT an autonomous living creature. as long as it is reliant on the mother, it is 100% the mother's choice what to do, just as if the mother got thrush.
babies actually can live without their mothers, that is a dickheadly thing to say. 1) how do you think babies whose mothers died in childbirth survive? magic? 2) what about those given up for adoption?
i have said many times that i am against late term abortions excluding certain circumstances such as the medical safety of the mother. you are miscontruing what i said to make me look like an unfeeling babykiller and therefore you are a complete tool.

 

[timrie6]

So even tho it's a man's baby TOO he has no say because she births it?!

I'm sure guys would give birth to the babies if they could, but they can't. I think it's selfish, mean to say that a guy should have NO say over their child's life.

well he can say look I want you to do this,
and she can say no.
and he can't do anything about that.

its ultimately the female's decision.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm glad you're against late term abortions, i believe that they should limit it at around 12 weeks (to be humane as everything i've read points to them feeling pain at around 12-14 weeks).

I'm sorry if i've made u seem bad, i really don't believe that, it's just comments from timrie have gotten me stirred up a bit, sorry again.

 

[girlanachronism]

well she is right. of course the man should have some say, but in the end there is NOTHING he can do about it.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't think it should be, if there hasn't been rape or the mother's life is not endangered i believe after 12 weeks the mother should have no choice about abortion as it is inhumane and kills another living creature that can feel the pain of having it's limbs ripped off...

And in that case it shouldn't come down to the father or the mother, if they don't want the child it should be put up for adoption and i'm sure that any difficulties it faces with not knowing it's parents are easily countered by the fact that it didn't have it's limbs pulled from it's body (i don't know of any orphans that would claim they wish they weren't alive because of this...)

 

[timrie6]

if there hasn't been rape or the mother's life is not endangered i believe after 12 weeks the mother should have no choice about abortion

you obviously have never and never will know what its like to be pregnant and 15? or to be pregnant and your partner walks out on you? leaving u with absoultely no support, money, education etc.
it happens all the time.

 

[girlanachronism]

oh my god! no aborted fetus 'KNOWS' what has happened to it! it is not autonomous and does not have the capacity to feel like mummy didn't love it! furthermore, after abortion (which takes ~15mins) it doesn't know, feel or sense anything - period!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Give it life, then put it up for adoption!!!

Life is better than Death, especially a particulary PAINFUL death.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It doesn't know but it feels a shitload of pain then dies!
Where as it could of been brought up in an orphanage and had a CHANCE at a good life...

 

[timrie6]

you have no idea of the trauma involved in that
its not that simple

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Oh so there's more trauma in giving a child up to adoption than killing it?

There are many parents out there, including some gays etc, who would make great parents to your child.. why not give them a chance?

 

[timrie6]

maybe if your wonderful prime minister didn't want to ban gays from adopting!