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Citizenship - The Citizenship Testing Discussion Paper (1 Viewer)

Serius

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I dont think we should allow people in who hold values that directly clash with what our country stands for.

Thats right, iam talking about islam. There doesnt really seem to be degrees of islam, you are either a diehard fanatic that beleives in it all, or an infidel. Muslims support shariah law right? when a citizen enters our country they swear allegiance to it, and part of that is assumed a support of democracy and freedom.

How can an muslim swear allegiance to both shariah law and all other muslim ways that directly clash with democracy and freedom and then expect to be allowed into australia?

Do muslims even respect democracy? i think its clear they dont respect freedom, because muslims shit all over:
freedom of the press
freedom of speech
freedom to wear what you want [forced wearing of hijab]
freedom of religion

and heaps of muslim countries are dictatorships so iam going to say they have no respect for democracy.

so heres my rules for coming here
1.) like our country, respect our laws, our beleifs and our values of freedom and democracy
2.) dont be a religious fanatic that wants to blow shit up or knock on my door at 6am trying to convert me.
3.) know atleast a few basic things about us
4.) be proud of your new country.

Part of our country is being free to do what you want, but when certain ellements of society[ that are spreading] are abusing this freedom to undermine us, should we stand for this?
 

HotShot

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Serius said:
I dont think we should allow people in who hold values that directly clash with what our country stands for.

Thats right, iam talking about islam. There doesnt really seem to be degrees of islam, you are either a diehard fanatic that beleives in it all, or an infidel. Muslims support shariah law right? when a citizen enters our country they swear allegiance to it, and part of that is assumed a support of democracy and freedom.
/QUOTE]

That first paragraph shows ur lack of knowledge. islam like all religions have fanatics and they have moderate/ name-sake believers. The bulk of them are moderates, the rest are fake-believers and the minority are fanatics.

how many fanatics are in australia at present? hardly any? sheikh el taj dude is one - but he is fucken islamic priest so what do u expect from him? .
 

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If there were as many diehards as you say Serius, why aren't there millions of terrorist attacks everyday, considering there's 1 billion people who follow the Islam faith(I think or close to).
 

*Minka*

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I don't see the point on picking on Muslims when you get Fundie Christians who refuse to respect that Abortion is legal in Australia/USA/etc.
 

*Minka*

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Well it is a valid point - people from all sorts of religions disrespect laws.
 

Aryanbeauty

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Snaykew said:
If there were as many diehards as you say Serius, why aren't there millions of terrorist attacks everyday, considering there's 1 billion people who follow the Islam faith(I think or close to).
fear of retribution maybe, fear of justice, fear that they maybe held in guantanamo for the rest of their life and the success of intelligence network and police, and co-operation between various countries' intelligence and police.
 
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Ok Serius there are just a few problems with what you're saying:

1) You ask how Muslims can accept both Shariah Law and the laws of Democracy. Well, how can Christians accept both Biblica Law and Democracy? How can Jews accept the Torah aswell as a Democratic Constitution? One word: Tolerance

Shariah Law is primarily a legal framework for Muslim nations based on the principles laid out in the Qu'ran. It's main concerns are with acceptable behaviour for Muslims (including not consuming alcohol, being charitable etc.) and religious laws (praying five times a day, making the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in your lifetime etc.).
The whole point of Shariah Law is that it be adopted by an Islamic nation. While of course most Muslims will abide by the behavioural (both social and religious) aspects of Shariah Law, those that immigrate to other countries obviously accept that the legal aspects (amputation for thieves, flogging of adulterers and so on) of Shariah Law can not be followed. If this were not the case then we would either
a) not have any Muslim immigrants or
b) we would have Muslim immigrants protesting against Australia's treatment of criminals.
Since neither is the case i think its fair to say that Muslims are quite capable of immigrating to Australia without "blowing shit up" or "shitting all over freedom of speech."

It is this fact that indeed negates most of your criticisms of Islam - that they "shit on" freedom of the press, speech, force women to wear the hijab etc.
This is simply not the case. The very reason that many Muslims immigrate to Australia is often to ESCAPE the harshness of some nations imposition of Shariah Law. Muslim women in Australia are not forced to wear the hijab or indeed to comply with anything other than a reasonable standard of dress.

Minka also makes a very good point that it is not just Muslims who disrespect laws. Just the other day the Herald had an article about the growing evangelical movement in America and a movie made based on three young "Christian children" who were brought up to believe that science is evil, that the world was created 6,000 years ago and that Christians are engaged in an ongoing violent struggle for the hearts and minds of everyone in the world.

Serius your argument stinks of racism and ignorance, the two being closely linked. Muslim terrorists are a minority and indeed, regarded by most Muslims as not being Muslims at all, for they violate the Qu'ran's message of peace and love towards others.
All this nonsense about jihad is a misinterpretation of the Qu'ran - jihad refers to the defense of a Muslim city in the event of an attack by outside forces and violence is only ever to be used as a last resort to 'save the faith' it is this part that is often paraded by 'freedom fighters' as justification for terrorism. Terrorism, however, is in way a defensive activity, thus cannot be realistically justified under the Qu'ran in the same way that the creation of the Earth 6,000 years ago can not realistically be justified by the Bible.

I hope this at least makes some people think....
 
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Aryanbeauty said:
fear of retribution maybe, fear of justice, fear that they maybe held in guantanamo for the rest of their life and the success of intelligence network and police, and co-operation between various countries' intelligence and police.
1 billion muslims. Yeah I'm sure they are terrified of being held in guantanamo.
 
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Serius said:
so heres my rules for coming here
1.) like our country, respect our laws, our beleifs and our values of freedom and democracy
2.) dont be a religious fanatic that wants to blow shit up or knock on my door at 6am trying to convert me.
3.) know atleast a few basic things about us
4.) be proud of your new country.

Part of our country is being free to do what you want, but when certain ellements of society[ that are spreading] are abusing this freedom to undermine us, should we stand for this?
You are so right. Get those bloody J.W's out of here!!!
Them and the Mormons.
Crap. There's a girl at my school who's muslim, and I let her in my house!!! she was probably scouting it out, ready to blow me up!

And she doesn't wear a hijab so she probably went home to be beaten by all her brothers. Her mother doesn't wear a headscarf either. What a whore.

You know what, I was in my local church recently to go to a funeral and I saw a statue of this lady wearing a headscarf! I think it's part of a muslim plot to take over Australia. I think her name was Mary....
Kill Mary!!
 

Captain Gh3y

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The Brucemaster said:
Ok Serius there are just a few problems with what you're saying:

1) You ask how Muslims can accept both Shariah Law and the laws of Democracy. Well, how can Christians accept both Biblica Law and Democracy? How can Jews accept the Torah aswell as a Democratic Constitution? One word: Tolerance
They can't, they're religiously obliged to fight fo the institution of Sharia worldwide. There's no concept of tolerance, in the Western mutlicult sense, in the Muslim world.

The Brucemaster said:
Shariah Law is primarily a legal framework for Muslim nations based on the principles laid out in the Qu'ran. It's main concerns are with acceptable behaviour for Muslims (including not consuming alcohol, being charitable etc.) and religious laws (praying five times a day, making the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in your lifetime etc.).
It is, on the whole, actually about the forced institution and practise of a 7th century Arabic culture whose veneration is an integral part of Islam.


The Brucemaster said:
The whole point of Shariah Law is that it be adopted by an Islamic nation. While of course most Muslims will abide by the behavioural (both social and religious) aspects of Shariah Law, those that immigrate to other countries obviously accept that the legal aspects (amputation for thieves, flogging of adulterers and so on) of Shariah Law can not be followed. If this were not the case then we would either
a) not have any Muslim immigrants or
b) we would have Muslim immigrants protesting against Australia's treatment of criminals.
Of course they don't accept that Shariah Law cannot be followed. It's neither a nor b, it's just
c) We just don't have enough Muslim immigrants for them to do anything, yet. Europe, however, does;

The Brucemaster said:
Since neither is the case i think its fair to say that Muslims are quite capable of immigrating to Australia without "blowing shit up" or "shitting all over freedom of speech."
So why in Europe do we have censorship of anything that might offend Muslims, honor killings, Sharia Law practised in Muslim ghettoes, riots and seething over the cartoons and the Pope, murder of anyone who criticises Islam in the media (unless they go into hiding), unbelievably high rates of rape by Muslim immigrants of non-hijab wearing women in Sweden, etc. ?

The Brucemaster said:
It is this fact that indeed negates most of your criticisms of Islam - that they "shit on" freedom of the press, speech, force women to wear the hijab etc.
What fact negates these?

The Brucemaster said:
Serius your argument stinks of racism and ignorance, the two being closely linked.
:rolleyes:

Which race exactly?

The Brucemaster said:
Muslim terrorists are a minority and indeed, regarded by most Muslims as not being Muslims at all, for they violate the Qu'ran's message of peace and love towards others.
All this nonsense about jihad is a misinterpretation of the Qu'ran - jihad refers to the defense of a Muslim city in the event of an attack by outside forces and violence is only ever to be used as a last resort to 'save the faith' it is this part that is often paraded by 'freedom fighters' as justification for terrorism.
Where do you get this stuff from, CAIR? Do you actually believe it when Muslims engage in Taqiyya and carry on about 'religion of peace' and all that? Well,

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

Qur’an:8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

Qur’an:3:150 “Soon We shall strike terror into the hearts of the Infidels, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be in the Fire!”

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

Qur’an:4:76 “Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah.”

Qur’an:4:95 “Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward.”

Qur’an:2:216 “Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” [Another translation reads:] “Warfare is ordained for you.”

Qur’an:33:22 “Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme and have been martyred fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.”]

Qur’an:47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

Qur’an:8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”

Qur’an:8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

Qur’an:8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.”

Qur’an:8:60 “Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”

That's just the Quran, the hadiths are much more bloody, but I won't post any of them because then I'd have to put up with everyone saying the "strong hadiths" are only the ones that they want to be valid.

The Brucemaster said:
Terrorism, however, is in way a defensive activity, thus cannot be realistically justified under the Qu'ran in the same way that the creation of the Earth 6,000 years ago can not realistically be justified by the Bible.

I hope this at least makes some people think....
It makes me think you're really ignorant of current affairs and believe the official RoP party line at all times no matter how much evidence exists to the contrary.
 
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I know that most Christians believe that God is a good and loving god, and wants people to do good things. I believe that most people want to do good things and behave morally. I also believe that many Christians haven’t really read the Bible, or just read certain passages in church.

I really hate to do this, but if we are going to take quotes out of holy books to argue...well here are a few.

Firstly, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)


As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

Some of God's Murders for stupid reasons:


God kills rude boys.

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

God sponsored rape and the klling of babies.

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)


And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
is in heaven.
- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
- 2 Kings 2:11

Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
shall be in his house...

- Psalms 112:1-3

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

- Matthew 19:24

For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.

- James 2:24

Leave the Qu'ran alone.
 
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Captain Gh3y said:
Because attacking the holy books of either side is pointless...as I tried to show in my previous post...you can find utterly disgusting things in both books...
 
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I was going to make the same point.

Captain Ghey I would be interested for you to point out examples in European society about Muslims protesting against the lack of Shariah Law.
Obviously there have been demonstrations in response to perceived 'attacks' on Islam but to date I do believe that we have not seen Muslims in Europe protesting a lack of Shariah Law at all.

I love your ability to copy and past numerous quotes from the Qu'ran but they bear little relevance to Australian society seeing as Muslim terrorists make up an extreme minority of the worldwide Muslim population, if indeed they can be considered Muslims at all. Ask any orthodox Muslim and they will tell you that these kinds of people make them feel ashamed to be a Muslim at times.

However, seeing as we're on the subject of quoting the Qu'ran here's some food for thought:

(17:33) - "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..."

Just cause is defined by Muslim scholars (misconception 7) as someone who has comitted a crime against either Islam or a Muslim. There is a similar passage in the Bible (Deuteronomy perhaps?) about the same thing.
Thus according to the above Muslim scholars the killing of innocent people, such as occurs in terrorist attacks, as well as the killing of women and children, is decidedly against the teachings of Allah.
The author even suggests that a Muslim terrorist is an oxymoron because of the above.
Furthermore, the Sunnah also condemns those who kill 'protected' (no clarification of this is offered) non-Muslims:

"The Messenger of Allah said, 'One who kills a non-Muslim person under protection will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise."

Also, I made a slight typo in my original post - where I say "Terrorism, however, is in way a defensive activity... it should read "Terrorism, however, is in NO way a defensive activity...
This may clear up my supposed 'ignorance of current affairs'. Speaking of which I daresay that your supposed 'deep understanding of current affairs' is simply an uncritical acceptance of whatever the media presents and the formulation of inferences based on the 'solid facts' presented by the media."

Good day...
 
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The Brucemaster said:
I was going to make the same point.

Captain Ghey I would be interested for you to point out examples in European society about Muslims protesting against the lack of Shariah Law.
Obviously there have been demonstrations in response to perceived 'attacks' on Islam but to date I do believe that we have not seen Muslims in Europe protesting a lack of Shariah Law at all.

I love your ability to copy and past numerous quotes from the Qu'ran but they bear little relevance to Australian society seeing as Muslim terrorists make up an extreme minority of the worldwide Muslim population, if indeed they can be considered Muslims at all. Ask any orthodox Muslim and they will tell you that these kinds of people make them feel ashamed to be a Muslim at times.

However, seeing as we're on the subject of quoting the Qu'ran here's some food for thought:

(17:33) - "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..."

Just cause is defined by Muslim scholars (misconception 7) as someone who has comitted a crime against either Islam or a Muslim. There is a similar passage in the Bible (Deuteronomy perhaps?) about the same thing.
Thus according to the above Muslim scholars the killing of innocent people, such as occurs in terrorist attacks, as well as the killing of women and children, is decidedly against the teachings of Allah.
The author even suggests that a Muslim terrorist is an oxymoron because of the above.
Furthermore, the Sunnah also condemns those who kill 'protected' (no clarification of this is offered) non-Muslims:

"The Messenger of Allah said, 'One who kills a non-Muslim person under protection will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise."

Also, I made a slight typo in my original post - where I say "Terrorism, however, is in way a defensive activity... it should read "Terrorism, however, is in NO way a defensive activity...
This may clear up my supposed 'ignorance of current affairs'. Speaking of which I daresay that your supposed 'deep understanding of current affairs' is simply an uncritical acceptance of whatever the media presents and the formulation of inferences based on the 'solid facts' presented by the media."

Good day...
Exactly.
 

Captain Gh3y

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The Brucemaster said:
I was going to make the same point.

Captain Ghey I would be interested for you to point out examples in European society about Muslims protesting against the lack of Shariah Law.
Obviously there have been demonstrations in response to perceived 'attacks' on Islam but to date I do believe that we have not seen Muslims in Europe protesting a lack of Shariah Law at all.
They haven't "protested" it you dimwit. What do you think they're going to get out on the streets with signs asking for sharia law? No, clearly the institution of Sharia in Europe will come though intimidation, continuing concessions in the name of "tolerance" and demographic warfare. It's already happening.

The Brucemaster said:
I love your ability to copy and past numerous quotes from the Qu'ran but they bear little relevance to Australian society seeing as Muslim terrorists make up an extreme minority of the worldwide Muslim population, if indeed they can be considered Muslims at all. Ask any orthodox Muslim and they will tell you that these kinds of people make them feel ashamed to be a Muslim at times.
There's no such thing as an "orthodox muslim", you just made that up then. In the view of the 'real' Muslims, the so-called "moderates" are hypocrites and not true Muslims. So which ones are right? And does it matter? Really as long as the religion exists you're going to have both types. And although the ones blowing things up are an 'extreme minority' in number, their supporters and sympathisers would be more of an 'extreme majority'.


The Brucemaster said:
However, seeing as we're on the subject of quoting the Qu'ran here's some food for thought:

(17:33) - "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..."

Just cause is defined by Muslim scholars (misconception 7) as someone who has comitted a crime against either Islam or a Muslim. There is a similar passage in the Bible (Deuteronomy perhaps?) about the same thing.
Thus according to the above Muslim scholars the killing of innocent people, such as occurs in terrorist attacks, as well as the killing of women and children, is decidedly against the teachings of Allah.
The author even suggests that a Muslim terrorist is an oxymoron because of the above.
Furthermore, the Sunnah also condemns those who kill 'protected' (no clarification of this is offered) non-Muslims:

"The Messenger of Allah said, 'One who kills a non-Muslim person under protection will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise."
As far as they're concerned, we're committing a crime by being alive. And, if we were on the subject of quoting the quran, you managed to ignore every single quote I gave. It is, as far as the RoPers are concerned, the unchangeable word of Allah.

Also, I made a slight typo in my original post - where I say "Terrorism, however, is in way a defensive activity... it should read "Terrorism, however, is in NO way a defensive activity...
This may clear up my supposed 'ignorance of current affairs'. Speaking of which I daresay that your supposed 'deep understanding of current affairs' is simply an uncritical acceptance of whatever the media presents and the formulation of inferences based on the 'solid facts' presented by the media."

Good day...
It doesn't really clear up anything, and throwing in the usual media comment couldn't be more wrong. The mainstream media are mostly sympathetic to the argument you're making here.
 

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Okay so going back to the main discussion.

I think there needs to be a basic level of English and an intention to keep improving. If you don't learn English you're basically shooting yourself in the foot in terms of being able to get a good job or even getting a drivers licence.

I know that my Great Grandfather who came to Australia in the late 1940s never learnt English except for few very basic things. I mean he was okay but things became extremely difficult as he got older in terms of the time he spent in hospital with the hospital having to call my grandmother or mother to translate because they couldn't understand what he was feeling. And I though also for me it was sad because I never really got to know him well because we didn't speak the same language.

Without learning English there continues to be a segregation. Yes cultural ties are important but one of the most interesting things about this country is the variety of people who are here and you're missing out if you don't interact with everyone.
 
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daledugahole said:
Okay so going back to the main discussion.

I think there needs to be a basic level of English and an intention to keep improving. If you don't learn English you're basically shooting yourself in the foot in terms of being able to get a good job or even getting a drivers licence.

I know that my Great Grandfather who came to Australia in the late 1940s never learnt English except for few very basic things. I mean he was okay but things became extremely difficult as he got older in terms of the time he spent in hospital with the hospital having to call my grandmother or mother to translate because they couldn't understand what he was feeling. And I though also for me it was sad because I never really got to know him well because we didn't speak the same language.

Without learning English there continues to be a segregation. Yes cultural ties are important but one of the most interesting things about this country is the variety of people who are here and you're missing out if you don't interact with everyone.
I think this is a good point, although I don't think you should be excluded from the country because you don't understand English because often there is not an opportunity for people to learn.
I do, however, support compulsory language programs once immigrants have arrived as it is obviously a major hindrance if entering the workforce and interacting on a daily basis.


As for you Captain Ghey, there are a few problems with what you are saying:

First of all, in regards to Shariah Law you seem to believe that European governments will willingly acquiesce to Muslim concerns until Shariah Law is implemented.:

No, clearly the institution of Sharia in Europe will come though intimidation, continuing concessions in the name of "tolerance" and demographic warfare.

This is the most bullshit thing I have ever heard. Name me one example from history where a government has willingly altered its constitution due to the pressure from a minority group.
Furthermore, what is demographic warfare exactly?

As for orthodox Muslims you are mistaken. The word orthodox refers to a commonly accepted view, usually in regards to religious belief and seeing as we both acknowledge the fact that 'Muslim' terrorists are an extreme minority it follows logically that moderate Muslims are in the majority.
Thus, seeing as they share a commonly accepted view they can be described as orthodox.

As far as they're concerned, we're committing a crime by being alive.
Yes, as far as the extreme minority are concerned this is the case but an extreme minority of Christians seem to believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago and allegedly this can be proven by the Bible.

Does this make it acceptable? I think not.

It doesn't really clear up anything, and throwing in the usual media comment couldn't be more wrong. The mainstream media are mostly sympathetic to the argument you're making here.
Well in that case I would be fascinated to see where you have got your information from...
 

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