Catholic Church and HIV/AIDS in Africa. (5 Viewers)

[Lentern]

Lentern stop this bullshit where you act like "Oh well yeah, the Pope blatantly lies and says that condoms spread aids and don't work, but who cares, no harm done, they shouldn't be having sex anyway."

1. People are raped, and condoms enable sex between married couples without possibly spreading any dieseases contracted.
2. People are born with aids, and condoms allow married couples etc etc.
3. Africa is already way way overpopulated; did you know that a quarter of allow greenhouse emissions each year come from the razing of African forrests and other plants so that there is enough room for the rapidly expanding population to live? And did you know that there is a massive fucking food and water shortage in Africa?
Condoms allow married couples to have sex without having shit loads of kids, somethign Africa REALLY does not need atm.

Contraception could do alot of good in Africa, I have never denied that. I have said that Rome's views on contraception is not what is causing the epidemic.

 

[Iron]

suffering succotash sylvester, are you saying that we should promote condoms among rapists who would otherwise have little regard for their
victims?

 

[SylviaB]

suffering succotash sylvester, are you saying that we should promote condoms among rapists who would otherwise have little regard for their
victims?

Noooo. I don't mean the rapists using condoms, I'm saying if you've been raped but want to have sex with your current or future partner, and suspect you may have aids but don't want to pass it on to them, then condoms can greatly lower the risks.

 

[Iron]

...
condom or not, would you have sex with a hiv/aids victim?

 

[Tully B.]

If 46.5% of them follow the popes word then they will be abstaining and at a lower risk of contracing AIDS then if they were having unrestrained sex with anything that moves but using a rubber.

But you must realise that there is a middle ground. It can't just be: abstinence and no condomns, sex and no condomns, NO CONDOMNS!

Simple fact is, if the Church shut their mouth about condoms, the epidemic would lessen in severity, which means that they have a negative influence on its severity.

I realise that we will always disagree on this, especially now that we've boiled our disagreement down to one key point: I think the prevention of a positive influence equates to a negative influence, and you do not.

That doesn't mean we have to stop arguing though...

 

[SylviaB]

...
condom or not, would you have sex with a hiv/aids victim?

1. The point is that they might not know if they have aids or not.

2. I personally wouldn't, but I've never loved someone the way I would love a wife.

 

[Tully B.]

1. The point is that they might not know if they have aids or not.

2. I personally wouldn't, but I've never loved someone the way I would love a wife.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Iron on this one. If you truly loved your partner, and had HIV, then you wouldn't be willing to take the 10-15% risk of her catching it.

Nice sig picture but.

 

[kingbigboyjames]

1. The point is that they might not know if they have aids or not.

2. I personally wouldn't, but I've never loved someone the way I would love a wife.

fucking LOL at the sig.

 

[Tully B.]

fucking LOL at the sig.

It was used (by Sylvester, I think) early on in the discussion. Doesn't get old.

 

[Lentern]

But you must realise that there is a middle ground. It can't just be: abstinence and no condomns, sex and no condomns, NO CONDOMNS!

Simple fact is, if the Church shut their mouth about condoms, the epidemic would lessen in severity, which means that they have a negative influence on its severity.

I realise that we will always disagree on this, especially now that we've boiled our disagreement down to one key point: I think the prevention of a positive influence equates to a negative influence, and you do not.

That doesn't mean we have to stop arguing though...

I think if you start lambasting people for stopping doing good once they have started you're going to have people alot more hesistant to do it in the first instance and I think none of us want that.

 

[xeuyrawp]

suffering succotash sylvester, are you saying that we should promote condoms among rapists who would otherwise have little regard for their
victims?

*cough* strawman *cough*

People who have a grip on reality suggest that condoms should form part of a much larger campaign to promote serious solutions to health issues in Africa. Fullstop.

Not sure what else can be said? /shrug

 

[Tully B.]

I think if you start lambasting people for stopping doing good once they have started you're going to have people alot more hesistant to do it in the first instance and I think none of us want that.

That's just it. I'm not "lambasting" the people who stopped doing good (i.e. the Gov distributing contraception), I'm doing it to the people who made the people stop doing good (i.e. the Catholic Church).

In any case, even if we were to place the blame on the Government, I don't think it would make them hesitant to do good, rather it would make them hesitant to stop doing good.

 

[Iron]

*cough* strawman *cough*

People who have a grip on reality suggest that condoms should form part of a much larger campaign to promote serious solutions to health issues in Africa. Fullstop.

Not sure what else can be said? /shrug

Of course I agree

Just dont expect the church to help

 

[SylviaB]

Of course I agree

Just dont expect the church to help

That's the thing, it's not that they not helping, it's that they're actually working against it .

 

[Tully B.]

Of course I agree

Just dont expect the church to help

I don't expect them to help, but I do think that is wrong of them to prevent help. What do you think on that count?

EDIT: So, basically what Sylvester said above.

 

[Iron]

They hold a position consistent with Christian values. They hold this position universally - even in Australia! If you dont like the position, exercise your free will and leave the Church or at least become a Catholic with options (protestant)

But vengeance is mine, saith the Lord.

 

[Tully B.]

Hahaha. Catholic with options.
Do you believe it necessary to believe everything the Pope says in order to be a Catholic?

Whether what they're doing is a good thing or not, do you, Iron, believe that some of the actions of the Church result in a negative influence on the AIDs epidemic. I don't care if this negative influence is actually at the cost of positively influencing something else (i.e. taking money out of contraception distribution and into food distribution); I just want a straight answer.

 

[Iron]

I'm not sure what sinister role you believe the Church to have in this (like bombing ships delivering condoms, performing roadsides on vendors etc) but afaik, they merely say that the use of such devices is contrary to the Christian message.

 

[Iron]

Ok. We'll just see whose message is most enduring and meet in Paris on the 80th day

The Queen herself will wave your surrender flag

 

[Tully B.]

Ok. We'll just see whose message is most enduring and meet in Paris on the 80th day

The Queen herself will wave your surrender flag

I'm sorry, what?