Was that a Maths exam? (4 Viewers)

[biopia]

I think you may have misinterpreted what darkchild, the physics teacher, meant.
I think what he was trying to say is that in some questions, you need a correct value as a result of correct substitutions.
E.g. if you needed to calculate the acceleration due to gravity on some distant planet and the correct answer was 2.36 m/s^2. If you put 2.3614 m.s^2, then that would be correct too (i.e. it's not about the number of decimal places). However, if through your methods (which I am not denying) you got a value of 2.24 m/s^2, I imagine you would lose a mark. Perhaps it's a bad example, but sometimes, a question calls for only one correct numerical value, not a value that is close enough.

 

[cutemouse]

Nope. I do have a problem with you putting people down purely on the basis that they do 3U Maths, and not 4U.

What the hell are you talking about? Where was I putting them down? My point was that if you do 3U mathematics you have to do 2U aswell, which involves using your calculator for loan repayments etc. Obviously in 3U/4U it's a bit more theoretical than that.

And I think darkchild may know a -little- more about Physics than you.

And I think my Physics teacher, who has taught HSC Physics for some 36 years, and A levels for 7 years in the UK before (and was a senior marker for the HSC at one point) would know quite alot aswell He says what I'm doing is fine since I do get the same answer as everyone else that uses a calculator.

Say the answer (ie. exact) for a particular question is 2.64.. seconds ... I will not lose a mark if I put down 2.6 s. So I don't know what you guys mean by the fact that I'll be losing a mark for mentally calculating things.

Also when you use a calculator, there no point in using one if you do not know what values you will be expecting. For example, someone in our Physics trials got the period of a satellite being 2 seconds, using Kelper's Laws, which is obviously wrong. Turns out he forgot to cube something the radius. I, on the other hand got the correct answer.

As for the proof, I cbf trawling through posts, but yeah, you've done it many a time before.

Prove it.

 

[study-freak]

What the hell are you talking about? Where was I putting them down? My point was that if you do 3U mathematics you have to do 2U aswell, which involves using your calculator for loan repayments etc. Obviously in 3U/4U it's a bit more theoretical than that.


And I think my Physics teacher, who has taught HSC Physics for some 36 years, and A levels for 7 years in the UK before (and was a senior marker for the HSC at one point) would know quite alot aswell He says what I'm doing is fine since I do get the same answer as everyone else basically that uses a calculator.


Prove it.

I think this debate is totally useless and stupid.
I'm sure that if you guys couldn't reach an agreement till now, you are unlikely to do so in the future.

Wait for the results that will be out on the 16th Dec.
Then you guys will see whose Physics knowledge was more superior at the time of examination (at least for the 2009 HSC paper). However, I guess even this will not resolve your great debate on exact value determination.


And to jm01: I'm not trying to compose a counter-argument against you but your teacher is not the God of HSC Physics so why don't you and others just inquire about this to the board...

 

[cutemouse]

And to jm01: I'm not trying to compose a counter-argument against you but your teacher is not the God of HSC Physics

He actually is... He got alot of the (ie. content) stuff cut out of the course during the proposals for a new course before 2001 as he knew someone quite high up in the BOS back then.

 

[study-freak]

He actually is... He got alot of the (ie. content) stuff cut out of the course during the proposals for a new course before 2001 as he knew someone quite high up in the BOS back then.

Still doesn't really say anything definite
Knowing a person with power=/=God
And marking scheme has nothing to do with cutting the course down

But lol... I don't really want to take part in the argument (although I did by showing my opinion).

 

[addikaye03]

lol, I just realised that you only did MX1. Enough said

I kind of disagree.
They're testing your ability to apply maths in solving Physics problems.

Obviously in 3U/4U it's a bit more theoretical than that.

You're constantly contradicting yourself, the top is just an obvious put down, do you think they we're are all dumber than you or something?

And, it says correct value, you have to much room for error. As aerath demonstrated before you wouldn't get the same answer e.g. 26.3 instead of 25.6, which is what could very well happen with your method.
Yes they may accept 2.6 instead of 2.64 but they wouldn't accept a whole number error.

You and you're teacher are wrong, your teacher shouldn't have said it was ok for you go without a calculator

 

[cutemouse]

You're constantly contradicting yourself, the top is just an obvious put down, do you think they we're are all dumber than you or something?

Prove it.

And, it says correct value, you have to much room for error...which is what could very well happen with your method.

But it has never happened. How would you explain that? And explain the example I provided before about someone forgetting to cube 'r' in Kepler's laws and me getting that question correct in our HSC trials (without using a calculator).

You and you're teacher are wrong, your teacher shouldn't have said it was ok for you go without a calculator

No, my teacher is not wrong as he seldom uses a calculator too.

 

[cutemouse]

And marking scheme has nothing to do with cutting the course down

He was a senior marker in the HSC too, if you read my previous post.

 

[addikaye03]

Prove it.

The quotes above do prove it. Just give up with this point, you were clearly trying to put him down.

But it has never happened. How would you explain that? And explain the example I provided before about someone forgetting to cube 'r' in Kepler's laws and me getting that question correct in our HSC trials (without using a calculator).

That's a human error, not a calculation error you idiot. If he cube rooted he would have got the answer (a far more accurate answer than you). Calculation error is losing presicion through sig figs or d.p, which is what you do.

No, my teacher is not wrong as he seldom uses a calculator too.

I wasn't question whether your teacher got calculation error too, but it's wrong how he told you it will be ok if you don't take a calculator into the exams. That is what i was questioning.

 

[helper]

Take for example 2008 HSC.

17a) the marking scheme says: "States the correct value". Doesn't matter if your substitution line is correct, if your answer is wrong, you just don't get the marks. Game over.

That because there was no working involved in that question, it was reading off a graph

If you state the correct answer, with no working then that is normally considered to be proof of correct substitution and marked correct. If you subst correctly and then make a calculator error you will normally receive the mark as well.

There are times that a correct answer isn't accepted. That is when it is a number that is given in the question and is also the correct answer. Writing the number down often won't receive the mark.

 

[cutemouse]

you were clearly trying to put him down.

you idiot.

Pot calling the kettle black much?

If he cube rooted he would have got the answer (a far more accurate answer than you). Calculation error is losing presicion through sig figs or d.p, which is what you do.

No, if he cubed 'r' then he would've gotten the correct answer. Note that I said he was finding 'T', the period.

I wasn't question whether your teacher got calculation error too, but it's wrong how he told you it will be ok if you don't take a calculator into the exams. That is what i was questioning.

It's only wrong if he/she knows that the student is unable to make calculations without using a calculator.

You still haven't explained how I've managed to get the same answers in tests as everyone else using a calculator throughout the year.

That because there was no working involved in that question, it was reading off a graph

If you state the correct answer, with no working then that is normally considered to be proof of correct substitution and marked correct. If you subst correctly and then make a calculator error you will normally receive the mark as well.

There are times that a correct answer isn't accepted. That is when it is a number that is given in the question and is also the correct answer. Writing the number down often won't receive the mark.

+1

 

[random-1005]

The quotes above do prove it. Just give up with this point, you were clearly trying to put him down.




That's a human error, not a calculation error you idiot. If he cube rooted he would have got the answer (a far more accurate answer than you). Calculation error is losing presicion through sig figs or d.p, which is what you do.




I wasn't question whether your teacher got calculation error too, but it's wrong how he told you it will be ok if you don't take a calculator into the exams. That is what i was questioning.

no point trying to argue with him anymore, hopefully he messes up in uni without a cal. *cough* if he does get to uni lol

 

[cutemouse]

I forgot to mention above, that I just don't think it's possible for any student of HSC level to do the Physics exams without a calculator. And even if they could, why would you? You spend 2 mins more trying to get an inaccurate answer, than the kid who typed it into his/her calculator, where they'd get an accurate one.

As I've said before... Personal preference. I find that it actually takes me more time to use a calculator, and I find it too hard to be honest.

Anyway I think 'Helper' in his (or her) wisdom has pretty much summed up and ended this argument.

Next time maybe you people should consider that you may be actually wrong and value others' input (consider the fact that it's okay to be wrong... for once). I mean seriously, my teacher has only taught HSC Physics so some 36 years (amongst other credentials), as I've said above, doesn't that tell you something? I for one, haven't gone wrong following his instructions/being taught by him. He's one of the proper Physics teacher out there, that can teach Physics (which seems quite rare as seen by the views of students in this thread).

Anyway, I'm out of this thread /unsubscribes.

EDIT:

no point trying to argue with him anymore

Why not? I know it sucks being wrong, so I understand your situation But I do admire your courage to yet post in this thread after being *so correct* all along

hopefully he messes up in uni without a cal.

I'm not doing maths in uni, so that basically voids that point

But I think it's worth noting that in some courses at uni, it yet again doesn't matter.

*cough* if he does get to uni lol

I don't think I need to worry, unlike some

 

[addikaye03]

Next time maybe you people should consider that you may be actually wrong and value others' input (consider the fact that it's okay to be wrong... for once). I mean seriously, my teacher has only taught HSC Physics so some 36 years (amongst other credentials), as I've said above, doesn't that tell you something? I for one, haven't gone wrong following his instructions/being taught by him. He's one of the proper Physics teacher out there, that can teach Physics (which seems quite rare as seen by the views of students in this thread).

I give up, you will never learn, nothing Aerath said was wrong . Also, let me make this clear, no one gives the slightest shit about your teacher.

/thread

 

[cutemouse]

I give up, you will never learn, nothing Aerath said was wrong .

Really? Who are you trying to convince? I think the evidence up there is crystal clear.

Why don't you lead by example and learn to back down when you're wrong Also learn to do calculations without using a calculator whilst you're at it

Also, let me make this clear, no one gives the slightest shit about your teacher.

/thread

If no one gives a "slightest shit" to my teacher, then how much "slightest shit" would people give to you, ie. to someone who was wrong, when my teacher was correct.

But then again, you're not often right, but *drum rolls* ... you're wrong again. He's actually known as the best Physics teacher in our school, so I think alot of people do give alot of "slightest shits".

It really does suck being wrong doesn't it? :apig:

/resubscribes to this thread and grabs popcorn. This is getting funnier by the second

 

[GUSSSSSSSSSSSSS]

ok seriously jm01 just shut the fuck up, (brings back memories of "non uniform circular motion thread) clearly u just want everyone to know that u do the calculations in ur head with ur incessant repetition of "why does everyone have a problem with me not using a calculator?!?!?!" and now ur just acting like a dikhead with ur "omg sucks being wrong n00bzor"

so basically: yay ur awesome cos u approximate calculations in ur head, now that ur ego has been satisfied, can u like stop it????

 

[biopia]

I now direct you to a quote from the sitcom 'Friends':

Phoebe: Ok, Ross, could you just open your mind like this much, ok? Wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the world was flat? And, up until like what, 50 years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess of crap came out. Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?

 

[cutemouse]

repetition of "why does everyone have a problem with me not using a calculator?!?!?!"

This is not HSC English. Kindly, quit with the BS.

and now ur just acting like a dikhead with ur "omg sucks being wrong n00bzor"

Read the previous pages. It's exactly what these people have been doing: ie. saying that I'm wrong. Why can't I now teach them a lesson and say to them blow it back in their face?

so basically: yay ur awesome cos u approximate calculations in ur head, now that ur ego has been satisfied, can u like stop it????

There was no ego to begin with. It only started because people had a problem with it. I don't boast about the fact that I can't use a calculator. I wish I could, but I can't. I make errors every time I use one (either I forget a parenthesis or confuse minus with divide, etc).

Obviously since what I've been saying has been confirmed by a HSC marker(?)/teacher in this thread, these numb skulls have actually shut up, knowing that they were wrong the whole way through. It indeed would be quite embarrassing for them. But hey, they were saying that I was wrong the whole way through. Just giving them a taste of their own medicine. I even illustrated how I do it by listing my though process, but that wasn't enough for these people and Mr Aerath, at one point, was so desperate for evidence against me, that he took a past HSC question out of context. Now since that's been revealed, it must be truly suck for him.

I mean, why couldn't people have just accepted that I was correct in the first place and not mock me for my inability to use a calculator?

 

[youngminii]

jm shut the fuck up
no one thinks you're cool, or big, or right for that matter

 

[Phoenix Fury]

WTF, he is my hero! I get down on my knees and pray for direction and guidance from the almighty jm01 and he listens to me. He understands me. My life has meaning now that i have found jm01, and now im starting to learn the magic of numbers. He comes to me in my sleep and tells an inspiring tale of what man and number can achieve when they work in harmony, in unison.

You would all do well to learn this.