VSU Protest Today (3 Viewers)

[Generator]

Some are important. Some I won't use. Why should I pay for them purely because other people consider them worthwhile? Why can't you grasp that today people do not want to pay for something they dont use, or they personally cannot benefit. We see charity as being beneficial, we don't see the DJ Competition, or "The Cubby" as beneficial

What's wrong with meeting the populist needs? Doesn't that mean it's going to cater for the people who want the services, and will not cater for the people who don't? Sounds terrible. Oooh, you mean things like the "Dj Competition", and "The Cubby" and "Giveaways" will no cease to exist because they do not represent the "populist" needs? Oh no.

At the same time you cannot grasp my point, katie. As for what is wrong with meeting populist needs, well, not a great deal, provided that the needs of all are addressed in someway.

 

[katie_tully]

Right.
2. Your education and the university experience should not be consumerable items, no matter the contemporary politco-economic climate.

You go to university to get a university degree. There was once a time when university was not a social hub, and people went there and left. If you want extra things to make your "social interaction" more enjoyable, or for university to be an "enlightening experience", they are extra's that not everybody should have to pay for, if they arent going to use it. Not everybody is an art's student who feels the need to "discover" themselves and get drunk at the expense of other people.

 

[Korn]

At the same time you cannot grasp my point, katie. As for what is wrong with meeting populist needs, well, not a great deal, provided that the needs of all are addressed in someway.

services that ppl want will be payed for by those ppl.
Why do ppl need uni to make friends? What are u incapable of making friends by ur self? Its not that hard finding ppl with the same interests as urself

 

[katie_tully]

At the same time you cannot grasp my point, katie. As for what is wrong with meeting populist needs, well, not a great deal, provided that the needs of all are addressed in someway.

Generator, what is to say that the needs are not going to be met with VSU? If there is so much backing as you all claim, it wont be affected by a few people choosing not to pay for something they don't use.

USU are all basing their arguments on what they're going to miss, and how their social lives will be affected and how university life isn't a commodity. Well, as soon as you expect other people to pay for it, it does become a commodity. Consumers, ie people who pay, do not pay for things under the premise that they're not going to recieve anything back.

Sure, it is worthwhile in some instances. If that's the feeling felt by all USU supporters, you're not going to lose anything.

 

[Generator]

Yet you hate neo-liberalism and the freedom of VSU, you want a compulory fee USU. How is a system that doesnt benefit the majority better for all?

I hate neoliberalism? I said that I did not like the increasingly neoliberal society that we are living within at the moment. I may not like the process/structure as it exists today, but that does not necessarily mean that I 'hate' its underlying tenets as such.

As for the other point, it's more than clear that we are not seeing eye to eye on the idea of USU benefiting all.

 

[Generator]

You go to university to get a university degree. There was once a time when university was not a social hub, and people went there and left. If you want extra things to make your "social interaction" more enjoyable, or for university to be an "enlightening experience", they are extra's that not everybody should have to pay for, if they arent going to use it. Not everybody is an art's student who feels the need to "discover" themselves and get drunk at the expense of other people.

The arts student. Never mind the fact that the engineers drink more than any other faculty, of course .

You head off to uni to get a degree, and part of that involves 'living', not just studying. Believe it or not, but there is more to 'living' than heading off to the pub for a 'subsidised' beer (in actual fact, manning is suffering as the other local pubs are far more popular amongst the students edit: that is, the students with the time to head off for a beer when at or near uni).

 

[Korn]

I hate neoliberalism? I said that I did not like the increasingly neoliberal society that we are living within at the moment. I may not like the process/structure as it exists today, but that does not necessarily mean that I 'hate' its underlying tenets as such.

As for the other point, it's more than clear that we are not seeing eye to eye on the idea of USU benefiting all.

Well of course we don't I dont see the point in paying for things I will NEVER use, I dont buy my food at uni, I dont drink at the bar, I wont be affected in the slightest (as far as I know, as I cant find a list of services provided by UWS that would affect me) Why should I and others pay for things we wont use just so others can have things THEY WANT and that THEY SHOULD PAY FOR????

 

[AsyLum]

USU funds that?

Sure does, and if you tell MQ that VSU will take that away, you've got a whole campus to contend with

 

[Korn]

The arts student. Never mind the fact that the engineers drink more than any other faculty, of course .

You head off to uni to get a degree, and part of that involves 'living', not just studying. Believe it or not, but there is more to 'living' than heading off to the pub for a 'subsidised' beer (in actual fact, manning is suffering as the other local pubs are far more popular amongst the students).

I say again what services that will be affected cant be done either for free or be provided elsewhere

 

[Generator]

Generator, what is to say that the needs are not going to be met with VSU? If there is so much backing as you all claim, it wont be affected by a few people choosing not to pay for something they don't use.

USU are all basing their arguments on what they're going to miss, and how their social lives will be affected and how university life isn't a commodity. Well, as soon as you expect other people to pay for it, it does become a commodity. Consumers, ie people who pay, do not pay for things under the premise that they're not going to recieve anything back.

Sure, it is worthwhile in some instances. If that's the feeling felt by all USU supporters, you're not going to lose anything.

katie, we aren't seeing eye to eye. I believe that your university life should not be a consumerable experience, yet you believe that by paying a fee it has become a commodity and as such open to the idea of choice. Sure, 'bang for your buck' is a great idea, yet it isn't as though it should drive each and every facet of our lives.

As for it all being worthwhile, my concerns are more than justified given your stance on the list of services provided. The organisations will survive under VSU and the majority should be happy, yet that isn't to say that situation will be better for all. Oh well.

 

[Korn]

katie, we aren't seeing eye to eye. I believe that your university life should not be a consumerable experience, yet you believe that by paying a fee it has become a commodity and as such open to the idea of choice. Sure, 'bang for your buck' is a great idea, yet it isn't as though it should drive each and every facet of our lives.

As for it all being worthwhile, my concerns are more than justified given your stance on the list of services provided. The organisations will survive under VSU and the majority should be happy, yet that isn't to say that situation will be better for all. Oh well.

It's currently not possible to please everyone

 

[William_Lawry]

Sure does, and if you tell MQ that VSU will take that away, you've got a whole campus to contend with

my friend goes to MQ and is for VSU numbnuts, im sure there is a minority at MQ that is against CSU

 

[AsyLum]

my friend goes to MQ and is for VSU numbnuts, im sure there is a minority at MQ that is against CSU

Haha, IT WAS A JOKE GEDDIT A JOKE

 

[walrusbear]

I find it amazing the USU camp people have the audacity to call VSU camp peopole "selfish", for not wanting to shell out $600 a year to fund a range of services they don't use, or that are unncessary. You keep asking VSU people to come up with an argument that isn't selfish, and so far I havent seen one that is selfish. Meanwhile USU camp kids are -
"OMG, you're so selfish, you're going to deplete the student body of all these great services, even if you dont use them you SHOULD BE MADE TO FUND THEM"...

If that $600 a year, which is steep for some uni students, can be used somewhere else to benefit that particular individual, then why should they be expected to support something purely to keep other people happy?

If there's as much support for the union as you all claim, then they can pay for the services they use and everybody will be happy little vegemites.

i agree with generator,
if you're ideologically stuck on this neolib stuff then it'll make no sense to you
but a lot of us think that pushing so hard for the individual undermines community too far (as well as, ironically, fucking over a large number of individuals who NEED union services).

 

[Korn]

i agree with generator,
if you're ideologically stuck on this neolib stuff then it'll make no sense to you
but a lot of us think that pushing so hard for the individual undermines community too far (as well as, ironically, fucking over a large number of individuals who NEED union services).

Then if u want a service pay for it, whats so hard about that to comprehend

 

[walrusbear]

You go to university to get a university degree. There was once a time when university was not a social hub, and people went there and left. If you want extra things to make your "social interaction" more enjoyable, or for university to be an "enlightening experience", they are extra's that not everybody should have to pay for, if they arent going to use it. Not everybody is an art's student who feels the need to "discover" themselves and get drunk at the expense of other people.

exactly what is so wrong about this whole attitude
it's really sad, probably indicative of the social shift our country has gone under with these extremities of neoliberalism

imo you shuldn't be allowed to get your degree if you refuse to contribute to university through a union that allows student rep, not to mention creating essentially all of university cultural life

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Where are these large number of individuals that need UNION Services Walrusbear?!
If next year when VSU is implemented there are large droves of single parents crying that they can't get day care (which would be the last service i feel should be denied to union members, and i would be willing to contribute if it was only to a service like that) I will admit i was wrong and VSU is a bad thing.
But i can't see that happening.

Walrusbear, you may think that u shouldn't get a degree unless u contribute but u know what? some people DON'T want that life, and you can call them greedy and evil but they're just normal people like you who like making friends outside of uni.

edit: as generator said, the system will survive (which is a good thing), they may have to cut some redundant services (oh no! not become efficient) but on the whole vsu won't destroy unions (imo) AND at the same time university life will be made better for those who don't want to be a part of the union. So sure, university life will be slightly worse for pro union people (50%) but university life will be better for non-unionists too (50%).

 

[walrusbear]

Then if u want a service pay for it, whats so hard about that to comprehend

i do, i pay my union fees at the start of the year

is collectivism really so evil?
everyone here is so so dislocated and rightwing

seems like everyone deems paying for things at a subsidised rate at university as 'unnecessary', and would much rather spend money as an individual outside of campus.
i'm guessing it essentially comes from a contempt for unions.

this is really an ideological argument here. i think you're understanding of university is narrow minded (refusing to consider it as anything but a degree factory). i think it's really sad but i suppose it's true.
i'll do anything i can to fight it but essentially VSU is going to pass so you people have nothing to worry about.
it's people who valued university as more than a consumer product that take it in the arse here.

btw, have i mentioned that i have contempt for your world view?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

walrusbear, look at the "where do you stand" thing, it's not that everything here is so right wing, it's that you're left wing. From my perspective, everything here is so leftwing.

Your arguments are ideological too i.e. "...collectivism is good"
Valued university as more than a consumer product? wtf? how does wanting union membership to become voluntary mean that we value it less?

 

[walrusbear]

Where are these large number of individuals that need UNION Services Walrusbear?!
If next year when VSU is implemented there are large droves of single parents crying that they can't get day care (which would be the last service i feel should be denied to union members, and i would be willing to contribute if it was only to a service like that) I will admit i was wrong and VSU is a bad thing.
But i can't see that happening.

Walrusbear, you may think that u shouldn't get a degree unless u contribute but u know what? some people DON'T want that life, and you can call them greedy and evil but they're just normal people like you who like making friends outside of uni.

edit: as generator said, the system will survive (which is a good thing), they may have to cut some redundant services (oh no! not become efficient) but on the whole vsu won't destroy unions (imo) AND at the same time university life will be made better for those who don't want to be a part of the union. So sure, university life will be slightly worse for pro union people (50%) but university life will be better for non-unionists too (50%).

we'll have to wait and see, but personally i'm very cynical of this VSU shite.
i'm guessing the union will die.
i'm certain it was an ideological attack from the government, borne out of their contempt for intellectualism and unions.
nowhere has nelson actually sold this policy as an actual reform for unions or in anyway enhancing or enriching university life.
it's been sold from day one as a tax cut essentially. 'look everyone, i saved you $600' - and it works well i guess. most of you value money above everything else so there's no point in arguing.

btw, how many jobs in the union are going to be lost with VSU passed?