If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (2 Viewers)

[stainmepink]

i think religion is a weapon of social control. my thesis is here

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?p=1977927#post1977927

 

[thorrnydevil]

That rests on two very critical premises: that there is a Heaven and that there is a God. Neither of which you can prove.

And you can't prove there isn't!

Gay people might tend to disagree on that one. But I do take your point that a lot of modern religions do emphasis doing good. Take the religion down a tangential path though, and all hell breaks lose.

As in most religions, there are extremeists. Gay people may disagree with me, however it is only certain sects that preach hatred of homosexuals. Personally, I have nothing against homosexuals, and yes, like everyone else says, I have many gay friends.

I agree that a lot of people will always feel the need to go to religion. I suppose I have had the advantage of living a very comfortable life and have both (a) not been indoctrinated into religion and (b) have also studied reason and critical thinking. So I've never really had the need for the comforting pull of religion nor been taken by a lack of reasoning.

I also had a very comfortable upbriniging and both of my parents and family are athiest.

True, but the difference between us is that my beliefs are founded on reason. Faith on the other hand, is belief without proof.

What are you beliefs? Prove to me that you're correct.

 

[Calculon]

MS's beliefs are founded on the idea that as assumptions increase, the likelyhood of your conclusion being correct decreases exponentially.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

And you can't prove there isn't!

The onus is clearly on you to prove that there is. See the Argument Guide under the fallacies section: 'Shifting the Burden of Proof'.

As in most religions, there are extremeists. Gay people may disagree with me, however it is only certain sects that preach hatred of homosexuals. Personally, I have nothing against homosexuals, and yes, like everyone else says, I have many gay friends.

Good to hear

I also had a very comfortable upbriniging and both of my parents and family are athiest.

That rules out one of my advantages, I stand by the other one.

What are you beliefs? Prove to me that you're correct.

My belief is that we cannot know whether there is a God or not, so it is best to withhold judgment (agnostic). By definition I am correct. I cannot actually be wrong, because I do not affirm or deny the existence of a supreme being.

However, when talking about the conceptions of God as defined in religion, I often tend to lean towards an atheist point of view. Prove to you that I am correct? The argument is that I am likely to be correct because you are not. In other words, you have not demonstrated the existence of God. Since there is no reason or evidence to believe such an extraordinarily controversial and far-fetched proposition, I should not believe it until shown, by reason and evidence, that there is.

 

[erawamai]

I love thornydevil!

 

[thorrnydevil]

The onus is clearly on you to prove that there is. See the Argument Guide under the fallacies section: 'Shifting the Burden of Proof'.
Good to hear
That rules out one of my advantages, I stand by the other one.
My belief is that we cannot know whether there is a God or not, so it is best to withhold judgment (agnostic). By definition I am correct. I cannot actually be wrong, because I do not affirm or deny the existence of a supreme being.

However, when talking about the conceptions of God as defined in religion, I often tend to lean towards an atheist point of view. Prove to you that I am correct? The argument is that I am likely to be correct because you are not. In other words, you have not demonstrated the existence of God. Since there is no reason or evidence to believe such an extraordinarily controversial and far-fetched proposition, I should not believe it until shown, by reason and evidence, that there is.

How many copies of the bible exist? Do you know? Originals from the very first writing of it.

There are more than 14,000 existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions that agree dramatically with each other. In addition, these texts agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC. The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in Israel in the 1940's and 50's, also provide phenomenal evidence for the reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) before the arrival of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is easily the most historically important and reliable book of our lifetime. It has been translated into many different languages and Jesus has been recorded in history as having done his miracles into many different texts, apart from the bible.

Besides, do you really think that Jesus's disciples would actually spread the word of Christianity? They faced execution and torture for what they did, but they still did it. Do you believe these men would have done this for nothing? For a phony who wanted his name known throughout history? Definetly not! They did it because they knew that Jesus had done amazing things.

The Bible offers more proof in favour of God, Jesus, heaven and Hell than anything you claim you can produce from you studies in 'critical thinking'.

 

[Calculon]

Or because they heard about Jesus, and latched onto a concept they had no proof of because it brought a little hope into their lives.

 

[hipPo3]

How many copies of the bible exist? Do you know? Originals from the very first writing of it.

The Bible is easily the most historically important and reliable book of our lifetime. It has been translated into many different languages and Jesus has been recorded in history as having done his miracles into many different texts, apart from the bible.

Besides, do you really think that Jesus's disciples would actually spread the word of Christianity? They faced execution and torture for what they did, but they still did it. Do you believe these men would have done this for nothing? For a phony who wanted his name known throughout history? Definetly not! They did it because they knew that Jesus had done amazing things.

The Bible offers more proof in favour of God, Jesus, heaven and Hell than anything you claim you can produce from you studies in 'critical thinking'.

The Dead Sea Scrolls also depict stories of old testament and has the whole story of the old testament, but doesnt contain anything regarding Jesus. Apparntly the only valid biblical document before 100 A.D

Im not sure about this .. but i read somewhere that it was only because of one of the Roman Emperors that Christianty came .. Christianity only became a popular religion 300yrs after Christs death.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

How many copies of the bible exist? Do you know? Originals from the very first writing of it.

The Bible isn't necessarily true, no matter how many copies there are. How many copies of Shakespeare's works are there? Do you know? Originals from the very first writings of it. This says nothing about the truth value.

There are more than 14,000 existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions that agree dramatically with each other. In addition, these texts agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC. The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in Israel in the 1940's and 50's, also provide phenomenal evidence for the reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) before the arrival of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is easily the most historically important and reliable book of our lifetime. It has been translated into many different languages and Jesus has been recorded in history as having done his miracles into many different texts, apart from the bible.

Besides, do you really think that Jesus's disciples would actually spread the word of Christianity? They faced execution and torture for what they did, but they still did it. Do you believe these men would have done this for nothing? For a phony who wanted his name known throughout history? Definetly not! They did it because they knew that Jesus had done amazing things.

The Bible offers more proof in favour of God, Jesus, heaven and Hell than anything you claim you can produce from you studies in 'critical thinking'.

I hate to break it to you, but you cannot use the Bible to prove the existence of God.

1. The Bible shows God is true.
2. How do we know the bible is true?
3. The Bible was inspired by/word of God.

Circular reasoning at its most obvious. Premise 3 requires the truth of the attempted conclusion. If you still don't get it, I will make it clearer in detail:

1. The Bible shows God is true.
2. How do we know the bible is true?
3. The Bible was inspired by/word of God.
4. How do we know the Bible was inspired by/word of God?
5. The Bible says so.
6. How do we know the bible is true?
7. The Bible was inspired by/word of God.
8. How do we know the Bible was inspired by/word of God?
9. The Bible says so.
10. How do we know the bible is true?
11. The Bible was inspired by/word of God.
12. How do we know the Bible was inspired by/word of God?
13. The Bible says so.... (ad infinitum)

You cannot use the Bible to prove that God exists. It is circular reasoning. Next proof/reason please.

But all socieites have a religion, and it is the basis of all of the world as we know it. It is you who is rebelling and saying that it can't be certain, so therefore the onus is on you to prove that there isn't a god.

That isn't relevant. The more people that believe something is not really relevant to the burden of proof.

FYI there are more references to Jesus than Julius Caeser, and there are recordings of biblical events through out history.

A person called Jesus existing and the proposition "there is a God" are two completely unconnected premises.

 

[Lozacious]

The Bible isn't necessarily true, no matter how many copies there are. How many copies of Shakespeare's works are there?

Do you dispute that Shakespear actually existed?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

However, when talking about the conceptions of God as defined in religion, I often tend to lean towards an atheist point of view. Prove to you that I am correct? The argument is that I am likely to be correct because you are not. In other words, you have not demonstrated the existence of God. Since there is no reason or evidence to believe such an extraordinarily controversial and far-fetched proposition, I should not believe it until shown, by reason and evidence, that there is.

I prefer to define myself as Atheist because Agnostic is often used by people whom are more 50/50.

Do you dispute that Shakespear actually existed?

That is so dumb. We can use analogical reasoning and see that there are writers today, as there were writers in shakespears time. It is much harder when you are dealing with a being whom is claiming he is god for there is no one currently on this planet who is god.

 

[Lozacious]

That is so dumb. We can use analogical reasoning and see that there are writers today, as there were writers in shakespears time. It is much harder when you are dealing with a being whom is claiming he is god for there is no one currently on this planet who is god.

There are historical recordings corresponding to a whole heap of things in the bible.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

There are some things that correspond, usually simple things humans could have guessed, no amazing clear predictions made by the bible have come true tho.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Do you dispute that Shakespear[e] actually existed?

That is not relevant to my point, but in answer to your question, my response is that from all the historical evidence upon which teachers, scholars, historians and virtually all of public at large have based their beliefs on, I believe that it is highly likely that a man named Shakespeare existed, who probably wrote a lot of the literature that is now attributed to a person of that name.

 

[Lozacious]

Do you believe Jesus existed?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Do you believe Jesus existed?

A decent ammount of evidence seems to show that a human by some name (that is now given the name jesus) existed.

 

[Calculon]

Do you believe Jesus existed?

I believe a man named Jesus existed, and that he did many things, but miracles were not among them.

 

[SashatheMan]

That is not relevant to my point, but in answer to your question, my response is that from all the historical evidence upon which teachers, scholars, historians and virtually all of public at large have based their beliefs on, I believe that it is highly likely that a man named Shakespeare existed, who probably wrote a lot of the literature that is now attributed to a person of that name.

i remember hearing that there was a contraversion belief that shakespear didnt actually write most of him work, but took it from someone else. i dont know much about this though

 

[MoonlightSonata]

There are historical recordings corresponding to a whole heap of things in the bible.

So too are there historical accuracies in Shakespeare's plays. It doesn't validate the entire accuracy of the text (especially the ostensibly fanciful claims about a supreme being).

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Do you believe Jesus existed?

Jesus may very well have existed. There may be some doubts but let's say that he did. It still says nothing about the existence of God.