Going to a selective school (3 Viewers)

[twiddla]

Coming from a selective school myself I believe that selective schools provide one of the best educations on offer. However in saying that they serve a purpose and it is pointless putting someone who does not excel academically into one - it is just the wrong environment. There are a lot of ordinairy high schools that do a wonderful job of providing for those who don't fit into the academically gifted catergory.

In terms of moving from a non selective state school to a selective state school those who make the transition usually excel - the reason being that they see themselves as needing to prove that their choice was valid and many have developed a work ethic in order to get into the selective school that is very high and continue with that through their years at the selective school . It is in fact alot harder to get in after year 7.

 

[.::icemeLon::.]

Even though I can BARELY understand all that netspeak (is it really necessary?!?!) I must agree.

sorry!
i'm just used to it.. and it is faster to type that way ^-^

 

[blackfriday]

phanatical: thats real rough on your bro there cos the principal at his school is a dickhead. he should've acted in the best interest of the student and not push his own agenda.

but with that said, i really dont like the idea of changing schools between 10 and 11 because by then you've established a pattern and you have really good friends by that time. its probably more important to have good mates with you than going to a better school.

 

[InfiniteQ]

but with that said, i really dont like the idea of changing schools between 10 and 11 because by then you've established a pattern and you have really good friends by that time. its probably more important to have good mates with you than going to a better school.

That's not logical. Your friends won't help you perform at your best, a better school might. I changed schools from 10 to 11, not to a "better" one (I moved houses, that was my main reason). People come & go out of your life... if they really are good friends then you will be sure to keep in touch with them.

 

[Amryllis]

I changed schools from year 10 to 11 too.. From a non-selective school to a selective school. It wasn't as hard as I expected coz people were heaps more friendly at my new school. Although I did feel like I had something to prove since I was new.

I never felt like I fit in at the previous school so it was a good change for me =) It gave me a huge reality check - there are heaps of people smarter than you no matter how well you did at a non-selective school. It took a lot of hard work to keep up the pace and catch up on all the years that I slacked off coz I was already at the top without putting that much effort in (relatively speaking... I really could have done a lot better).

I have to agree that selective schools do provide a better education in general. Although there are many teachers who are less than great... You get them in any school. Shortage of teachers - can't do much about getting better ones...

 

[Bambul]

James Ruse is NOT a good school, because the people who come out of it are stuck-up, self-righteous pricks who fit better with the Private school system than with the other public schools. No offense, but I know people who have left James Ruse FOR Girraween for this exact reason.

I can assure you that *a lot* more people have left Giraween for James Ruse than the other way round. Whoever leaves James Ruse to go to Giraween is obviously doing it because they don't like Ruse. This ignores the opinions of the remaining 99.5% of the students at Ruse (assuming you get 1-2 people leaving each year). This leads to a biased sample and skewed results (thats statistics talk for: it's the exception rather than the rule).

I went to Ruse for 6 years and I would certainly not have given up my spot to go to another high school. About 5 people from my grade left the school over 6 years (one was because of drugs - his parents thought some of his school friends were a bad influence, another went to Baulko because VA wasn't offered in year 11/12 for our year - it was the only year it wasn't offered). The remaining 97% remained until year 12. That's a pretty high retention rate whatever the measure.

If your post had been a bit more moderate then I would have accepted most of it. I question whether you know "people" who actually left James Ruse for Giraween, or just a single person and are trying to exagerate your case out of some sort of hatred for James Ruse.

 

[Phanatical]

Admittedly, the number isn't very high (greater than one, but not by many), and one of these was in fact somebody who transferred Back to Girraween after transferring to Ruse.

However, my point still stands. Schools like James Ruse, which receive a lot more public funding than other schools equally deserving, provide greater resources for its students than are available at any other public school, and instills in its students that they are better than the rest of us. They're not.

The fact that schools like Girraween have to use the thrown-out resources of schools like Baulko and Ruse, goes to show the skewed priorities of the DET, and I am vehemently opposed to the elitist mentality being touted by the "pride of the public school system".

 

[Bone577]

Just to show my credentials, I wenr from a Mt Druitt public primary school, to Penrith, to Girra, then on to Northmead High then Year12 at Tafe.

Tafe is by far the best learning environment of them all. It is no BS fast paced teaching with total freedom. You cover so much more so much quicker, yet I never felt as if i was being overloaded with work. In retrospect much time was wasted in regular schools. In such an environment you don't have people working in competition with eachother, but everyone seems to be concerned more with outdoing themselves rather than eachother. The freedom also means anyone who isn't realy serious about study drops out very quickly or never shows up, this accounts for about 75% of all the people who go.

But, by and large, Penrith was a pure joy to go to, the people there all got along so well, and were all quite friendly, and above all hilarious. My time there consisted of constant laughing. The teachers were no better than anywhere else though.

Penrith though, is different to most selectives, while it has its fair share of good marks (bar the 2002 marks, but I was good friends with the people in that grade and they were all massive stoners, hence the low ranking that year) I didn't find it at all competetive, the people while incredibly clever (moreso than Girra) where very laid back and hence intelligent conversation and learning opportunities were had, but this was usually irrelevant to classwork.

Northmead sucked, it had some utterly brilliant teachrs though, and if you wanted to learn you could do very well. The people there were real nice aswell, depsite what would be expected (well at least to me). The place was whorishly underfunded though, it was less than half the size of Penrith and was very shoddy looking.

Girra on the other hand, was quite different to Penrith, nowhere near the fun, much more competition, nowhere near as interesting. Altogether it gets my vote for worst school I have been to.


Penrith is my 1st choice, it was just that much fun, but aparently these days it isn't anywhere near as good as it used to be. The class of 2002 and 2003 where the spirit of that place.

Tafe is the best one for actual education, I don't think anything comes close, selective or no. The teachers I had for Tafe were all of a very high caliber.



In conclusion, selective schools do not have the best teachers, they may not even have the best learning environment, what they do have is the brightest kids to begin with, and that counts for ALOT. Take it from me, I got a 62 UAI last year, when I got the result I was shocked, I didn't deserve 62, I did NO work and left all my exams 1hour in, I was pulling 30% for assignments (ie merely attempting them) yet I still beat the majority of the state. Being incredibly lazy yet a bit clever (i am about as stupid as a selective student gets) can take you VERY far. Classmates who studied and worked many hours got far less, hence, getting the more gifted students will account for the vast majority of the results of selective schools.

 

[Bone577]

I can assure you that *a lot* more people have left Giraween for James Ruse than the other way round. Whoever leaves James Ruse to go to Giraween is obviously doing it because they don't like Ruse. This ignores the opinions of the remaining 99.5% of the students at Ruse (assuming you get 1-2 people leaving each year). This leads to a biased sample and skewed results (thats statistics talk for: it's the exception rather than the rule).

I went to Ruse for 6 years and I would certainly not have given up my spot to go to another high school. About 5 people from my grade left the school over 6 years (one was because of drugs - his parents thought some of his school friends were a bad influence, another went to Baulko because VA wasn't offered in year 11/12 for our year - it was the only year it wasn't offered). The remaining 97% remained until year 12. That's a pretty high retention rate whatever the measure.

If your post had been a bit more moderate then I would have accepted most of it. I question whether you know "people" who actually left James Ruse for Giraween, or just a single person and are trying to exagerate your case out of some sort of hatred for James Ruse.

You should not be surprised that Ruse is viewed with resentment, much like the poor resent the rich for the wealth they have which is almost always a result of inequality to begin with, James Ruse gains results due to inherant inequality.

I have met exactly 4 people from Ruse, and all of them so far have been eltist, arrogant and pretensious pricks. Now, I am not generalising, I am giving an account of the 4 I have met. The only one that I have come in contact with that seems decent is you (despite your delusional views on Israel-Palestine ). Im sure there are many great people there, but I have yet to meet them, and like above, I resent the elitism and the overfunding of private schools more than anything, looking at Northmead, it is a wonder how the place stays together.

Also the results James Ruse pulls aren't necessarily a justification for funding as they already recieve the brightest students to begin with. The best institution as far as generating results in my experience is Tafe.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Admittedly, the number isn't very high (greater than one, but not by many), and one of these was in fact somebody who transferred Back to Girraween after transferring to Ruse.

However, my point still stands. Schools like James Ruse, which receive a lot more public funding than other schools equally deserving, provide greater resources for its students than are available at any other public school, and instills in its students that they are better than the rest of us. They're not.

The fact that schools like Girraween have to use the thrown-out resources of schools like Baulko and Ruse, goes to show the skewed priorities of the DET, and I am vehemently opposed to the elitist mentality being touted by the "pride of the public school system".

isnt funding allocated in some weird way that is dependent on average parents incomes or sumfing on that line?.. i dun think its arbitary or bias to selective schools

ruse has quite a bit of money to pay with cos of parents donations too.. lik the new tech block and the lecture theatre
i went from a non-selective public school to ruse.. honestly.. it was good.. cos i just didnt kno wat achieving more and higher was.. cos i had performed so well at my old high school..

im not sure that its a great model for education but i think some of the arguments here arent totally valid..
i agree with bambul about the ppl..ppl from my last yrs are the nicest ppl i kno.. ok they werent the psycho high achievers but they are my best impressions of school.. we are all still close.. and its a good environment .. of the 160ish ppl.. i can vouch that at least 85% are ppl i still like and are fond of..

yes but i agree with the not always the best teachers.. but i can tell u some are very memorable and good at wat they do..

 

[haejin]

My brother applied for Girraween. His school principal refused to give him a letter of recommendation, on the basis that he didn't feel that the stronger academic environment would benefit my brother. Problem was, he said that for all his students, since he was anti-selective school. I had a heated debate with his school principal about the merits of selective schooling over comprehensive schooling, arguing that in the stronger learning environment, he would not only be more motivated to work, but also have subject choices open to him that aren't available at any other schools in the area (Software Design & Development). He never got the recommendation, and my former school denied my brother a place.

Which principal? Holden?
Yeah, i reckon he's trying to rank up the school, which is stupid, cos since veryone seems so 'one track' minded we dont have many subject choices.

 

[haejin]

u know.. i will totalli disagree here! just because u go to a selective skOoL doesn't mean u study harder!! mani pplz have actualli realised that some pplz in non-selective skOoLs studies harder than selective students! The newli transferred pplz in yr 10 or 11 tends to do betta than pplz who'z been there since yr 7! the selective skOoLz is onli "betta" becoz the majority there studies.. while onli the minorities in non-selective skOoLs study hard! therefore, in the end, selective skOol students seems to get higher results! no one can realli sai selective skOoLz are betta...

Tru, it doesn't mean you neccesarily study harder, but the environment is more academic rather then , say, sporty. A friend of mine recently got into my school and he came from the local school, Pendle Hill, but shes one of the top chemistry students in the grade.
All in all, i still beleive a selective school is beneficial. Assesment ranks! Think about the assesment ranks! =)

 

[Xayma]

Tru, it doesn't mean you neccesarily study harder, but the environment is more academic rather then , say, sporty. A friend of mine recently got into my school and he came from the local school, Pendle Hill, but shes one of the top chemistry students in the grade.
All in all, i still beleive a selective school is beneficial. Assesment ranks! Think about the assesment ranks! =)

The relative differences ensure that if the results are consisent that the effect would be minimal. The only real difference in assesment ranks, is you are likely to have people around you in a selective school, meaning that if you stuff up in the HSC it isn't as bad, instead of relying completly on yourself to do extremley well. On the other side, if you do extremly well in the HSC (comparative to other assesments) you can boost your own marks quite significantly at a non-selective school.

 

[haejin]

Take it this way...
if my whole class does good for one subject..we all get pushed up. if some do really shit, some alright and some good, we wont get pushed up as much.
I reckon a selective school is liek that.....the people in your class (or at least mine) actually try really hard to get good. At other schools, say like Pendle Hill, people might not want to do so well in compulsary subjects such as english and drag people down.

 

[neo o]

To be honest, not many people truly bomb out at Ruse, I can think of only about 5 in my year who will, and there were about 3 guys who got 40 - 60 in the year above me, with a couple in the 80's and everyone else 90+.

After year 8 I fell off, but during year 12, when people actually started working, the competitive environment helped me (and a number of others) who were struggling to become more motivated.

I don't think there are any differences between teachers at Ruse and other schools, except maybe in the maths faculty (and they're loosing teachers anyway : Canty retired, Doyle went to a private school, O'Hare is going to a private school, Guan left because of a conflict with the new head) etc. Ruse has terrible teachers and Ruse has some cool teachers offsetting that.

Oh Bambul, V.A isn't going to form for this years year 11's, they are all doing drama instead etc (same trend for year 9's going into year 10)

 

[twiddla]

NO selective school receives more funding than any other state school - in fact most other schools get funding preference ahead of selective schools because our current government believe you'll be fine you can cope on your own cos ur intelligent. Funding is increased based on
a) the demographics of the area in which it is located
b) the demographics of the student population (this includes things like whether students come from single parent families etc)

It has nothing to do with whether or not the your school is selective or not!

 

[Phanatical]

Which principal? Holden?
Yeah, i reckon he's trying to rank up the school, which is stupid, cos since veryone seems so 'one track' minded we dont have many subject choices.

I was actually referring to Greystanes HS Principal J. Hardgrove. His anti-selective-school stance is well known, to the detriment of his students.

 

[glycerine]

Yeah, my school gets fuck all funding, we've been campaigning to be insulated against the aircraft noise for years.

 

[§eraphim]

I was actually referring to Greystanes HS Principal J. Hardgrove. His anti-selective-school stance is well known, to the detriment of his students.

that guy is obviously jealous of selective schools. its easy to bullshit some story that selective schools r bad for students when ur stuck in sum backwater spent handing out detentions and figuring out whose smoking pot in the girls toilets.

Selective schools generally attract the top 10% based on performance (not potential)...thus the different between the "talented" and the "gifted". this system naturally lends itself it Asians who are driven to succeed. Anyone who has the gall to criticise selective schools are generally jealous, small minded people sour graping the high quality education and enthusiastic teaching that they desperately want but cant have! Selective schools ARE the pride of the public school system because they represent the cream of NSW students as they stress individual achievement both academically and athletically. This opportunity for true personal development also doesnt come at the high cost of the more "prestigious" pricey private schools. Selective schools propone secular values that we all can appreciate (as opposed to private schools whose religious "flavour" -.-., ie, ideology, is an alienating force). Secular schools are here to stay because they represent the best students - they attract the best, and generally, they produce the best. Furthermore, their emphasis on individual achievement, contrasted with the distorted religious teaching of public schools and the lacklustre, directionless teaching of comprehensive schools, is something that we all share.

 

[Xayma]

. Anyone who has the gall to criticise selective schools are generally jealous, small minded people sour graping the high quality education and enthusiastic teaching that they desperately want but cant have!

No it is because people like you generally give selective schools bad reputations.