Does God exist? (16 Viewers)

[Enteebee]

Yeh, the KJV was intentionally translated to reflect the beliefs of the puritans of the Church of England. Shit, at least Roman Catholics have been using the same scriptures since the Holy Roman Empire.

Well the same words, but of course there has been 'revisions' on the meanings of these words by every single papal congregation since the church began.

 

[katie tully]

i go away for lunch and the thread expands further by 5 pages

 

[*TRUE*]

exactly. its bomb shelta

You are saying that God made himself a bomb shelter or someone has purposely deceived me ( and billions of others)

 

[KFunk]

Yeah, 3unitz, I'm glad you noted that in the passage that *true* quoted. To bring out the relevant part:

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. Where is the wise man, where is the scholar, where is the philosopher of this age?

Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world, for since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him

My naive reading is as follows: god somehow transcends our worldly means of seeking knowledge and wisdom and thus, if we are to know god, we must cast aside our usual rational methods and somehow see the truth (through jesus/faith/gospels or some such).

This really exemplifies the kind of anti-rationality clauses that are scattered through religious texts. The passage seems to draw a line in the sand. On on side you stand amidst the methods of logic and empirical method (or, at least, of some critical form of theory), and on the other is unreasoned, seeing acceptance.

What really bothers me is that there are many things, an infinite number in fact, which could simply be accepted through faith. And yet you are highly selective about what you choose. To me this implies that either you are being determined by cultural forces or you are using some kind of decision procedure, i.e. some kind of reasoned decision is taking place. Thus you are either passive recipients of cultural beliefs, which would really undermine your position I feel, or you are making use of some thus far undescribed decision procedure which gets cloaked in terms like 'faith' and 'transcendental perception'. There seems to be dishonesty in the air: reason cannot lead to god, and yet it must be used in some fashion in order to exclude other possible faith-based claims.

 

[want2bdifferent]

See scientific justification is on-going and peer reviewed and has been tested again and again as knowledge has being furthered. Saying: "I believe in God because the bible says so and I believe the bible to be true because God says so." is just ridiculous and unworkable position. Why don't you follow the Koran, Torah or Shruti? They all say that they are the word of god and you should believe in them because god says so.

Edit: Basically you can't compare the bible to scientific knowledge.

Ok I dont think you understand why we believe what we do unless you are a christian, or have some sort of religious belief.

 

[Serius]

"you arent a christian so you arent allowed to question our ways"

 

[want2bdifferent]

Inasero. If we believe in God , we ARE GOING TO LOOK FOOLISH.

although we are the wise ones really
The people the world classifies as Wise are actually the foolish ones for they no not God.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Ok I dont think you understand why we believe what we do unless you are a christian, or have some sort of religious belief.

we have more or less the same sort of thoughts & emotions so why couldn't we understand?

 

[want2bdifferent]

"you arent a christian so you arent allowed to question our ways"

That is not what i was saying, it is hard to explain why I am a christian and not say a muslim, I dont think you would understand unless you were a christian, and actually believe it.

 

[want2bdifferent]

we have more or less the same sort of thoughts & emotions so why couldn't we understand?

Its not something that you can explain, I think it is because your heart is hard. I dont know exactly why i believe it, i just do

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Its not something that you can explain, I think it is because your heart is hard. I dont know exactly why i believe it, i just do

This is what I don't get. How can you believe so faithfully without understanding why? Does that not bother you at all? At least non believers know why they don't believe.

 

[want2bdifferent]

This is what I don't get. How can you believe so faithfully without understanding why? Does that not bother you at all? At least non believers know why they don't believe.

Think of it this way a small child just believes in God (well all the ones i have worked with) not a doubt in there mind that it is true, they don't need a reason to believe this they just do, It is the same with me i dont need a reason to believe it i just do.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Think of it this way a small child just believes in God (well all the ones i have worked with) not a doubt in there mind that it is true, they don't need a reason to believe this they just do, It is the same with me i dont need a reason to believe it i just do.

So you're saying you've got the mindset of a three year old?

Children believe things at face value because they haven't got the means or cognitive ability to explore alternatives and question things properly. Saying your belief is on the same level just removed about a million credibility points from your argument, and you didn't have many to start with.

 

[*TRUE*]

although we are the wise ones really
The people the world classifies as Wise are actually the foolish ones for they no not God.

I fully respect the intellect of the majority of atheist/agnostic people on here.
Especially Kfunk.
But it seems that God has not allowed us to justify his existance using our own rationality and worldly logic.
Bible says you must come as a little child....
It is utter foolishness and absurdity to those who would use human understanding.

 

[tommykins]

although we are the wise ones really
The people the world classifies as Wise are actually the foolish ones for they no not God.

Lol. Lol. Lol.

Lol?

 

[want2bdifferent]

So you're saying you've got the mindset of a three year old?

Children believe things at face value because they haven't got the means or cognitive ability to explore alternatives and question things properly. Saying your belief is on the same level just removed about a million credibility points from your argument, and you didn't have many to start with.

I do not mean that i have the mindset of a three year old. I was simply trying to explain the just believe thing. I found that as a simple way of describing it.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I do not mean that i have the mindset of a three year old. I was simply trying to explain the just believe thing. I found that as a simple way of describing it.

Okay fair enough description but you can see my problem. You're saying you don't need a reason to believe. If this is true, there must be a reason why you don't need a reason, and a reason for that and a reason for that.

Everything has a reason, at some point. Even faith based belief.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Its not something that you can explain, I think it is because your heart is hard. I dont know exactly why i believe it, i just do

well you couldn't possibly expect anyone who wasn't born christian to convert then

==> whether you're saved or not depends entirely on what family you were born into

 

[*TRUE*]

well you couldn't possibly expect anyone who wasn't born christian to convert then

==> whether you're saved or not depends entirely on what family you were born into

LOL You dont really believe that do you?
What about British Christians who convert to Islam??? Doesnt depend on family entirely at all.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

maybe the muslims can explain why they believe islam, lol