Does God exist? (23 Viewers)

[advanced sam]

If there is no real wrong (no need for salvation , which is the basis of Christianity), there is no real right , all is relative , all depends on the individual , we can be gods to ourselves...no need for true God.

huh? you were talking about satan is evil, god real ... and yet there is now no real wrong

 

[*TRUE*]

huh? you were talking about satan is evil, god real ... and yet there is now no real wrong

Nooooooo.
I was saying if Satan can convince us there is no real wrong ( by convincing people he doesnt exist)...
Sorry i assumed youd remember where we were up to.

 

[*TRUE*]

I'm sure people have noticed a common theme here:

(1) The skeptic asks 'but why isn't there evidence in favour of the existence of this supernatural being?'

(2) The believer replies 'because it is in the nature of the supernatural being to obfuscate and make it so that their existence is never certain' (e.g. trickery on the part of satan, or faith-generation on the part of god)

I seem to remember Daniel Dennett pointing out that this is similar to the structure of the conspiracy theory, which often proves quite resilient because any attempt to deny the conspiracy is simply part of the conspiracy. These cultural memes are thus actively resistant to refutation, which is perhaps a large part of why they can be considered to fly in the face of scientific method. No wonder they persist.

thanks alot Kfunk. Im like a virus that stubbornly wont go away.

 

[advanced sam]

Sorry i assumed youd remember where we were up to.

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, no need to be nasty

 

[Captain Gh3y]

we don't really need God to have right and wrong though do we? I mean you can say it until you're blue in the face but it's not really true, our laws don't come from god, our feeling of right & wrong doesn't come from god, it's entirely human

most people work it out for themselves or amongst each other, there's even common themes among all cultures thru history once u remove dumb things like not eating shelfish or sodomy laws

unless you want to get philosophical it's really pretty simple, that's why we have man-made laws that pretty much the whole population (even the dumb ones) understand

talking in absolutes is mostly useless in any practical sense anyway... maybe there are circumstances where killing someone can be justified but we don't look to the bible to decide if that's the case anyway

 

[*TRUE*]

we don't really need God to have right and wrong though do we? I mean you can say it until you're blue in the face but it's not really true, our laws don't come from god, our feeling of right & wrong doesn't come from god, it's entirely human

most people work it out for themselves or amongst each other, there's even common themes among all cultures thru history once u remove dumb things like not eating shelfish or sodomy laws

unless you want to get philosophical it's really pretty simple, that's why we have man-made laws that pretty much the whole population (even the dumb ones) understand

talking in absolutes is mostly useless in any practical sense anyway... maybe there are circumstances where killing someone can be justified but we don't look to the bible to decide if that's the case anyway

Yes , see , most people work it out themselves etc.
advanced Sam i direct your attention to this post to see how Satan is able to draw people away from God by convincing them he does not exist , and nor do absolute right or absolute wrong.
Captain whomever ( i wish ud post your name) i know what you mean , my head gets me the same place as you.(Almost anyway)

 

[*TRUE*]

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, no need to be nasty

Im so sorry , if you knew me more , you'd know im not like that , i WAS apologising, lol.
Sorry

 

[Enteebee]

would it be any different if this God were impersonal and didn't intervene in our affairs?

It would be logically possible.

as for why doesn't God give a proof that He exists, that's simply not true the Bible makes it clear that God's invisible qualities have clearly been seen. Do you ever look up in the sky at night (lol I know it sounds wack) and wonder how it came into existence? Haven't you ever thought theres got to be some meaning, some reason for it all?

Have you missed the past few pages of the thread? There are some pretty good naturalistic explanations as to how we came into the existence we now know. As for that being proof for your god, well it's no more proof for your god than the flying spaghetti monster... so I wouldn't be forwarding it as proof if I were you.

I think Jesus makes it pretty clear that he's not about giving signs to prove himself...

Good for him?

that is what faith is believing what you can not see.

I believe in plenty of things I cannot see, I have reasons for doing so though usually and these reasons conform with my routine basic logical practices. I.e. If I lose my car keys I will presume there is some rational explanation, I won't say "fairies must have taken them". So there is more to faith than simply believing, I can ask you 'why' you have faith in X and not Y, there is some sort of logic/rationality there... it might be bad but it's not devoid of it.

 

[want2bdifferent]

Hold on.

Did you just say 'make me', and then call me childish and immature?

That's not very Christian of you.

lol you took the childish and immature thing seriously... i was joking, i am childish and immature, it is lots more fun. lol.

 

[*TRUE*]

lol you took the childish and immature thing seriously... i was joking, i am childish and immature, it is lots more fun. lol.

I love your avatar

 

[want2bdifferent]

so do u think the demons Jesus exorcised in the gospels were real or just something else that they thought were demons in those times?

i reckon they'd still be pretty scary today if they were real

i believe they were. there is still people been possessed today, I know one of my very close friends have seen people possesed, like floating in the air outside, nothing attached and stuff like that overseas, and the very strong christians there believe them to be possessed by a demon, they have also been cast out of other people overseas, I consider them to be real and not just other things happening.

 

[Enteebee]

i believe they were. there is still people been possessed today, I know one of my very close friends have seen people possesed, like floating in the air outside, nothing attached and stuff like that overseas, and the very strong christians there believe them to be possessed by a demon, they have also been cast out of other people overseas, I consider them to be real and not just other things happening.

Your friend is either a) delusional b) lying c) mistaken. As for seeing people floating in general, do you know how many people believe they have seen cris angel levitate? Show me one documented, scientific case of a demonic possession... not just hearsay, if we went by that then surely UFO's exist too.

 

[want2bdifferent]

Your friend is either a) delusional b) lying c) mistaken. As for seeing people floating in general, do you know how many people believe they have seen cris angel levitate? Show me one documented, scientific case of a demonic possession... not just hearsay, if we went by that then surely UFO's exist too.

not just her they were in a huge group on a missions trip, do you not believe that that sort of thing can happen?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

not just her they were in a huge group on a missions trip, do you not believe that that sort of thing can happen?

You can't conclusively say someone was possessed until you have ruled out all other alternative explanations. And to rule them out the person has to be medically and psychologically evaluated, which these people hardly ever are, they just claim to have been posessed without any proof.

Edit: also, examination of a claim like this usually uncovers some kind of mental or physical condition that explains the "possession" of the person, thus effectively debunking the idea that the cause had to be spiritual.

 

[*TRUE*]

You can't conclusively say someone was possessed until you have ruled out all other alternative explanations. And to rule them out the person has to be medically and psychologically evaluated, which these people hardly ever are, they just claim to have been posessed without any proof.

Edit: also, examination of a claim like this usually uncovers some kind of mental or physical condition that explains the "possession" of the person, thus effectively debunking the idea that the cause had to be spiritual.

This is REALLY touchy ( i have a very dear friend with a mental illness) but i have actually heard some people say there are spiritual connections with some mental illnesses. ( i dont know which....)
I dont know if its true or not.

 

[want2bdifferent]

You can't conclusively say someone was possessed until you have ruled out all other alternative explanations. And to rule them out the person has to be medically and psychologically evaluated, which these people hardly ever are, they just claim to have been posessed without any proof.

Edit: also, examination of a claim like this usually uncovers some kind of mental or physical condition that explains the "possession" of the person, thus effectively debunking the idea that the cause had to be spiritual.

even if someone tries to cast it out and then the symptoms stop? I think it is very real. I am not saying however that all cases like this are possesions or anything like that, I think that they do happen though.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

This is REALLY touchy ( i have a very dear friend with a mental illness) but i have actually heard some people say there are spiritual connections with some mental illnesses. ( i dont know which....)
I dont know if its true or not.

I'd want to be really certain of what I was talking about before I said yes or no to that particular idea, so...I don't know. Maybe. Depends what we mean by spiritual, and whether there's a way to detect that something spiritual is going on and not just a chemical imbalance or suchlike.

Could you clarify what you mean by spiritual connection, actually? It's an interesting concept, I'm just not sure if I'm thinking of the same thing you are.

 

[*TRUE*]

I'd want to be really certain of what I was talking about before I said yes or no to that particular idea, so...I don't know. Maybe. Depends what we mean by spiritual, and whether there's a way to detect that something spiritual is going on and not just a chemical imbalance or suchlike.

Could you clarify what you mean by spiritual connection, actually? It's an interesting concept, I'm just not sure if I'm thinking of the same thing you are.

I don't really think i should say anything about it actually , because they weren't my thoughts but someone elses'...
I don't want to say something stupid.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

even if someone tries to cast it out and then the symptoms stop? I think it is very real. I am not saying however that all cases like this are possesions or anything like that, I think that they do happen though.

"Cast out"? Moar details plz.

A lot of these so called possessions fit the pattern of medically explainable psychotic episodes quite neatly, so you can't say it must be that they are possessed by spirits, is all I'm saying.

Every exorcism I've ever seen (I've only ever seen them on TV, but hey, people take it seriously) looks extremely stage managed and manipulated to get you to think that miracles are being performed when really, people are just being worked into a frenzy by a charismatic leader, which I find pretty, well, disturbing, tbh.

 

[webby234]

even if someone tries to cast it out and then the symptoms stop? I think it is very real. I am not saying however that all cases like this are possesions or anything like that, I think that they do happen though.

That's probably a placebo effect. They believed they were possessed, and they believed that the ritual would heal them, so the belief that they were possessed disappeared.

After attending fifty exorcisms, Cuneo is unequivocal about the fact that he saw nothing supernatural--and certainly nothing remotely resembling the events depicted in the 1974 blockbuster film The Exorcist. No spinning heads, levitation, or poltergeists were seen, though many involved some cursing, spitting, or vomiting. As far as science is concerned, possession is a mental health issue.