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Does God exist? (18 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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crazyhomo

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genavania said:
christians lives are not wasted. you only have to look around you to see the ammount of good christian people aer doing. Associations such as world vision and CCF are run by christian people to better the lives of those less fortunate.

Christian people trying to live up to Jesus commandment love your neighbour live their lives for others doing good. When u got Jesus in your soul you cant help living your life like this. certainly not a waste.
fuck off and die. seriously. you sicken me

hey everybody! look at me! i'm making shit up in order to spiritually blackmail people into believing lies and living their lives in ignorance and fear! i'm going to force the poor into believing my lies otherwise i will let them starve to death! i'm a fucking christian!

you're all morally bankrupt hypocrites, and i'm sick of hearing you all talk shit
 
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pkc

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genavania said:
You only have to look around you to see the ammount of good christian people aer doing....Christian people trying to live up to Jesus commandment love your neighbour live their lives for others doing good. When u got Jesus in your soul you cant help living your life like this. quote]

Sure, so if christianity had a greater influence on people then people would be much more loving right?

Nice thought.

This is not actually the way Helen Ellerbe describes the time when church influence on the world reached its peak.

"By far the cruelest aspect of the inquisitional system was the means by which confessions were wrought: the torture chamber. Torture remained a legal option for the Church from 1252 when it was sanctioned by Pope Innocent IV until 1917 when the new Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect. . . . Thus, with license granted by the Pope himself, inquisitors were free to explore the depths of horror and cruelty. . . . The Inquisition invented every conceivable device to inflict pain by slowly dismembering and dislocating the body. Many of these devices were inscribed with the motto 'Glory be only to God.'"
Helen Ellerbe
 

Captain Gh3y

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crazyhomo said:
fuck off and die. seriously. you sicken me

hey everybody! look at me! i'm making shit up in order to spiritually blackmail people into believing lies and living their lives in ignorance and fear! i'm going to force the poor into believing my lies otherwise i will let them starve to death! i'm a fucking [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa]christian[/url]!

you're all morally bankrupt hypocrites, and i'm sick of hearing you all talk shit
LOL

Find me a Biblical passage that says "Go from Europe to the Holy Land and kill Muslims" or "Establish a Church whose clergy shall sexually abuse children and hide it" and I'll renounce my belief straight away.

That's about as valid as saying that Stalin and Mao were atheists, therefore atheists will do what they did.

Same for the above.
 

crazyhomo

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Captain Gh3y said:
Find me a Biblical passage that says "Go from Europe to the Holy Land and kill Muslims" or "Establish a Church whose clergy shall sexually abuse children and hide it" and I'll renounce my belief straight away.
so you need a passage from the bible to specifically tell you not to do this shit?

you're a fucking tool
 

davin

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That's about as valid as saying that Stalin and Mao were atheists, therefore atheists will do what they did.
yeah, right, the church of atheism. atheism is not a school of thought the same way that a religion is.
 

pkc

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I think McKinsey describes the whole silliness of the bible pretty well:


"If you really delve into the Bible you will see that it is a maze, a mass, a veritable labyrinth of contradictions, inconsistencies, inaccuracies, poor mathematics, bad science, erroneous geography, false prophecies, immoral comments, degenerate heroes, and a multitude of other problems too numerous to mention. It may be somebody's word but it certainly isn't the product of a perfect, divine being. The Bible has more holes in it than a backdoor screen. "

- C. Dennis McKinsey
 

Captain Gh3y

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davin said:
yeah, right, the church of atheism. atheism is not a school of thought the same way that a religion is.
ffs didn't you read my post?

crazyhomo said:
so you need a passage from the bible to specifically tell you not to do this shit?

you're a fucking tool
ffs didn't you read my post?

Between the two of you you managed to contradict each other, too.

What's the point of discussing something if you don't read what I say?
 
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pkc

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Then again..... Homer might have put it best:


"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, its' that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such."

"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to GIRLS sports, such as hot
oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such."
"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to GIRLS sports, such as hot
oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such."
"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to GIRLS sports, such as hot
oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such."
Homer Simpson
 

davin

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Captain Gh3y said:
ffs didn't you read my post?



ffs didn't you read my post?

Between the two of you you managed to contradict each other, too.

What's the point of discussing something if you don't read what I say?
i'll admit i skimmed too fast, so i didn't address stuff quite right. i'll agree with the first part, but you still can't make the analogy of what one athiest does to what another would, even to disprove the example, because they're still not part of the same group. its not being followers of a specific text or members of a specific group as with religions.
 

pkc

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"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots.
This is one nation under God. "

[George Bush, President of the United States in response to a reporters question]
:burn:
 

pkc

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"There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world. How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy moneychangers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?"
Rev Pat Robertson, 1991.


Gee........religion just keeps bringing out the nice side in people.:)
 

Captain Gh3y

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One could also say that since I am a Protestant and all of the above attrocities were commited by the Catholic Church they haven't anything to do with me either.

Anyway, to re-state the above point, when someone acts in a manner contrary to the teachings or rules of a group or organisation that they claim to belong to, you can't blaim the organisation's teachings for their actions.

Clearly any sane human being would not approve of the Inquisition or the Crusades, though in the case of the Crusades you're applying today's standards to an entirely different world where warfare was commonplace.

I pointed out first that the main source of Christian teaching, the Bible, doesn't say anything about Crusades or Inquisitions. It's quite true that I don't need it not to engage in Crusades or Inquisitions, because it doesn't mention them! Even if it did not say, "Thou shall not kill" I would not kill someone, either.

You correctly point out that Atheism is different again in that it isn't any ideology or set of beliefs or values other than the non-existence of any gods. So the two genocidal atheists I mentioned don't have anything in common with yourselves.

To use another, non-religious example, if a member of the Liberal party commits murder, are Liberals pro-murder? (don't start) Clearly secular law states that murder is illegal. That person is going against established laws. If such a thing happened, clearly other members of the Liberal party would condemn his actions as loudly, or even more loudly than other people.

Further, in both the time of the Crusades and the early stages of the Inquisition (13th century), it's true that the Catholic Church had almost absolute political power in Europe and could cause or allow these events to happen.

One aspect of Christianity that is fortunate for the world (considering there are over 2 billion Christians) is its ability to reform; now I could copy+paste the entire history of the Protestant movement, reformation and subsequent Enlightenment age, but you probably already know about it.

There is no way an Inquisition or Crusade could occur today, or ever again in the forseeable future. Unforunately we still have a tiny minority of fanatics such as Abortion clinic bombers. I know parts of the USA have problems with lack of church/state separation. But compare our progress to say, Islam in the Middle East and... no comment.

----

That quote: You should mention it was George HW Bush who said it. I'd also like to see what context it was said in, but Google can only find atheist sites using it alone with no context given. Examples of discrimination against atheists in the constitution would be even better.
 

davin

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alright, I'll give you the Protestant/Catholic difference, since I'd figure that generally fair.

The issue is, though, whether or not the group does condemn it or not. Things like the Crusades or Inquisition, or the witch hunts, werent' criticised by all that many at the time.

And I would say, I don't believe Christianity to be pulling anything like it did in the middle ages again. Other religions...i can see it happening.....but christianity is going in a positive direction at this point, imo. nuts aside.
 

pkc

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Captain Gh3y said:
One aspect of Christianity that is fortunate for the world (considering there are over 2 billion Christians) is its ability to reform.
mmm, it could also be said...

One aspect of the christian church is to not admit its unfounded views or crimes or change its teachings until it is utterly forced to do so by public shame, overwhelming scientific proof or falling church numbers.

eg. Pope John Paul's admission in 1990s to error in Galileo's life imprisonment 300 years before.
 

pkc

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"I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, and the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough - I call it the one immortal blemish on the human race."

[Friedrich Nietzsche]:eek:
 
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webby234 said:
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18

Isn't that justification for the inquisition? Basically saying if you think someone is a witch you must kill them.
Yes theoretically but Captan Gh3y has already dealt rather effectively with the Crusade argument, it happened in the (relatively) distant past in a totally different historical context with totally different spiritual/moral values.
 
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genavania

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pkc said:
mmm, it could also be said...

One aspect of the christian church is to not admit its unfounded views or crimes or change its teachings until it is utterly forced to do so by public shame, overwhelming scientific proof or falling church numbers.

eg. Pope John Paul's admission in 1990s to error in Galileo's life imprisonment 300 years before.
ok if this is your point then you need to work out what you mean by religion. What God / jesus had said in the bible or the way people interpret it. Christianity is not just a church and how many people go to it. nor is it the pope or anything to do with formal religious activity although these things are important to many peoples christianity.

as to the pope and Galileio. different times produce different outcomes. Joan of Arc was killed as a witch before people knew who she was, galileio was sent to gaol and Jesus was killed.
we all do things that we realise are wrong in hindsight. Call it human error but dont blame God.

and crazyhomo if you arent going to read the threads please try not to be so rude. :)
 
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genavania

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webby234 said:
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18

Isn't that justification for the inquisition? Basically saying if you think someone is a witch you must kill them.
this brings back the whole OT NT thing. When Jesus came he kinda took all the old rules away and replaced it with a love God rule. sure it is so true many people have taken the OT rules and twisted them to suit. they have even done that with the NT but thats a whole nother kettle of fish.
but yeah like Captain Gh3y says: context, values.
 

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