Western Muslims' Racist Rape Spree (2 Viewers)

[hYperTrOphY]

Muslims seem to always defend their religion after the actions of 'extremists' by arguing that such people have mis-interpreted the Quran. I have not bought or read the book - the Quran - and I cannot read/speak Arabic. However, can someone explain how any part or parts of the Quran are mis-interpreted? And are such mis-interpretations occuring at Islamic schools and places of worship, or only by individuals who "are not really Muslims"?
I have even seen people quote from the Quran (in English), only to have Muslims argue that it is out of context or mis-interpreted... Does this not pose problems for Australian muslims who cannot read Arabic?

Another argument advocated by Muslims is that it is only extremists who hold such views that are criticised by Western media/society. However, I have often wondered if the only difference between an extremist Muslim and a 'moderate Muslim' is that extremists act on their impulses and beliefs, whereas moderate Muslims, while also having similar values, have adequate inhibitions (possibly through the socialisation process in Australian society) which prevent them from acting illegally on behalf of Islam. I may be completely wrong, it is just something I have wondered. I know a Muslim girl and at the time of the so called, "Cronulla Riots" she had an MSN name and display picture which illustrated her support to the "Wogs" and Muslims. To cut the story short, when I asked her if she would prefer Australia to be an Islamic country, she refused to answer. So, even though she is a friendly girl, has friends from different races and religions, hasn't comitted any crimes - does she still hold the views (maybe not to the same degree) of the extremists; and do these views represent Islam? These are not necessarily rhetorical questions, I honestly do not know.

 

[sly fly]

i hate that argument.

You hating the argument doesn't invalidate it

Every muslim extemists, believes he is doing it to please allah and help defend islam from disbelievers.

What he believes and the reality are two completely different things. God states that ''the killing of one innocent life is equivalent to killing the whole of humanity and the saving of one innocent life is equivalent to saving the whole of humanity''.......so these people shall be punished by God, they're not pleasing God.

THis is because he was taught to be a muslim. there is something terribly wrong with those people who do it, i believe that, and i also aknowledge that there are people all over the world who are capable of such a thing. but we dont see those amounts of extrimists comng out of any other religoin. and the thing is , these type of people who become extremists, need a trigger that makes them become an extrimist., This is where islam comes in. It triggers those type of people into becaoming extremists because of their nature. so islam is to blame as the major contributer.

Have you ever considered that these extremists might not even be Muslim? What I mean is, say for example, Osama wasn't really a Muslim, but he just claims he is Muslim because he has a vendetta against Islam or something, and so he wants to make Islam look bad. So some of these extremists may not even be Muslim, but rather, just state that they are Muslim to fulfill whatever agenda they may have. You yourself state that these people ''need a trigger that makes them become an extremist'', implying that these people are already screwed up in the head (excuse my language). You contradicted yourself because you stated that Islam acts as a ''trigger'', meaning it is only a minor thing in them committing these acts, a stepping stone.....so then how can it be the major contributor?

Anyway, I honestly don't understand how you can say that Islam is the major contributor. I've studied Islam for a few years now and it doesn't promote terrorism or anything of the sort.

 

[sly fly]

Muslims seem to always defend their religion after the actions of 'extremists' by arguing that such people have mis-interpreted the Quran. I have not bought or read the book - the Quran - and I cannot read/speak Arabic. However, can someone explain how any part or parts of the Quran are mis-interpreted?

Just like anything is misinterpreted. For example, some things in the quran are literal whereas others are metaphorical, some things in the quran only apply to a certain group of people whereas others apply to everybody, some things only apply at certain times whereas others are timeless. So in order to differentiate between which things apply to which time for example, the quran needs to be interpreted.

And are such mis-interpretations occuring at Islamic schools and places of worship, or only by individuals who "are not really Muslims"?

Ok I'm not really sure what you mean by that. There are highly knowledgable Islamic scholars who interpret the quran according to the rules of interpretation. Not just anybody can interpret the quran, one needs to be highly familiar with the ahadith, the history of Islam, the syntax and so on.......especially with the complexity of the Arabic language. Even a letter/word/full stop/stuff like that, can change the whole meaning of a sentence. So kids at schools or people at mosques don't interpret the quran. That's the difference between 'moderate' Muslims and extremists. Moderate Muslims will go with the interpretations of the scholars who have carefully studied the quran, the language used, the history of Islam etc etc etc whereas the extremists simply read the Quran and interpret it to suit their own agenda's, or interpret it at face value......< that's how misinterpretations occur.

I have even seen people quote from the Quran (in English), only to have Muslims argue that it is out of context or mis-interpreted... Does this not pose problems for Australian muslims who cannot read Arabic?

Not really, because average people aren't supposed to interpret the quran in the first place.

Another argument advocated by Muslims is that it is only extremists who hold such views that are criticised by Western media/society. However, I have often wondered if the only difference between an extremist Muslim and a 'moderate Muslim' is that extremists act on their impulses and beliefs, whereas moderate Muslims, while also having similar values, have adequate inhibitions (possibly through the socialisation process in Australian society) which prevent them from acting illegally on behalf of Islam.

I see what your saying but that isn't the case. If that were the case then even moderate Muslims would believe, for example, that raping is ok but simply not put it into practice. Though, this is not the case. The actual beliefs and values held by the two groups are completely different. Also, you mention the socialisation process in Australia.....but that isn't the case, the vast majority of Muslims overseas (such as in the Middle East), would condemn the actions of extremists.

I may be completely wrong, it is just something I have wondered. I know a Muslim girl and at the time of the so called, "Cronulla Riots" she had an MSN name and display picture which illustrated her support to the "Wogs" and Muslims. To cut the story short, when I asked her if she would prefer Australia to be an Islamic country, she refused to answer. So, even though she is a friendly girl, has friends from different races and religions, hasn't comitted any crimes - does she still hold the views (maybe not to the same degree) of the extremists; and do these views represent Islam? These are not necessarily rhetorical questions, I honestly do not know.

Well if the girl had a display pic supporting the riots then that was wrong of her, and she does not represent Islam......and no, those views do not represent Islam.

Anyway, it sounds like you're sincerely wondering which is great - and asking questions is a practice of the wise

 

[withoutaface]

Moonlight - if Khalid Yassin was indeed preaching for Muslims to abstain from having non muslim friends (I wouldn't be surprised if he was) and was not taken out of context, then he was wrong for doing so. Islam does not prevent us from having friends who are not Muslims. In fact, I believe the prophet (s) himself had non-Muslim friends.

Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers. 5:51

[comment]blah blah blah[/comment]

 

[sly fly]

^ LOL didn't you just read what I wrote about interpreting the quran at face value and ordinary people interpreting the quran

 

[withoutaface]

That is a very explicit passage, and if you think there is another interpretation you're just submitting to the thoughts of scholars who wish to control the Muslim community over the word of god Himself.

 

[veterandoggy]

[comment]blah blah blah[/comment]

well, i can tell you when the verse was revealed, but im not going to attempt to explain it now, becasue im not with the nowledge to at the moment.

ibn is'haq reported that ubada bin as'amit said: when bany qaynaqa'a fought Chepth with the command of abd Allah bin Ubay bin Salool, ubada bin as'amit walked to the messenger of Allah and disavowed to Allah of the people who joined with the enemies of Allah and his messenger. so allah revealed that verse.

 

[withoutaface]

But surely Allah could forsee its misuse in the years to come (all knowing) and would have made it something more like "Take neither Christians nor Jews in the armies of our enemies to be your friends" or something equivalent.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Just like anything is misinterpreted. For example, some things in the quran are literal whereas others are metaphorical, some things in the quran only apply to a certain group of people whereas others apply to everybody, some things only apply at certain times whereas others are timeless. So in order to differentiate between which things apply to which time for example, the quran needs to be interpreted.

Yea, for example alot of muslims like to claim certain verses are predictions about the future, or examples of how scientifically accurate the book is. People who are not idiots, can see what the verses probably really mean.

 

[veterandoggy]

Yea, for example alot of muslims like to claim certain verses are predictions about the future, or examples of how scientifically accurate the book is. People who are not idiots, can see what the verses probably really mean.

if a person off the street claims these from their knowledge, then they are fools. but if someone has spent 3/4 years overseas in a sheikh college and has considerable knowledge about the quran, then i wouldnt be quick to denounce him and all he says.

 

[sly fly]

That is a very explicit passage, and if you think there is another interpretation you're just submitting to the thoughts of scholars who wish to control the Muslim community over the word of god Himself.

Yes, it seems like an explicit verse but it's not........and where do you think scholars get their interpretations from? They interpret the quran through various means....the best way to interpret the quran is through the quran itself......also, some verses have been interpreted by the Prophet (s) and his family already. So it's not like the verses are interpreted by the whims of these scholars, they interpret the quran using the established procedure for quranic interpretation.

 

[sly fly]

But surely Allah could forsee its misuse in the years to come (all knowing) and would have made it something more like "Take neither Christians nor Jews in the armies of our enemies to be your friends" or something equivalent.

If people are going to ignorantly interpret the quran the way they see fit then that's their problem. The prophet (s) has warned against people interpreting the quran the way they like.

 

[withoutaface]

if a person off the street claims these from their knowledge, then they are fools. but if someone has spent 3/4 years overseas in a sheikh college and has considerable knowledge about the quran, then i wouldnt be quick to denounce him and all he says.

They may have the knowledge, but who says they're not subconciously trying to find workarounds to make the verses fit their narrow view of the world?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If people are going to ignorantly interpret the quran the way they see fit then that's their problem. The prophet (s) has warned against people interpreting the quran the way they like.

Exactly. The prophet was being literal with every single verse, otherwise he would of said 'OH BTW THIS PART IS A METAPHOR! LMFAO!'. Those who do not take him seriously will feel god's wrath.

 

[get_born]

They may have the knowledge, but who says they're not subconciously trying to find workarounds to make the verses fit their narrow view of the world?

If that was the case why spend those years studying. That's like saying one wants to study to become a doctor and then by the end of it decides to one day not to sterolise his patient's needle.

 

[get_born]

Exactly. The prophet was being literal with every single verse, otherwise he would of said 'OH BTW THIS PART IS A METAPHOR! LMFAO!'. Those who do not take him seriously will feel god's wrath.

The work's of Shakespeare don't tell you that there is a metaphor/simile after every time there is one.

 

[sly fly]

Exactly. The prophet was being literal with every single verse, otherwise he would of said 'OH BTW THIS PART IS A METAPHOR! LMFAO!'. Those who do not take him seriously will feel god's wrath.

Uh, I don't really understand your post. The prophet didn't interpret every single verse as being literal.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If that was the case why spend those years studying. That's like saying one wants to study to become a doctor and then by the end of it decides to one day not to sterolise his patient's needle.

It's not a conscious thing... we have the same problem with our judges interpreting our laws.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The work's of Shakespeare don't tell you that there is a metaphor/simile after every time there is one.

Yea but shakespear was telling a story, he wasn't creating a guide for people to live their lives by in order to satisfy god. When scientists explain something to people, they do not use obscure metaphors because this leads to confusion... which you do not want when you're dealing with something fairly serious.

 

[withoutaface]

If that was the case why spend those years studying. That's like saying one wants to study to become a doctor and then by the end of it decides to one day not to sterolise his patient's needle.

No. It is more like if he has diagnosed several patients in the last few days to have disease X, and another patient comes in with disease Y, but this disease has the same symptoms as X, he is likely to dismiss it as X because this fits a pattern and how his recent thinking has been established.