Homosexuality in Australia (20 Viewers)

[Riet]

Both those issues have nothing to do with same-sex marriages/unions. Having legally recognised same-sex marriages/unions does not negatively impact upon the public or the welfare of children.

Well that's your view. We believe that it would. Right. Square one is fun!

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[jennyfromdabloc]

I said no such thing. It was the other fellows who mangled marriage and adoption

So marriage and adoption are separate issue. Good. We agree.

So why is allowing gay marriage, and marriage alone, harmful to the public?

 

[jazzzod]

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pwnd

 

[Name_Taken]

So marriage and adoption are separate issue. Good. We agree.

So why is allowing gay marriage, and marriage alone, harmful to the public?

This has been discussed.

Have a read of this. This page is a fairly comprehensive summary as to the Christian arguements agaisnt gay marriage. I have summaried the main points below as a TL;DR version.

Same-sex Marriage, Gay, Homosexual, and Lesbian Unions

1. Effects on Moral and Religious Standards:
- The Bible (as well as many other religious texts) condemn homosexuality, and by extention, renounce gay marriage.
- By accepting gay marriage, it presents homosexuality as good and wholesome.

2. Effects on Traditional Marriage:
- Firstly the Bible (as well as other religious texts) authorise marriage as a relationship strictly between a heterosexual couple.
- Accepting gay marriage would be promoting a perverted relationship to the dignified status currently held by honourable marriage, thus tarnishing the wholesomeness of traditional marriage.

3. Effects on Children:
- Part of traditional marriage involves the companship of a mother and father caring for their children. Gay couples are unable to concieve children.
- Homosexual marriages deprive children of the right to being raised by mother and father.

4. Effects on Religious Organisations:
- The Church is responsible to preach the truth by God and oppose moral evils.
- Legislation and encouraging of gay marriage will pressure religious organisations to accept homosexuality.

5. Effects on Government and Education:
- The church and government have separate roles, but both church and government share a common duty to promote good morals and discourage evil conduct.
- Legislating gay marriage would put the government in the position of justifying evil.

The link explains the points in more detail, if you are curious.

 

[Iron]

Ffs, the quote i responded to was edited k? ffsk?

A marriage is not private. You dont keep a secret wife or husband. It is a public expression of love and commitment. The public attend the wedding as a sign of approval and support for the union. There must be an official and witnesses to legally conduct the ceremony.

Now.
If you take our view that homosexuality is unnatural and wrong and perverted and damaging to our attitudes(respect) of life and against a natural law, then it follows that you could not give public approval of such a ceremony. Our view is that marriage is between a man and woman, that a healthy family is best run and will always be best run by both a man and a woman, that this is the union which forms the backbone of any good society and if we waver on this point, then a stronger more disciplined society of healthy families will simply sweep us away. Hello Islamic Republic of Australia 2100!~

 

[Ethanescence]

Have a read of this. This page is a fairly comprehensive summary as to the Christian arguements agaisnt gay marriage. I have summaried the main points below as a TL;DR version.

Same-sex Marriage, Gay, Homosexual, and Lesbian Unions

1. Effects on Moral and Religious Standards:
- The Bible (as well as many other religious texts) condemn homosexuality, and by extention, renounce gay marriage.
- By accepting gay marriage, it presents homosexuality as good and wholesome.

2. Effects on Traditional Marriage:
- Firstly the Bible (as well as other religious texts) authorise marriage as a relationship strictly between a heterosexual couple.
- Accepting gay marriage would be promoting a perverted relationship to the dignified status currently held by honourable marriage, thus tarnishing the wholesomeness of traditional marriage.

3. Effects on Children:
- Part of traditional marriage involves the companship of a mother and father caring for their children. Gay couples are unable to concieve children.
- Homosexual marriages deprive children of the right to being raised by mother and father.

4. Effects on Religious Organisations:
- The Church is responsible to preach the truth by God and oppose moral evils.
- Legislation and encouraging of gay marriage will pressure religious organisations to accept homosexuality.

5. Effects on Government and Education:
- The church and government have separate roles, but both church and government share a common duty to promote good morals and discourage evil conduct.
- Legislating gay marriage would put the government in the position of justifying evil.

All those arguments are biased, subjective and not based in actual reality. And even if all those impacts do occur with the advent of legally recognised same-sex marriages/unions, why are they considered negative?

The only thing negative is the wording of each point. Saying something is "evil" or "tarnishes wholesomeness" is really only expressing an opinion, not any actual negative impacts upon society or the public.

 

[Riet]

they aren't real reasons though.

 

[Ethanescence]

Our view is that marriage is between a man and woman, that a healthy family is best run and will always be best run by both a man and a woman, that this is the union which forms the backbone of any good society and if we waver on this point, then a stronger more disciplined society of healthy families will simply sweep us away. Hello Islamic Republic of Australia 2100!~

Greater acceptance of homosexuality in society currently has no correlation to declines in population growth. And neither does greater occurrence of same-sex marriages/unions correlate with less "healthy" families, whatever you meant by that. If you have any empirical evidence or reasonable arguments to suggest otherwise, please feel free to share.

 

[Iron]

Greater acceptance of homosexuality in society currently has no correlation to declines in population growth. And neither does greater occurrence of same-sex marriages/unions correlate with less "healthy" families, whatever you meant by that. If you have any empirical evidence or reasonable arguments to suggest otherwise, please feel free to share.

Haha I dont need to provide evidence you twit. Omg. Two men cannot produce a child - neither can two women! Can I draw you a diagram?

If society says, clearly and formally, that a homosexual partnership is equally as important as a heterosexual one, then it is self-evident that there will be more "public" homosexuals and more heterosexuals convinced that they are "bisexual" and less families. It would be another nail in our civilization's coffin if the state caves to popular pressure and says 'life -its dignity and continuation- isnt the important thing; the important thing is that you feel liberated and free to do whatever you like while you live. Never mind future lives or even current ones other than your own'.

 

[Kwayera]

But that relies heavily on the personal, religious conviction that marriage/unions/sex is for procreation and procreation alone.

Which oher people don't believe in.

Next!

 

[dolbinau]

Haha I dont need to provide evidence you twit. Omg. Two men cannot produce a child - neither can two women! Can I draw you a diagram?

If society says, clearly and formally, that a homosexual partnership is equally as important as a heterosexual one, then it is self-evident that there will be more "public" homosexuals and more heterosexuals convinced that they are "bisexual" and less families. It would be another nail in our civilization's coffin if the state caves to popular pressure and says 'life -its dignity and continuation- isnt the important thing; the important thing is that you feel liberated and free to do whatever you like while you live. Never mind future lives or even current ones other than your own'.

You can't suggest that if homosexual partnership is considered 'equally as important', people will be convinced they are bi.

 

[Ethanescence]

Haha I dont need to provide evidence you twit. Omg. Two men cannot produce a child - neither can two women! Can I draw you a diagram?

If society says, clearly and formally, that a homosexual partnership is equally as important as a heterosexual one, then it is self-evident that there will be more "public" homosexuals and more heterosexuals convinced that they are "bisexual" and less families. It would be another nail in our civilization's coffin for the state to say 'life isnt the important thing; the important thing is that you feel liberated and free to do whatever you like while you live'.

I disagree.

Yes, closeted homosexuals who are single and never going to search for a heterosexual partner anyway might be more encouraged to seek a same-sex partner in the more open and socially-accepting environment. However, that in itself does not equate to less children being born, seeing as those individuals were never going to procreate anyway.

All that will happen is that homosexuals in denial will be less likely to enter heterosexual relationships and have children as they are today, as the social pressures to conform to heterosexuality will not be as overbearing. Though, this is a positive impact.

Many of these faux relationships (such as a closeted or "recovering" homosexual man getting married to a woman) will end up in divorce regardless, or will lead further family issues down the road - and this will not be a "healthy" relationship - particularly if children are involved. It would be better for all involved if such a relationship was not entered into in the first place.

Homosexuality is not a choice, and neither is heterosexuality. So regardless of the social acceptance of homosexuality, there will always be homosexuals. Which means that not accepting same-sex marriages/unions on the grounds that it will create more homosexual relationships is unfounded, especially when it won't actually detract from current/future heterosexual relationships.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Yes, closeted homosexuals who are single and never going to search for a heterosexual partner anyway might be more encouraged to seek a same-sex partner in the more open and socially-accepting environment. However, that in itself does not equate to less children being born, seeing as those individuals were never going to procreate anyway.

My exact thinking! Whoo you deserve a gold star!

 

[Iron]

I cant argue that the law can settle this. It cant. The whole culture has to shift before we hit the iceberg. We cant totally trust good families to intimidate their wayward children out of "coming out" anymore. Really the last tangible barrier is the denial of homosexual marriage. It's the state's way of saying that this isnt normal behaviour - it isnt relative and equal to the union which naturally creates life. With the fall of this last wall - and fall it probably will - we'll continue our greasy slink into oblivion and irrelevance. The whole culture is fucking rotten to the core. We in the west probably gave up on truth and life a few hundred years ago and have since been barely propped up by material superiority and other historical accidents. But there is a wind coming from the east that will sweep away all of your pride - including mine. We are steering into a dark and uncertain future.
Catholics like me are just rats swimming towards the sinking ship of the church; latching on until the end

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

I cant argue that the law can settle this. It cant. The whole culture has to shift before we hit the iceberg. We cant totally trust good families to intimidate their wayward children out of "coming out" anymore. Really the last tangible barrier is the denial of homosexual marriage. It's the state's way of saying that this isnt normal behaviour - it isnt relative and equal to the union which naturally creates life. With the fall of this last wall - and fall it probably will - we'll continue our greasy slink into oblivion and irrelevance. The whole culture is fucking rotten to the core. We in the west probably gave up on truth and life a few hundred years ago and fell back on our material superiority. But there is a wind coming from the east that will sweep away all of your pride - including mine. We are steering into a dark and uncertain future. Catholics like me are just rats swimming towards the sinking ship of the church.

But it is a natural/normal occurance.

 

[Iron]

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[Planck]

How do you explain homosexual behaviour in animals, Alex?

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

...

No answer! We win! Rejoice!

 

[ChockoRepublic]

How do you explain homosexual behaviour in animals, Alex?

attention seeking

 

[Iron]

How do you explain homosexual behaviour in animals, Alex?

The same way I explain their arbitrary violence and generally poor hygiene?
I dont take lessons in morality from monkeys.