MedVision ad

the hsc cannot tell you how smart you are. discuss (1 Viewer)

Mongke

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
268
Location
the bustle in your hedgerow
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
thats the crux of it brogan; wat is intelligence? but thats more philosophical than i intended, i was wondering if the uai can mirror someones ability, thats all :) after all, they talk about ability all the time in thoes marking guidelines.
 

MoonlightSonata

Retired
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
3,645
Gender
Female
HSC
N/A
1. Psychologists worldwide differ on exactly what constitutes intelligence.

2. Assuming you can measure it, then it is highly likely that there is a rough correlation between good HSC results and high intelligence. Not necessarily, and of course the exceptions are wide and many. But there would be a rough link.

Certainly looking at this relationship when comparing marks close on the spectrum would yield grossly inadequate results. However comparing people's marks across larger gaps would be more accurate, again on average.
 

Mongke

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
268
Location
the bustle in your hedgerow
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
orriginally by Brogan:
How bout this,

If you do good: fuck oath, it does mirror ur ability.
If you do bad: fuck off, it doesn't mirror ur ability.

haha! well i happen to think it can represent ur ability (yes, ive only become optimistic only now its over ;)) i just need someone to prove it.
 
Last edited:

AsyLum

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
15,899
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Airness said:
What's low?
*

Getting a high UAI doesn't guarantee you success, in fact, in most cases it makes you a dickhead, or an even bigger one.
 

AsyLum

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
15,899
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
It represents a person's ability to ROTE learn....
 

Mongke

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
268
Location
the bustle in your hedgerow
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
well ofcorse. i just wasnt inspired by the stress (few are) so i didnt bother killing myself over it. 79 means nothing if u get into the course u want, which i did, so i consider the hsc a success for me. it just doesnt represent my maximum abilities. i dont mind tho, ive made my peace wiht the hsc.
 

wanton-wonton

Active Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
1,415
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Riviet said:
Here's my 2 cents:

The UAI is not a measure of how smart you are. It is a measure of how many courses you are eligible to apply for if you are continuing on to tertiary education at a uni. :)
What? I have never heard anything more wrong in my life, ever. If someone does the same subjects as me, does that make them more or less intelligent than me?

......
 

*Minka*

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
660
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
I was happy with my UAI but I still don't think it is a cirect mesure of my intelligence.
 

Riviet

.
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
5,593
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
wanton-wonton said:
If someone does the same subjects as me, does that make them more or less intelligent than me?
No, it just means they will have more courses to choose from if they are going to uni. :p
 

_dhj_

-_-
Joined
Sep 2, 2005
Messages
1,562
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
(individual circumstances aside) The HSC CAN tell you how smart you are. If you were smart, you'd have played the game according to the rules set out by the BOS, considering how much the HSC is supposed to matter. After all, one of the most important things you need to do in order to succeed in life is to satisfy criterias and requirements. Even if you become an artist, how successful you are is measured by how well you satisfy critical taste.
 
Last edited:

Shell

Boo Hoo
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
2,158
Location
Camden
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
People somehow bring in the UAI when discussing the HSC. the UAI is just a rank. It can't tell you how smart you are, just how competitive you are. If anything, it is a measure of the intelligence of the people you are competing with, not you as an individual. its just a University Admission Index, a number which simply allows unis to be able to control the amount of people in their courses, and naturally, they are going to want the people who work hardest for their positions, thats why higher UAI= better chance of getting into a course.
 

goony

i am here to ride bike
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
1,043
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
I feel it measures the amount of work you do rather than outright intelligence. If you do all the hard work for the hsc you'll be fine, but on the other hand some people don't need to work as hard as others and rely on natural ability, and they still come out with good marks. Then you have some people work hard AND have amazing natural intelligence which both get them the especially high marks.

That being said, i reckon you shouldn't let your UAI define your intelligence. A teacher at my school said "try not to let anyone know your UAI, because you're usually smarter than they think you are, but at the same time you usually aren't as smart as you think you are"
 
Last edited:

fleepbasding

HSC TUTOR
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,134
Location
Sydney- Inner West
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
_dhj_ said:
(individual circumstances aside) The HSC CAN tell you how smart you are. If you were smart, you'd have played the game according to the rules set out by the BOS, considering how much the HSC is supposed to matter. After all, one of the most important things you need to do in order to succeed in life is to satisfy criterias and requirements. Even if you become an artist, how successful you are is measured by how well you satisfy critical taste.
agree exactly.
 

AsyLum

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
15,899
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
_dhj_ said:
(individual circumstances aside) The HSC CAN tell you how smart you are. If you were smart, you'd have played the game according to the rules set out by the BOS, considering how much the HSC is supposed to matter. After all, one of the most important things you need to do in order to succeed in life is to satisfy criterias and requirements. Even if you become an artist, how successful you are is measured by how well you satisfy critical taste.
It can't tell you how smart you are, it is predominantly ROTE learnt, rather than actual skills, it is all, memorise, recall, repeat.

University finds many 'successful' HSC students out because it requests a completely new form of learning for most of them.

Good HSC/UAI does NOT equate to anything more than a good UAI/HSC. You did well on the exam, you increased your capacity to memorise and recall. The End.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Messages
3,492
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
I think that while th HSC isn't the best measure of "omg he's an Albert Einstein/Mozart" intelligence, it is a fairly good measure of life intelligence. To go well in the HSC, you need to be organised you need to know what is expected and you need to know how to give what is expected - which are skills that will be relevant in most occupations. Admittedly, some occupations (artist, hospitaliy) don't require the theoretical intelligence so much, but then thos jobs aren't really the ones you get from doing Uni courses. _Most_ UNI courses require similar skills to the HSC, although more independent thought.

And I'd also like to say the rote learning does come in handy in many parts of the actual world.
 

fleepbasding

HSC TUTOR
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,134
Location
Sydney- Inner West
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
AsyLum said:
It can't tell you how smart you are, it is predominantly ROTE learnt, rather than actual skills, it is all, memorise, recall, repeat.

University finds many 'successful' HSC students out because it requests a completely new form of learning for most of them.

Good HSC/UAI does NOT equate to anything more than a good UAI/HSC. You did well on the exam, you increased your capacity to memorise and recall. The End.
No, you see, I didn't just increase my capacity to memorise and recall (although they were part of it), I developed better writing skills, constructed better arguments, and developed unique insights. I know the HSC isn't like Uni, but Uni isn't the be-all and end-all of education systems. The HSC, while being inferior, still tests a number of things, including intelligence, knowlege (another way of saying "memorising"), aptitude (especially in writing) and dilligence. It's not perfect or anything, but denying some degree of correlation between HSC marks and intelligence is absurd. While I don't think that people with lower UAI's aren't intelligent, I do think that their is a fair bit of certainty that those at the top end are fairly intelligent.
 

AsyLum

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
15,899
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
fleepbasding said:
No, you see, I didn't just increase my capacity to memorise and recall (although they were part of it), I developed better writing skills, constructed better arguments, and developed unique insights. I know the HSC isn't like Uni, but Uni isn't the be-all and end-all of education systems. The HSC, while being inferior, still tests a number of things, including intelligence, knowlege (another way of saying "memorising"), aptitude (especially in writing) and dilligence. It's not perfect or anything, but denying some degree of correlation between HSC marks and intelligence is absurd. While I don't think that people with lower UAI's aren't intelligent, I do think that their is a fair bit of certainty that those at the top end are fairly intelligent.
We're not discussing it DOESN'T correlate, we're saying its a certain kind of correlation, like you said, knowledge/memorising, but it cannot tell you how smart you are.

It is too limited, and tests very minimal criterias for 'success' (you are effectively memorising one essay for the year, and you are allotted a year to 'perfect' and fine-tune this essay, rather than being time-constrained.

Silver Persian said:
I think that while th HSC isn't the best measure of "omg he's an Albert Einstein/Mozart" intelligence, it is a fairly good measure of life intelligence. To go well in the HSC, you need to be organised you need to know what is expected and you need to know how to give what is expected - which are skills that will be relevant in most occupations. Admittedly, some occupations (artist, hospitaliy) don't require the theoretical intelligence so much, but then thos jobs aren't really the ones you get from doing Uni courses. _Most_ UNI courses require similar skills to the HSC, although more independent thought.

And I'd also like to say the rote learning does come in handy in many parts of the actual world.
Furthermore, the abundance of the syllabus and the ever-growing resource list means that most kids are spoonfed, and don't need to develop the skills at all. High School is like a bubble, you are treated within this place outside of other factors, come back after a year and see how your perspective changes.

If you think life intelligence revolves around managing time, then your definition of intelligence is somewhat skewed. Those are life skills, not intelligence.

Most uni courses need the skills, but unfortunately the HSC is becoming more and more spoon fed and stagnant. While you may develop the skills needed, there is nothing inherently special about the HSC which really creates that atmosphere in most of the courses.
 
Last edited:

_dhj_

-_-
Joined
Sep 2, 2005
Messages
1,562
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
(you are effectively memorising one essay for the year, and you are allotted a year to 'perfect' and fine-tune this essay, rather than being time-constrained.
Contrary to popular belief, very few "top" students actually do this.
 

Lundy

Banned
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Messages
2,512
Location
pepperland
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
It's a test of memorisation and regurgitation. Oh, and hard work. That's basically it. Of course smart people are more likely to achieve a smark mark. I think that goes without saying. But a person of average intelligence can work their arse off and achieve the same mark.

So many people crash and burn in university because they arrive at uni with their HSC success behind them, expecting their success in university to be guaranteed, but don't anticipate how different university learning is - you ain't going to be spoon fed. On the other hand, I know some low-UAI earners who've flourished in university.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top