The Australian Flag (2 Viewers)

[Lentern]

I entirely agree with this sentiment. But I would go further than your concerns about structural integrity to add that in my opinion such offensive misuse of the flag should be a criminal offense

Oh hadihaha.

 

[allyuk]

But the flag is fine as it is, and none of those that have been offered as replacements gives the same feeling as the current Australian flag. Why change it?

We are not subordinate to the UK. The British don't think they are better than us. No country thinks that we are somehow under the thumb of the Brits and if anything the world thinks the UK is America's puppet.

And even if the UK does split up there's no reason we should ditch our flag, in fact, that might satisy some of those who are for the changing of the flag as Britain would no long have the union jack.

The flag represents Australia's history, and it's that history that has made australia the country it is today.

 

[Empyrean444]

But the flag is fine as it is, and none of those that have been offered as replacements gives the same feeling as the current Australian flag. Why change it?

Feelings? What feelings? Do you really think that an ugly spattering of the Southern cross on a dull blue background with the Union Jack thrown in really represents Australia? No, it does not; and by definition I think a flag should carry with it a certain aesthetic value or attraction, which our current one so sorely lacks. What does the Southern cross tell about this country? That we're in the Southern Hemisphere? Yeah, real profound self reflection.

The flag represents Australia's history, and it's that history that has made australia the country it is today.

No a flag does not represent a nation's history. A flag represents the current nation as it is to which it belongs. I very much agree with the sentiment that we must explore and be aware of our history, because it has made us what we are; however, it most certainly isn't what we are today. Commemorative events and special days; times set aside for the study of our history itself; discussions and reflections thereof - these are the times when we acknowledge our history and ensure that it is not forgotten. A flag is more a symbol of the present, and thus it should be changed. The Union Jack is not an eternal symbol for Australia; it is an eternal symbol for Britain. We are not currently close enough to the current British culture to give us any reason for holding onto this empty icon.

Of course the options here will not all seem great, because we only have a small sampling of ideas. The construction of the new flag ought to take time and many different suggestions so as to come up with something truly "Australian", rather than something that represents us as a surrogate British culture. Cast aside the old, and produce something we can truly be proud of.

 

[SAVAK]

New zealanders are brain dead. their flag is nearly identical as ours. if we lacked creativity they lacked brains.

 

[allyuk]

I still think the Australian flag is fine as it is..it's a pretty cool flag tbf and it's far more aesthetically pleasing than some others out there. I just don't see much reason for getting rid of a pretty sophisticated and well known flag.

 

[incentivation]

Hold on, I didn't say keep the flag, I said keep the Jack. I certainly question the flag's competency on the whole, but more because of lack of elements than excess of them.

The flag's competency? Right.

If you're going to change the flag, you don't keep the union jack.

 

[love.is.around]

I have nothing against the Australian Flag, but i believe it represents a white society, not a multicultural society.

 

[Felix-x34]

I have nothing against the Australian Flag, but i believe it represents a white society, not a multicultural society.

What the fuck's wrong with a white society? Are you saying white people are evil?

If its perfectly acceptable to have a African society, and a Asian society, whats the big deal about a white society?

We as Australians need not to apologise for who we are and where we come from and we certainly dont need to change aspects of our culture to accommodate the beliefs of others.

Unashamedly, Unwaveringly and Unapologetically Australian
DEFEND OUR FLAG!

 

[Empyrean444]

What the fuck's wrong with a white society? Are you saying white people are evil?

If its perfectly acceptable to have a African society, and a Asian society, whats the big deal about a white society?

We as Australians need not to apologise for who we are and where we come from and we certainly dont need to change aspects of our culture to accommodate the beliefs of others.

Unashamedly, Unwaveringly and Unapologetically Australian
DEFEND OUR FLAG!

No, the problem is not that white is inherently bad, the problem is that it is exclusive and does not reflect Australia as a whole. You seem to equate Australian with White Anglo Saxon, and also seem to think that Australia is a 'white' society. This is false, and there is far too much ethnic diversity to label ourselves so. With such a polyglot composition, far from changing 'our' culture to accommodate beliefs of 'others', we would merely be accepting the fact that Australian culture has changed and evolved from one exclusively 'white'.

 

[JonathanM]

I don't want the fail Union flag anywhere on the Australian flag.


I'm more of a monarchist, so I would like to keep the current Australian flag. It is just how you view it personally and when I see the Australian flag, I feel national pride, but others don't.

Think of all the poor blokes (and there are a lot of them) that have a current Australian flag tattoo somewhere on their body as well

This is false, and there is far too much ethnic diversity to label ourselves so.

This isn't so, Australia has a very predominately anglo ethnic background. What you mean to say, I think, is that we're a very ethnic tolerating country, which would also refute your point in that the majority of the community is white. I get your jist though, and it is valid - our multicultural-accepting society should be acknowledged.

EDIT: I'd just like to provide a citation for my point:
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/Pubs/cib/1996-97/97ci16-2.gif
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/Pubs/cib/1996-97/97ci16-3.gif

 

[Felix-x34]

No, the problem is not that white is inherently bad, the problem is that it is exclusive and does not reflect Australia as a whole. You seem to equate Australian with White Anglo Saxon, and also seem to think that Australia is a 'white' society. This is false, and there is far too much ethnic diversity to label ourselves so. With such a polyglot composition, far from changing 'our' culture to accommodate beliefs of 'others', we would merely be accepting the fact that Australian culture has changed and evolved from one exclusively 'white'.

We are a white society,

At least, I would argue. Ethnicity does not equate to society, but I do believe culture does.

Regardless of how much our culture has changed, we are still a white (Judeo-Christian, to be more PC) society.

Our notions of good and bad, right and wrong, our morality and customs, our political and legal system, our social norms, paradigms and ways of thinking, are all very much elements of a white Judeo-Christian society.

Regardless of how multicultural our nation is, regardless of how many minorities we have or how large they are, they still observe, practice and appreciate the elements that compose the Judeo-Christian society that is Australia.

The liberal-democratic and Judeo-Christian nature of our society is specifically why migrants from all over the world have chosen to be part of it.
And it is extremely unreasonable and unwarranted to change our national symbols because of the idea that we are no longer a white society but rather a non-white one.
Thats not the case because even though our ethnic demographics have changed and even if they change further in the future, our new Australians will still very observe the same white Judeo-Christian culture that existed before them and that will continue to exist even after theirs or other Australian's lifetimes.

Felix

 

[Sicherhetsdient]

not really. Migrants come to this country because its pretty liberal and free. not because of its christian roots. infact, religion is pretty much dead in this country and every time you mention a religion in your post you make me cringe.

oh, you don't need to pander with the jews by mentioning "judeo- christan" law in your posts. Australian law is pretty much nothing like Christan or Jewish law.

and another thing, wtf does religion have to do with the australian flag?

 

[Felix-x34]

not really. Migrants come to this country because its pretty liberal and free. not because of its christian roots. infact, religion is pretty much dead in this country and every time you mention a religion in your post you make me cringe.

If you look at my above post, I did not mention religion even once and thats because I was not referring to it. I was referring to our Judeo-Christian sense of right and wrong: ie. That we only marry ONE spouse

Australian law is pretty much nothing like Christan or Jewish law

lol Are you kidding me? Australian law is Judeo-Christian law.

Open up a Year 12 Legal book or google "Canon Law", "Ecclesiastical Law", "Morality", "Ethics", "Natural Law"

If you did something even as fundamental as year 11 Legal Studies, you wouldn't have made the above statement.

 

[Sicherhetsdient]

If you look at my above post, I did not mention religion even once and thats because I was not referring to it. I was referring to our Judeo-Christian culture, something even I an Atheist, practice and appreciate.



Are you kidding me? open up a Year 12 Legal book or google "Canon Law", "Ecclesiastical Law", "Morality", "Ethics", "Natural Law"

Is you did something as fundamental as year 11 Legal Studies, you wouldn't have made the above statement.

if you go by the definition of Christan law changing every century to keep up with the post Renaissance/age of enlightened period, then yeah..id give you that.

anyways, what does it have to do with the flag.

 

[Felix-x34]

anyways, what does it have to do with the flag.

Yes, off-topic I know, The Aussie culture thread might be more appropriate.

 

[Kwayera]

If you look at my above post, I did not mention religion even once and thats because I was not referring to it. I was referring to our Judeo-Christian sense of right and wrong: ie. That we only marry ONE spouse

Judeo-Christian law? No, it's biological. Our mating system falls between chimpanzees and bonobos - monogamous (bonobos), but with extra-partner coupling/promiscuity (chimpanzees).

 

[CIV1501]

sif ban me for calling people zipperheads

clint eastwood didnt get banned

 

[Iron]

Judeo-Christian law? No, it's biological. Our mating system falls between chimpanzees and bonobos - monogamous (bonobos), but with extra-partner coupling/promiscuity (chimpanzees).

Who's to say that that the biological urges arent governed by Judeo-Christian law?

 

[Silver Persian]

Judeo-Christian law? No, it's biological. Our mating system falls between chimpanzees and bonobos - monogamous (bonobos), but with extra-partner coupling/promiscuity (chimpanzees).

No, it's social. See different courtship rituals and sexual patterns that exist in different cultures and at different periods of history.

 

[DarkDestiny]

WTF how the hell did the conversation come to this, i thought we were talking about the australian flag, now back to the topic. I think the current flag says that we are the property of the british, we should change it to represent "our" country, with "our" native birds, animals, trees and cane toads(even though cane toads are imported). So as far we know we could soon have a flag with a gumtree , a squashed cane toad, a kangaroo, a aboriginal person etc....or to commerate the people who lost their lives in the bushfire a house on fire maybe?