Homosexuality in Australia (4 Viewers)

[Enteebee]

Ok how about an allegory

What followed wasn't an allegory

(i suck at them, so sorry if u dont understand)
Baseball caps
they have a nose on the front
to cover your nose
now by wearing them back to front like a cool person (...yea anyway), you are not covering nose, etc. thus rendering purpose of the hats nose not effective

Now people that wear it that way dont care (like homsexuals with their preferences) but adults may or may not.
SOme may say let the kids do what they want (like you in this topic)
Some may say NO! Because it doesnt do what it was designed for (like me in this topic)

I've followed you the entire time The question I'd ask you is, if you have a problem with people wearing their baseball caps back to front, shouldn't you also have a problem with people who don't tie their shoelaces... basically, homosexuality isn't perhaps what we were evolving towards naturally, but neither were we evolving towards a lot of the things which we do now.

To be consistent/logical you either have to disagree with all examples where humans have taken a course away from what they were naturally evolving to do, or not.

 

[Gosford]

What followed wasn't an allegory


I've followed you the entire time The question I'd ask you is, if you have a problem with people wearing their baseball caps back to front, shouldn't you also have a problem with people who don't tie their shoelaces... basically, homosexuality isn't perhaps what we were evolving towards naturally, but neither were we evolving towards a lot of the things which we do now.

To be consistent/logical you either have to disagree with all examples where humans have taken a course away from what they were naturally evolving to do, or not.

Firstly
Damn, what is an allegory
I called one of my texts yesterday in eglish trial, an allegory, i hope i dopnt get marked down LOL

secondly
i do have a dislike for humans doing unnatural things
i dont know if it is because im boring or wahtever
but i dislike many things such as
atrificial insemination, surrogate preganancy, sperm and egg donation (i really dislike this), cloning, also people doing stupid things riosking their lives (but hey its their lives to risk)
also space exploration, i read an article severla years ago, questioning why we were spending millions on space travel, yet hardly anything improving quality of life in third world countries.

anyway, sorry for going off topic
I guess that is just my nature, mnot to like things that i percieve as unnatural

 

[Gosford]

Logic and science have no place in explaining social realities.
Then old people shouldn't be able to have sex. Neither could a baron person.
Having babies isn't their aim.
Made?
You probably mean by God or something, because you don't seem smart enough to understand how humans can be socially "made".

and having same sex relations is going "against the grain". Idiot.

What is with everybody seeing imaginary words
i never said gays are with each other to have babies
Now thats STUPID! You read something that wasdnt even there
if u care to read my posts
u will see i identify that gay people have temptation, what i question is their ability to choose. I undwerstand that they are together because they 'feel attractions to the same sex'. Having babies is just an issue that would arise from that

Made, was probably a vague word and wasnt suitable
whati meant was whether you believe in creation by god or evolution (or both), (yet to meet someone who doesnt remotely believe in any of them), that physiology is better suited for heterosexuals (please stop wasting my time, and actually read my posts, not just skim thorugh them"

Well going against the grain wasnt a point I made
but it is true
but so is many things
Right now in my argument I am going "against the grain"
all that means is being the minority

 

[kami]

Gosford, can you please try to write properly? Writing in proper english is only a waste of time if it is difficult or time consuming for you which, unless you're dyslexic, it really shouldn't be. People won't take you that seriously either if you choose not to.

Random points:

• Who on earth decides what is natural anyway?
• Homosexuality and bisexuality are not choices, do you honestly think anyone would risk the various exclusions from society for sexual pleasure they could 'choose' to have elsewhere?
• If homosexuality and bisexuality are choices doesn't that mean any hetero male (like yourself?) could choose to fall madly in love and desperately want a guy to insert his penis up your rectum? Or does the idea just not appeal to you at all? If it doesn't then you can't choose those feelings.
• You can't equate a desire with an action so your murdered/gay comparison fails, utterly.
• If homo/bisexuality is a choice then so what? It doesn't affect you, doesn't pose a problem to society and it makes homo/bisexual men very happy (bang bang, love etc.).
• How on earth is physiology better made for being straight? And if it isn't then so what? Alot of things are physically easier than others.
• Arguments regarding reproduction is irrelevant unless you want to ban the pill, vasectomies, condoms, abortion and not to forget post menopausal women and sterile people fucking. There are also alot of animals who have sex purely for pleasure, so you'd better spank them for being naughty or something.

 

[Gosford]

1.

Gosford, can you please try to write properly? Writing in proper english is only a waste of time if it is difficult or time consuming for you which, unless you're dyslexic, it really shouldn't be. People won't take you that seriously either if you choose not to.

It is time consuming
because unlike a lot of people on this forum, i have this niggling feeling to study for my trials/other exams at uni
i think that there is better things to do than write properly, its the net mate, where have u been
all the jargon, heck im probably a noob, i dont knnow half the abbrieviations, but i dont complain

2.

Who on earth decides what is natural anyway?

If you cared to READ my posts (as much trouble as it may be, with the terrible english and all) you would see me state that that was my OPINION, am i right, well i think i got a case, but opinions can be biased, confusing etc.
so i dont see ur point there
3.

Homosexuality and bisexuality are not choices, do you honestly think anyone would risk the various exclusions from society for sexual pleasure they could 'choose' to have elsewhere?

Yet again my opinion that yes it is a choice
you dont believe it then fine, whatever
ive heard of people with hoimosexual feelings, supressing it, living happy lives
then yet again ive heard of others supressing it and having an unhappy
but hey, thats wat made me conclude that it may be a choice
4.

If homosexuality and bisexuality are choices doesn't that mean any hetero male (like yourself?) could choose to fall madly in love and desperately want a guy to insert his penis up your rectum? Or does the idea just not appeal to you at all? If it doesn't then you can't choose those feelings.

I dont get that point
i could (well not really as i dont have a car, and still not 18 yet) go somewhere and hook up with another man
but...
I dont want to
so thats why it is confusing
are u trying to juxtapose it with men, not wanting to have sex with women
if u are (which you didnt really explain properly) then i say, fine dont have sex with women
I never said that someone should have sex if they dont want to
i would never want to do that myself (with a guy/girl/transvestite watever)

5.

You can't equate a desire with an action so your murdered/gay comparison fails, utterly.

um... why cant I???
In the US, in the last 2 years they have consideredthat people being gay, transvestite, and murders dont have a choice
Now please say here if i am wrong
but im not being a hypocrite by sayin muderers have a choice, whilst gays dont have a choice
u r being a hypocrite
sayin that homosexuals dont, but murders do (accordin to study very smiliar in nature of abilioty to choose. not choose)
so they have in america equated it for the opposite, so im equating it here for my argument, without being a hypocrite unlike you!

6.

If homo/bisexuality is a choice then so what? It doesn't affect you, doesn't pose a problem to society and it makes homo/bisexual men very happy (bang bang, love etc.).

If yet again you cared to read my posts, you would see that i stated my opinion like many others because thats the purpose of this topic
I also said in my previous posts
that i would not go up to a gay in the street and impose my views on them
why would i bother???
All i said was that i FELT it wasnt natural
would i ever have a gay for a friend
probably not
i also do not associate with anyone that
is vulgar, sexist, racist etc.
some people do because they share views, watever (I'm not comparing homsexuality to racism, sexism etc. all im saying is that like those things i dont like it)
and some people may not want o associate with me because of my views (such as homsexuals, as well as some people on this forum)
so be it
7.

How on earth is physiology better made for being straight? And if it isn't then so what? Alot of things are physically easier than others.

To first question please read previous points, someone already beat you to the punch
secondly yet agin my opinion, i wasnt talking about physically easier (altough it probably isnt)
i was sayin our bodies not so suitable. Please elaborate on this second question
8.

Arguments regarding reproduction is irrelevant unless you want to ban the pill, vasectomies, condoms, abortion and not to forget post menopausal women and sterile people fucking. There are also alot of animals who have sex purely for pleasure, so you'd better spank them for being naughty or something.

please name those animals
after doing some more research
it is believed that dolphins and humans as well as a small number of other naimals (dolphins and humans only one proven) that have sex for alternative reasons
the latest animal to have been gaining groun in this odd field is
chimpanzees, they apparently have it for social reasons, (apparently conflict resolution, lol)
How many do you mean by a lot?
3, 30, 300
how many animal species in the world?
did a search (2-100 million)
so if its was only 2 mill
maybe you would need at least 51% animals to support it (thats what I consider a lot, as compared to animals that dont)
but hey i will let you get away with
.1 mill
maybe even 10 000
i would be impressed if you could right now tell me the name of 100 animals that it is known for them to have sex for pleasure (apart from 3 mentioned)
so please name them, or retract that statement
what did you mean by a lot
and i NEVER said it was wrong for animals to have sex for fun
nor did i say that for humans, i m,erely questioned the NATURE of the sexual relations
trust me, if i only ever have sex for reproductive reasons, I'm gonna either have a sad life, or a lot of kids LOL
so mate yet agin this comment was irrelevent as i was not saying, nor have i ever said that I believe sex would only be for reproductive reasons

thankyou for reading and i am eager for your response (particularly 5, 6 and 8)

PS. My deepest apologies to those fellow readers who had to undergo the ardous task of deciphering my failure to write in (quote) 'proper english'. I sincerely request for anyone that was offended by my ignorance and refusal to write throughout my posts in a proper manner to forgive me.
(hows that for proper!)

 

[Gosford]

Homosexuality! The fashion choice for discerning youths!

Seriously man, how much crack are you smoking?

i said i wasnt good at allegories, or whatever it was
i was trying to explain my point
becoz guess what
i believe it is discourteous to have an opinion saying someone else is wrong (like i implied) without backing it up (which i did)
heck even some of the people on this forum, who to say the least have... been unpleasant towards me have even backed up their arguments
i cant say that for you can I
what u just hunced behind ur computer waiting for the oppurtunistic chance to pounce, to have a go at someone?

 

[Gosford]

Well for one you are entitled to your Opinion, considering it's the same batshit crazy nonsense as believing that the sun revolves around the earth or that magic pixes fellate bus drivers after they cause road accidents; it's utter shite.

It's predicated on three fallacious concepts:

1. That natural law specifically prohibits homosexuality
2. That human sexual interactions are strictly for procreation
3. That natural selection and darwinism are deliberately predisposed to removing from the society elements which can't procreate and homosexuality isn't natural.

1. IS WRONG (u r so stupid)
i said that our physiology doesnt promote homosexuality
USE ur BRAIN mate!
2. Yet again i NEVER said that
READ my posts properly!
3. i used that as a minor example in only 2-3 posts. I have made 10+ on this topic, so i dont see how its based on that principle (u do know understand english dont you?)

Also by the main logic of the natural selection process would be that we have evolved sex from more of a procreative function to an enjoyable and intimate act, that it has become something far more important than mere procreation.

I never said it wasnt
u ask anyone what their first though associated with sex and 99% people will say soemthing to do with sexual pleasure/enjoyment. Hardly anyone would think of reproduction. But that is the purpose of sex in ost animals, it just also has other uses, one in human society that is placed over reproduction
so ur basis here, has no point (do u think before u type mate!)

By your own logic people with blue eyes don't have a choice in their eye colour, also murderers don't have a choice.

LOL u keep on sayin stupid things
I said I DO believe murderes have a choice, i said that there r studies (just like that kinsley dude) which hypothesise that mudrers, gays, transsexuals do not have a choice
i was sayin where does it stop
I already explained that today!
I think it a load of crap that murders dont have a choice.

Do you see that you're conflating needlessly while trying to prove a point. What you're stating is far more offensive than just disagreeing because you're deliberately linking negative traits with homosexuality in order to fuel your own flawed reasoning.

I dont really feel that i have started to actually delve into traits of homosexuality (apart from sexual relations)
im not going to waste my time talking about their love for fashion, the way they talk, their effiminate nature etc.
Your reasoning is flawed

Murder is binary, sexuality is not.

Says who?
i know some people that would say neither are binary
i say both could be
(opinions, remember)

And I believe you'll see the study you so hackishly cite said that there is a genetic variation that predisposes certain individuals to violence in order to resolve conflicts. Wow that doesn't sound like you know social biology and psychology does it, whose ever heard of alpha males using force to ensure dominance.

My my, someone isnt using proper english
u just made up a word
i dont make up words
please use proper words (if u do know enlgish like u imply)

We're not being hypocrites,

so u r for or against people having choices or no choices
simple really
otherwise dont bring it up (dont know why you would want to look like a fool)

unlike you we're not being intellectually dishonest and mental midgets either.

uhh... NO!

Me? A Racist? But some of my best friends are bigots!

why do u need to defend urself when i never said u were?
thats just stupid
it also shows u to be insecure, as only insecure peopl feel the eneed to defend themselevs when they dont need to (and u said i dont know anything about psychology)

Do 51% of all animals have mammary glands (The basis of being a mammal) NO?! THEN BEING A MAMMAL IS UNNATURAL STATISTICALLY.

u just keep on sounding dumber by the minute
i would say that mammals are a small proportion of animals
they are different to other types of animals

unless you r implying that homsexuals are different to us, thus driving a wedge between us and them, which i may not mind but i would have thought u would have
last time i checked homosexuals walked like us, talked like us (same languages, not voices) etc.
mammals are quite different to other animals
in future, when u make a point at least think first
please dont waste my time with a reply unless u have a somewhat substantial thesis to ur argument apart from "you're wrong, and here are bogus reasons why!

 

[Gosford]

He has science that shows that sexuality is not a binary concept nor should it be boiled down to one. You have flawed logic and an idiotic understanding of what constitutes theory and what constitutes opinion.

Stop conflating the two. Otherwise we can have a big book burning when you form the EQUALLY AS CORRECT OPINION that we're all the product of a leek melting through the eyes of a vapid drain. The soft and subtle drip drip of reality cushioning our inevitable fall to moral collapse through the torrid reasoning of time and pleasure.

u cant call what he wrote science
its is too much opinion
im not calling what im saying science, i KNOW its opinion
im USING science to assist in terms of relating to human pysiology but thats different
im still waiting for you to make a point

 

[Gosford]

fascism
do u even know what it means
oh wait its u that we r talkin bout
it probably has some other meaning
first u have a go at me for bad english, then you make up words
then u use words like calling me a fascist, even though not only is it irrelevent it is totally incorrect

 

[*BIRDIE*]

i have a gay fren an love 'em to death. i know a couple of gays and thier awesome! i love 'em, i find i can have more fun with them!!

 

[kami]

1.
It is time consuming
because unlike a lot of people on this forum, i have this niggling feeling to study for my trials/other exams at uni

If using full stops and proper spelling prevents you from studying then I'd advise you to leave the thread and start genuinely studying.

If you cared to READ my posts (as much trouble as it may be, with the terrible english and all) you would see me state that that was my OPINION, am i right, well i think i got a case, but opinions can be biased, confusing etc.
so i dont see ur point there

You can argue against the logic upon which a person bases their opinions, however if you don't believe in arguing about opinions then why don't you just stop it right here and now?

The point was that there is no pre-defined 'natural' in social terms, its just an adjective people throw around to make something sound more correct.

Yet again my opinion that yes it is a choice
you dont believe it then fine, whatever
ive heard of people with hoimosexual feelings, supressing it, living happy lives
then yet again ive heard of others supressing it and having an unhappy
but hey, thats wat made me conclude that it may be a choice

Would people choose to be excluded, treated like shit and be told that they're not normal? Yes or no?

4.
I dont get that point
i could (well not really as i dont have a car, and still not 18 yet) go somewhere and hook up with another man
but...
I dont want to
so thats why it is confusing
are u trying to juxtapose it with men, not wanting to have sex with women
if u are (which you didnt really explain properly) then i say, fine dont have sex with women
I never said that someone should have sex if they dont want to
i would never want to do that myself (with a guy/girl/transvestite watever)

Its very simple; if being gay is a choice then anyone can make it, including you, so go choose to fall in love with a man. Since you would never want to then it ain't a choice.

5.
um... why cant I???
In the US, in the last 2 years they have consideredthat people being gay, transvestite, and murders dont have a choice
Now please say here if i am wrong
but im not being a hypocrite by sayin muderers have a choice, whilst gays dont have a choice
u r being a hypocrite
sayin that homosexuals dont, but murders do (accordin to study very smiliar in nature of abilioty to choose. not choose)
so they have in america equated it for the opposite, so im equating it here for my argument, without being a hypocrite unlike you!

Me wanting to kill you would be a desire, me killing you would be an action.
Me wanting the same sex (being gay/bi) is a desire.

I don't have a choice in my feelings (and neither do you), only my actions. The two are thus not comparable.

6.
If yet again you cared to read my posts, you would see that i stated my opinion like many others because thats the purpose of this topic
I also said in my previous posts
that i would not go up to a gay in the street and impose my views on them
why would i bother???
All i said was that i FELT it wasnt natural
would i ever have a gay for a friend
probably not
i also do not associate with anyone that
is vulgar, sexist, racist etc.
some people do because they share views, watever (I'm not comparing homsexuality to racism, sexism etc. all im saying is that like those things i dont like it)
and some people may not want o associate with me because of my views (such as homsexuals, as well as some people on this forum)
so be it

No.

That's how I FEEL, so don't argue with it.:wave:

7.
To first question please read previous points, someone already beat you to the punch
secondly yet agin my opinion, i wasnt talking about physically easier (altough it probably isnt)
i was sayin our bodies not so suitable. Please elaborate on this second question

Does it matter if it is difficult for other men to put penises in rectums? Since you don't actually have to get involved.

They're also suited to it since it actually works, I can go into detail from personal experience if you wish?

8.
please name those animals
after doing some more research
it is believed that dolphins and humans as well as a small number of other naimals (dolphins and humans only one proven) that have sex for alternative reasons
the latest animal to have been gaining groun in this odd field is
chimpanzees, they apparently have it for social reasons, (apparently conflict resolution, lol)
How many do you mean by a lot?
3, 30, 300
how many animal species in the world?
did a search (2-100 million)
so if its was only 2 mill
maybe you would need at least 51% animals to support it (thats what I consider a lot, as compared to animals that dont)
but hey i will let you get away with
.1 mill
maybe even 10 000
i would be impressed if you could right now tell me the name of 100 animals that it is known for them to have sex for pleasure (apart from 3 mentioned)
so please name them, or retract that statement
what did you mean by a lot
and i NEVER said it was wrong for animals to have sex for fun
nor did i say that for humans, i m,erely questioned the NATURE of the sexual relations
trust me, if i only ever have sex for reproductive reasons, I'm gonna either have a sad life, or a lot of kids LOL
so mate yet agin this comment was irrelevent as i was not saying, nor have i ever said that I believe sex would only be for reproductive reasons

• The majority of animals don't have a penis, your genitals are unnatural - amputate post-haste.
• If same-sex sexual interaction is unnatural because it cannot lead to reproduction then so is every other form of non-reproductive sex.
• Apes, dolphins, flies, lovebirds, penguins, albatross, rams, snakes etc. plenty of gay sex. Its also pretty obvious that drosophila flies lack the sentience to choose to be gay.

PS. My deepest apologies to those fellow readers who had to undergo the ardous task of deciphering my failure to write in (quote) 'proper english'. I sincerely request for anyone that was offended by my ignorance and refusal to write throughout my posts in a proper manner to forgive me.
(hows that for proper!)

Arduous
how's

 

[Gosford]

Would people choose to be excluded, treated like shit and be told that they're not normal? Yes or no?

Well (please think carefully before u speak)
i said some people choose to suppress their desires
even though they r gay
now let me think for a moment
uh... yep thats a
CHOICE
so if they can choose not to be in homosexual relationships then i think that clearly supports my point

Its very simple; if being gay is a choice then anyone can make it, including you, so go choose to fall in love with a man. Since you would never want to then it ain't a choice.

Made no sense at all
I could choose tomorro to hook up with a guy but i dont
and THAT is a choice (choosng not to)


Me wanting to kill you would be a desire, me killing you would be an action.
Me wanting the same sex (being gay/bi) is a desire.
and by having sex it is also an action
ur point?
exactly!

I don't have a choice in my feelings (and neither do you), only my actions. The two are thus not comparable.

exactly my point about homosexuality, thanx for proving it mate

If same-sex sexual interaction is unnatural because it cannot lead to reproduction then so is every other form of non-reproductive sex.

It is still natural u silly person
different purpose
but the process is still natural

 

[Tulipa]

I think you're confusing homosexual relationships with being homosexual.

Well (please think carefully before u speak)
i said some people choose to suppress their desires
even though they r gay
now let me think for a moment
uh... yep thats a
CHOICE
so if they can choose not to be in homosexual relationships then i think that clearly supports my point

You can CHOOSE to ignore the desires of homosexuality but here it seems like you're admitting that the stance does exist? Clarify please?

 

[kami]

It is really sad that you'd spend money on a premium account just to troll one thread ...

Well (please think carefully before u speak)
i said some people choose to suppress their desires
even though they r gay
now let me think for a moment
uh... yep thats a
CHOICE
so if they can choose not to be in homosexual relationships then i think that clearly supports my point

You can have desires but not act upon them, the possession of these desires makes one gay or bisexual, not the action. Nowhere here have you attempted to prove that the desire is voluntary. You not desiring same-sex relations simply proves my point - you couldn't want it no matter how hard you tried, regardless of you being able to hook up with another male.

It is still natural u silly person

What is 'natural'?

 

[Gosford]

You can have desires but not act upon them, the possession of these desires makes one gay or bisexual, not the action. Nowhere here have you attempted to prove that the desire is voluntary. You not desiring same-sex relations simply proves my point - you couldn't want it no matter how hard you tried, regardless of you being able to hook up with another male.

i didnt say desires were voluntary
i said actions
frustrating
ive been sayin desires r there but it should ignored
have you not been readin my posts

What is 'natural'?

please go back
u already asked that (or some1 did
and i explained it
if u read it u can then surely find something to disagree with then pls post that

 

[kami]

i didnt say desires were voluntary

Then neither is homo/bisexuality.

please go back
u already asked that (or some1 did
and i explained it
if u read it u can then surely find something to disagree with then pls post that

I asked, you simply said that it was your opinion and gave no actual reason.

 

[Tulipa]

i didnt say desires were voluntary
i said actions
frustrating
ive been sayin desires r there but it should ignored
have you not been readin my posts

So homosexuality does exist because the desires exist. That's what you're saying?

Except it should be suppressed because ... why?

What's your reasoning for that? Apart from it being "unnatural" and if that's the only reason how is it "unnatural"?

 

[Tulipa]

nice one

Since I'm actually addressing you without insulting you and trying to understand your viewpoint, perhaps you should answer my questions?

 

[Kwayera]

The majority of animals don't have a penis, your genitals are unnatural - amputate post-haste.

Actually that is.. not entirely true. Phylogenetically, a goodly proportion of animals (I'm including all phyla here) have penii or analog structures, including most mammals, many insects, sharks, worms, nematodes, etc etc.

Also, to Gosford and everyone else - I know I'm beating a dead horse with a rather large stick here, but the vast majority of reasonably intelligent animals participate in homosexual behaviour for one reason or another - it's not restricted to those who have sex for pleasure, like humans, dolphins, chimpanzees (also, Gosford, chimps are not monkeys. They are PRIMATES, like us, but NOT monkeys), yadda yadda.

 

[Gosford]

sorry
tulipa
ur right
im sorry also to kami, if ive been rude, im just a bit frustrated by other members
thanx to u two guys for displayin ur views and being mature when opposing my thoughts
i appreciate it