Burn a flag :) (2 Viewers)

[poorna]

so u'd accept a concept that is very communist-like?



what exactly makes them cowards?[/quoteWhy do you thing so.............!]

 

[funnybunny]

burning aflag is really rediculus it is opposing the pride of the nation

What? Australia has pride in a piece of fabric which can be likened to a pile of shit?

 

[Generator]

What? Australia has pride in a piece of fabric which can be likened to a pile of shit?

The flag does represent something to a great many people, funnybunny, much like the way in which the koran and pictures (or lack thereof) of the Islamic prophet represent a great deal to a number of other people.

Please, don't liken the flag in its entirety to a pile of shit - the fabric itself may be of similar value (if it's from a very, very poor roll of fabric), but the complexity of meaning and historical value expressed within the flag and its associated practices are hardly that worthless.

 

[scarybunny]

What? Australia has pride in a piece of fabric which can be likened to a pile of shit?

what? you have pride in yourself, and that can also be likened to a pile of shit.

 

[ohdato]

Its not the fabric that matters its what the flag represents that matters the most.
This is what most of you cant understand you only look at it as if its something
bought from Spotlight at $3 a metre.

Young men fought for our freedom, because of them we live free
and as happy as we do today. Its this that everyone forgets, they gave
their lives, yet majority of us don't give two flying shits what they did
and what for.

It also represents the ideals we take pride in as Australian's. Regardless
of it having a Union Jack, its what we symbolise as being "Australian".
It represents the beliefs that we Australian's about a fair go for all.

Its pathetic for people carrying out the act of burning the flag to
hide behind the "freedom of speech" clause, Its just a means to create
attention and have a way of getting out of it.
The best thing would be to make it illegal, just to shut up all the ignorant,
idealistic fuckers.

 

[Pol Pot]

Its not the fabric that matters its what the flag represents that matters the most.
This is what most of you cant understand you only look at it as if its something
bought from Spotlight at $3 a metre.

What does the flag represent?

Young men fought for our freedom

No they didn't.

, because of them we live free

No.

and as happy as we do today. Its this that everyone forgets, they gave
their lives, yet majority of us don't give two flying shits what they did
and what for.

I think everyone remembers WWI and WWII.

It also represents the ideals we take pride in as Australian's. Regardless
of it having a Union Jack, its what we symbolise as being "Australian".
It represents the beliefs that we Australian's about a fair go for all.

The flag doesn't represent the values we stand for. We, as a nation, do.

Its pathetic for people carrying out the act of burning the flag to
hide behind the "freedom of speech" clause

There's nothing pathetic about Freedom of Speech. If you think otherwise, you're a cocksucker.

, Its just a means to create
attention and have a way of getting out of it.

It's just a means to create attention! WOW, I didn't think they did it to do that!

The best thing would be to make it illegal, just to shut up all the ignorant,
idealistic fuckers.

Bravo, make yourself look like even more of a dickhead.

 

[funnybunny]

With all due respect Generator, a pile of shit can be complex. I mean, you can't exactly tell what's in it without complex, and ardous lab tests. And yes, it has a long, liquidy history too.
But, in all seriousness, I was only using the analogy to a pile of shit, just to make a point. If i have offended you in some way, i am sorry.

Young men fought for our freedom, because of them we live free
and as happy as we do today.

You talk about freedom, yet you want to restrict our freedom to burn the flag? Next time you post up a comment, like a few others, you should make sure your post makes sense rather than contradicts itself...idiot

Another example of your idiocy:

represents the beliefs that we Australian's about a fair go for all

then you go on to say

just to shut up all the ignorant,
idealistic fuckers.

Yes...a fair go for all, yet you want to shut up those who have different views from yours?....It is YOU who should have shut up..it is better to say nothing than say something and remove all doubt concerning your idiocy.

 

[Generator]

With all due respect Generator, a pile of shit can be complex. I mean, you can't exactly tell what's in it without complex, and ardous lab tests. And yes, it has a long, liquidy history too.
But, in all seriousness, I was only using the analogy to a pile of shit, just to make a point. If i have offended you in some way, i am sorry.

I said complexity of meaning, not the complexity of its physical composition. Please, stop trying to be clever.

As for the final bit, you didn't exactly cause offense, but your chosen analogy hardly makes any sort of valid point as far as I (and most others, I would gladly wager) am concerned.

 

[funnybunny]

I said complexity of meaning, not the complexity of its physical composition.

That was only a joke, but if you want to take it further: a pile of shit can have a complex meaning to it. If it's found in some thought-to-be uninhabited place, then it certainly means that the place is not habited anymore. The possiblity to excrete shows that we do not absorb everything we eat. It is simple folly to think that such small things do not have any meaning in our lives.

I don't see how the analogy between a pile of shit and the australian flag does not make a point. To you, it might be not "valid," but for those who think the aus flag doesn't represent anything (onlt the aus ppl's actions do) then it is valid indeed. Please don't accuse me of making invalid arguments if they do not agree with your stance or if they offend you.

 

[Generator]

There comes a point in time when it's best to just stop, funnybunny.

Ah, maybe your argument would make an ounce of sense if 'a pile of shit' actually stood for nothing as opposed to a somewhat disgusting object that should be avoided. That is why I consider your point as it's currently being presented to be invalid - the mere image of a pile of shit is far from being as meaningless as you now seem to suggest.

Edit: Change the object of comparison and I doubt that anyone would have reason to complain - the core point (i.e., that many consider the flag to be meaningless) is quite valid, but the imagery isn't up to scratch.

 

[malkin86]

Well..the whole issue of that artist shows that aussies are willing to defend freedom of expression when others are attacked, but when the attacks are directed at them, they simply cant hack it.

The whole flag-burning thing (in general and "Proudly UnAustralian") is about causing offense - if the artist is too provocative, then any extra 'message' other than 'Look at me desecrate a flag!' is lost to the viewer, because the viewer is too PO'ed to want to think about any other 'message'.

Something that I find more thoughtful and yet confronting is And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda - it criticises the ANZAC jingoism.

 

[ohdato]

Pol Pot,

You never heard of the attack on Darwin? The rolling invasion of the Japanese
through Indonesia and onto PNG? The mini sub that got into Sydney Harbour?

Yes our efforts in Europe with WWI was more to do with our relationship with
our mother country, thats another thread in its own...

Of course we create the values and ideals as Australian's ourselves.
But the flag is a symbol for the word Australia, with that people
will think about all the things we believe in and stand for.

If we didnt have a flag what would we have? Americans are bad enough thinking that every bloke and his missus are like Steve and Terry Irwin
wrestling crocs and being bitten by snakes all day long.

I have no problem with "Freedom of speech", but there are better ways of making yourself heard then burnign a flag that represents so much to a nation (dont believe me look at ALL the polls created after the ACA report).
I was also refering to people abusing that clause by using it everytime they
feel they need to be heard.

I'll take back my comment on them being "ignorant" etc.
It wasnt a smart move. But like I said there are better
ways of doing things, And in the end there are going to be
too many clashes between right and wrong

 

[funnybunny]

Ah, maybe your argument would make an ounce of sense if 'a pile of shit' actually stood for nothing as opposed to a somewhat disgusting object that should be avoided. That is why I consider your point as it's currently being presented to be invalid - the mere image of a pile of shit is far from being as meaningless as you now seem to suggest.

Ahh...well..i realised my folly after my first reply to your comment....But considering my talk about the pile of shit was simply me joking around, you shouldn't take this for real. I still believe (as many others would) that the analogy to a pile of shit is quite valid if you believe that the flag represents nothing and has no meaning. It is only people who think otherwise (i.e. you) that would claim my comment to be invalid.

Your comment :

Change the object of comparison and I doubt that anyone would have reason to complai

only makes it blatant that you simply dislike the comparison to a pile of shit, as it is simply "un-australian."

stood for nothing as opposed to a somewhat disgusting object that should be avoided

Of course not every analogy can be 100% true. In this case, my analogy was refering to the part about the aus flag standing for nothing (as i have said in my posts).

 

[aussiebogan]

"There comes a point in time when it's best to just stop, funnybunny" I think this is not in the true spirit of aussie posting. I have considered both argumetns, howefver it seems that you Generator have complained about funnybunny's posts, when no one else has, yet u continue to go on to say "doubt that anyone would have reason to complai" and then continue the thread into a differnet subject matter:comparisons. I do not blieve in funnbyunny's posts but in the th true aussie spirit, i belive that everyone should have a freedom of speech

Thankyou

 

[Generator]

Ahh...well..i realised my folly after my first reply to your comment....But considering my talk about the pile of shit was simply me joking around, you shouldn't take this for real. I still believe (as many others would) that the analogy to a pile of shit is quite valid if you believe that the flag represents nothing and has no meaning. It is only people who think otherwise (i.e. you) that would claim my comment to be invalid.

Your comment : only makes it blatant that you simply dislike the comparison to a pile of shit, as it is simply "un-australian."



Of course not every analogy can be 100% true. In this case, my analogy was refering to the part about the aus flag standing for nothing (as i have said in my posts).

I cannot recall saying that it was un-Australian, funnybunny.

I do dislike it because, as I said, I consider it to be incorrect. A pile of shit is hardly as meaningless as you seem to be suggesting, and that's my point - it's a loaded phrase with associated meanings that are quite negative. Change the item of comparison to, say, a piece of paper, and I would have no reason to criticise the notion that the flag is essentially meaningless if the individual considers it to be so.

Edit: Though I (and others) may not like it, feel free to liken the flag to a pile of crap if you wish to degrade it to such an extent, but please, just stop trying to argue that it is suggestive of nothingness. If you wish to continue with the argument, then I'm afraid that this is the point where I am going to bail.

 

[Salima]

NO one should be burning flags, this infact if we're talking about un- :mad1: anything, it would be un-muslim...because hte prohpet (pbuh) would not have done this. Same about the guns being fired. The boycotting though has reason.

 

[funnybunny]

Though I (and others) may not like it, feel free to liken the flag

I think you're quite right about the analogy to the pile of shit being a little too far-fetched. Therefore, i will continue with your suggestion that it can be likened to a piece of paper.

NO one should be burning flags

Yes, personally, i wouldn't burn the australian flag, but i believe that you should not ban the right to burn it either. However, i also believe that it is not right for some australians to hide behind the values of the flag (such as freedom, etc) and pretend it is a true portrayal of australia. It is only the australian ppl's actions which define this country, not its flag.

 

[ihavenothing]

NO one should be burning flags, this infact if we're talking about un- :mad1: anything, it would be un-muslim...because hte prohpet (pbuh) would not have done this. Same about the guns being fired. The boycotting though has reason.

So then it would be completely OK to have sex with nine year old girls just because the prophet did so?? Did the prophet ever do a shit or masturbate like the rest of us? Maybe Muslims are so angry that they can't masturbate, maybe you should go out and buy yourself a 9" strap on or one of those french ticklers (on the off chance if they didnt remove your clitoris).

 

[iranian rocket]

So then it would be completely OK to have sex with nine year old girls just because the prophet did so?? Did the prophet ever do a shit or masturbate like the rest of us? Maybe Muslims are so angry that they can't masturbate, maybe you should go out and buy yourself a 9" strap on or one of those french ticklers (on the off chance if they didnt remove your clitoris).

What the fuck is wrong with you? You want to talk about sexual pevertedness you might wanna take a good look at the Catholic church, and the way it treats its 10year old alterboys. At least Mohammad wasnt a faggot hypocrit, unlike his catholic counterparts who refuse to admit gays into their church yet sexually abuse young boys. I dont mean to paint all catholics with the same brush far from it im just over exaggerating a point. You want to look at all the bad things Christians have done and the list is endless, in the last 100 years alone you have Acts of genocide committed by Hitler's Germany against the Jews (a staunch Protestant state at the time) Acts of Genocide by Croatians against Bosnian Muslims. Acts of Genocide by Yugoslavia against Kosavar Muslims. the slaugher of Lebanese Muslims by Lebanese Christian Militias. You can nit pick at anything and find things that are wrong with it and injustices done by any one group. To criticise a 1400year old religion out of context is pure stupidity. if you dont think that morals and ethics have changed in over one thousand years you are an idiot.

On the point of freedom of speech the west can hardly take the moral high ground. why is it that questioning the extent of the halocaust is deemed anti-semetic and a crime against humanity and can land you in jail in 6Western countries, yet when someone ridicules a religion and disrespects it, it is allowed as an expression of free speech? Is this evidence of an great pillar of the western world or simply something that highlights the islamaphobia, double standards. and racism inherent in western countries?

(David Irving a revisionist Historian jailed for 10years in Austria for denying the extent of the halocaust in a speech in 1984, President of Iran condemned world wide for questioning the number of people who were killed)

 

[tWiStEdD]

Why burn the flag? because its controversial? because its cool?
This isn't even a worthwhile arguement. If you kids want to go burn your flags, go nuts. It'll mean nothing more than those make poverty history wristbands. Your $2 makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and like you've done something and then you go out and buy the new Simple Plan CD, James Blunt CD or just go nuts and maybe squeal with your mates about which boy/girl is most stylish or plain hawt and how you're going to get him/her.

The hypocracy in people really gets to me. If any of you really wanted to burn a flag you'd go out an do it. If you really disapproved but didnt want it criminalised you should be able to look down on those dancing around the flag doing some awesomely controversial testament to the i-hate-the-liberals groupies and let them go to sleep at night happy while you can go to sleep at night happy because you know you're better than that person.

Think about it.

maybe i wasn't clear earlier. You all spend so much time here debating whether or not someone at odds with you on the topic at hand spelt a certain word correctly or refered to something in the correct way. JESUS guys!

Have any of you burned a flag? or are you all just talk about it being right, wrong, illegal or legal? Do you think there's a reason to burn the Australian flag? Do we have it that bad here? I could point to a whole bunch of other countries and say "At least you don't live there!", and you know it. Australia is a great place to live, but mediocre when it comes to controversy. Sorry guys, this isn't even worth debating. You ALL lose.

In other news, I hope you're wearing your makepovertyhistory wristbands proudly (if not loudly!). Whats that? You can't hear me because James Blunt just started up again in the background? This is the 1000th time its run through? You've had it on repeat for weeks? My apologies, there's no way you're a victim of popular culture which promotes rampant (nigh on Catholic) guilt trips for anyone in such a lucky country. You're right. I'll just head out and buy my very own povertyband and wear my heart on my sleve just for the occasion.

It (flag burning) comes up in the media once and suddenly its the biggest thing since iPods! Instead of focusing on the event, how about intelligent discussion on why it happens and trying to come to terms with that? Oh yeah... that'd mean you'd be limited to about three threads... and we can't have you all getting bored now can we?

You make me sick.