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V8 Supercars 2006 (5 Viewers)

Chelsea FC

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Well done Rick Kelly

Well about fucking time. After 3 mother fucking years of seeing those Fords winning, its about Fucking time for fucking sakes Holden won.

Ford is a disgrace. Full of whingers Eg. Ambrose (even though his gone) no1 Ford whinger, then Ingall the cry baby and finally Lowndes who whinges when being blocked.

Well FUCK OFF FORDS!!!

HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA.
FORD MEANS NOTHING TO AUSTRALIA.
 

Cape

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

Yup. Rick can't win without his brother letting him through (see Tassy); Skaife letting him pass easily (see Phillip Island); Tander holding Lowndes up for 2 seconds a lap.

Oh, not to mention when Uncle Tom told him that they don't need the car next year, what does he do at the first possible opportunity? Smash Lowndes straight off the road.









:rolleyes:
 

Chelsea FC

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

Cape said:
Yup. Rick can't win without his brother letting him through (see Tassy); Skaife letting him pass easily (see Phillip Island); Tander holding Lowndes up for 2 seconds a lap.

Oh, not to mention when Uncle Tom told him that they don't need the car next year, what does he do at the first possible opportunity? Smash Lowndes straight off the road.









:rolleyes:
You're Kidding aren't you?:rolleyes:, I've seen Lowndes take out drivers for his aggresive driving same thing goes with Ambrose.

And oh yeah sometime they get away with it....:rolleyes:
 

ObjectsInSpace

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Wow, we do have ourselves a bit of a mess on this one. I didn't agree with them awarding Kelly the trophy if only because of the possibility he will be penalised, which would lose him the championship. A bit unfair on a kid who sounds as if he's yet to reach puberty. Again, Blue or Red, you're going to see it differently.

The argument comes down to blocking, which apparently is not clearly defined in the rules, though personally I think the differenced betwwen the incidents with Skaife, Tander and Kelly were all fairly clear-cut. If Lowndes was blocking when Kelly made a move on him, it was legit. He was fighting for position and it is his right as a driver to try to keep that position (provided it is with the rules). On the other hand, while Tander and Skaife were also fighting for position, their lap times were significantly slower than normal for a pair of drivers fighting for position (fighting regulalrly loses time to other drivers as contenders are not on the racing line), and it was apparent that they were slowing down to bring Kelly back into the race. So I think Lowndes was in the right there. It was a legitimate driving move and he was also attempting a pass on the older Kelly (those cars are bloody hard to spin as they're so heavy, especially if someone else tapped you first). In-car footage from Rick clearly showed Craig's braking lights were on before there was contact, meaning Kelly had more than enough time to react.

Secondly, Kelly shouldn't have been where he was. While he was lining up for a pass on Craig, he was nowhere near the racing line as Craig sure as hell wasn't given that he was in the process of going around Todd, who did have the line. It may have been an everything-or-nothing race as the points were tied, but that's not a licence to drive like an idiot (sometihng Kelly has a history of; remember him and Ambrose at Surfers' a few years ago?).

If the officials decide not to further penalise Kelly, they are in some respects, hypocrites. They've already pinged him for causing the incident and therefore consider him guilty, so not taking it further would be the equivalent of saying they should not have given him the drive-through. I highly doubt Kelly deliberatly hit Lowndes because he had as much to lose as Craig did; if both of them were put out of the running, Craig would win as he had finished higher overall for the round and had come a place above Kelly in Race 2, therefore awarding him the Championship on a countback. Also, while Kelly has had moments of sheer stupidity, he's not dumb enough or inexperienced enough to do something like that.

So, assuming they penalise him again (and the case is fairly strong for it), it now becomes a question of how much they do it. The levels of penalities (ranging from ten seconds to five minutes being added to the finishing time) means that one of them has to win, and if Lowndes came out on top, there's going to be a stink from Holden fans. That's to be expected, but they do have a point: while Kelly caused the accident (Holden fans won't admit this), he didn't cause the damage that resulted in Lowndes being demoted to last place. It was Davidson who hit him, not Kelly. However, Rick was a major contributor to that, and frankly, Davidson was hemmed in on all sides and had nowhere to go. He tried, but it didn't work.

Either way, the Powers that Be have to decide what to do. To give Lowndes the Championship means they'll be accused of favouritism, and Kelly's crew will certainly launch an appeal. But to give it to Kelly means they're admitting they go it wrong when they penalised Rick the first time. So which is the lesser of two evils? Personally, I think it should go Lowndes' way. In some small way, giving the title to Kelly is admitting CAMS is not infallible when it comes to the rules. But Lowndes was also the underdog for the entire weekend. Two drivers deliberately blocked him with a view to influencing a championship they were no longer in the running for; even if they claim tyre wear or whatever, the adjudicators' pulled them up on it, which was basically saying they were guilty. In short, two drivers from sister teams held Lowndes up, which makes it look as if they were conspiring by running on team orders. If, for example, Murphy or McConville were in the place of Skaife yesterday, it wouldn't be that way. While they may want Holden to win and while Murphy may be hot-headed and arrogant at the best of times, I highly doubt either of them would attempt blocking. Even when he's no longer in the running for the championship, Murphy races as if he is still in the hunt. Lowndes was the only Ford for miles; the only other was Mark Winterbotom, who wouldn't have blocked because FPV and Triple Eight were in contention for second and third in the teams' championship. Winterbottom was also in the hunt, though it would have taken bad results for both Kelly and Lowndes in all three races for him to that the crown. Kudos also go to Todd Kelly for not doing anything dirty. I gather the two Kellys are close and I know that if I were in Todd's position and my brother in Rick's going into the final round, I'd want my brother to win the title without any questionable help on-track.

So at the end of the day, it's half-racing, half-political, but I still think it should be Lowndes. Kelly should have played it safe and simply pressured Lowndes. This was a 31-lap race; aggressive moves on the second or third (whichever it was) weren't going to give him a satisfying win. On the political side, it's still Lowndes who should have it. Sure, there will be appeals and backlash from Holden fans (who seem to be the majority until recently, but even now they wield some power), and they've always had the ear of CAMS - back in the mid-1990s, Fords were dominating and CAMS made them shave 10mm from their undercarriage; when Holden started getting the upper hand, they had to take 2mm from their rear wings, which did nothing.

There is, of course, a third option: Kelly is given a penalty that puts him equal with Lowndes for Race 3. That way, the championship would be a dead heat (though I think Lowndes would win by default on a countback), so we would have two champions next year. But then, who would be Number Uno, the Big Cheese, the Main Man? You can't have two cars carrying the same number, and I doubt either would want to go by "01" while the other got "1". Nevertheless, I'm afraid CAMS will settle on Kelly because he only indirectly caused the damage to Craig's car. By rights, Craig Lowndes should be the V8 Supercar Champion for 2006, but I doubt that will happen.

Now, that's my essay written. You turn.

(Cat, make sure you read evetrything I'fve written this time. After all, you are my main audience ...)
 

Cape

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Really, I don't know what to think of what happened between Lowndes and Pip Squeak. I'm am very very tempted to say that Rick delibility took Lowndes off the road. It was obvious at the beginning of race 3 that something was going to happen, when was it Rusty? said that Tom told Rick that they don't need the car next year, just win the championship. And he does have a history of knocking people off the road before.

The two races today were the absolute worst team orders / team playing I have seen in V8 supercars since I started watching in 2001. Todd has said on many occassions before, most notably from about Indy / Tasmania on wards, that he would help his brother to win the title; Skaife did let Kelly through easily after his usual bad start; and don't even get me started on the blocking from Tander during race two! And poor Lowndes was the only Ford within striking range of the HRT / HSV roadblocks; Winterbottom wasn't going to give Lowndes any favours (btw congrats to him for driving excellently all weekend, didn't put a tyre wrong!)

The way I saw it, in the 2 seconds that I actually watched the race, after getting so frustrated with pip squeak. Is that Todd let just the smallest of margins for Lowndes to have a little nibble up the inside, but not enough to actually pull a move off. Lowndes had a look, and braked. Rick just went in full steam as usual, from the on board there was plenty of time for Rick to react when Lowndes hit the breaks.

Now Davidson was hardly at fault for smashing into Lowndes(which you pointed out); but a direct result of Ricks (as usual pathetic driving); but Kelly, actually I'm going to say both of them (Todd and Rick), did contribute 100% to the accident, which really should not have happened, especially if Rick was not so eager to get past Lowndes ASAP. Rick should have waited until the pit stops and then let his pit crew do the work. Although, after his jammed wheel nut in race 2 and Tander not being near by to help him, he probably wanted to get past ASAP.

Now, I understand that triple 8 are going to appeal the results of the third race. Any updates on that, because I didn't watch the last part of the coverage. What I would like to see is HSV disqualified from the weekend because of their balent cheating / team orders which the IPO said that they will take a very harsh stance on. Ok, they aren't going to get disqualified in a million years, but I can still dream. I doubt any sort of time penalty will effect the championship, Lowndes finished a country mile behind Rick. And I doubt that they will take the appeal any further.

I think very few people will consider Rick as the true champion this season. Similar to Ingall last season (atleast Ingall won a round, unlike Rick this year). He is not worthy of winning this years championship, he has failed to do anything all year. I can not remember out of 13 rounds a champion like drive from him. Unlike say Lowndes at Bathurst. Lowndes at Sandown. And thats just two that instantly spring to mind!

So congrats to the 2006 champion, who can't win without the help of his Brother, his brothers team mate and his own team mate. And can't beat people in a fair race, so they have to smash them off the road :rolleyes:

Did they actually give Rick the trophy? I thought that they generally give them to the championship winner at the Gala dinner, which is tomorrow night?

ObjectsInSpace said:
(Cat, make sure you read evetrything I'fve written this time. After all, you are my main audience ...)
I feel special now :D
Better this time. You have no idea how long it took me to read and type all this. Exclude dinner time from that :p
 

ObjectsInSpace

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

Shame, Holden, shame.

Typical fan attitude: the Commodore drivers can do no wrong, despite the fact that the four cars of the series' two sister teams used questionable tactics against the leading Ford driver all weekend (Skaife at the Hayshed, Tander twice during Race 2 and then the Kelly brotehrs down at the hairpin). Who cares how they win, jsut so long as they come number one.

Fucking disgusting, and unAustralian.

Get fucked Holden, you proved your worth this weekend.
 

ObjectsInSpace

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If you check out YouTube (no link, sorry), there's a video showing the reply with a side-on shot from the chase helicopter and then Rick's in-car footage. If you watch closely, Lowndes gains on Todd very quickly until Rick taps him and the spin occurs before it cuts to the in-car footage. Todd is nowhere to be seen as Craig is in the way, but when we do see him, something very interesting is happening:

Todd Kelly is not braking.

In fact, he doesn't brake until halfway around the hairpin. Replay the footage and use Winterbottom's car in fourth as a guide and you'll see that Todd Kelly isn't racing, he's luring Craig into having a go and is probably planning to cut him off, thus giving his brither a better shot at Lowndes (this plan is subsequently spoiled by Rick hitting Craig). Add Walkinshaw's comments about "not needing the car next year" and something very interesting is happening.

HRT and HSV are the two closest teams in the paddock. And on four separate occasions throughout the weekend, Craig Lowndes encountered trouble that was ruled as unsportsmanlike from them on five occasions:

Incident I: Skaife taps Lowndes through Hayshed in Race 1, sending the Ford off slightly.

Incident II: Skaife later given Bad Sportsmanship flag for blocking.

Incident III: Garth Tander is also given a Bad Sportsmanship flag for the same reason in Race 2.

Incident IV: Tander given a black flag and drive-though penalty for blocking late in Race 2.

Incident V: Kelly hits Lowndes; Todd's lack of braking suggests he was attempting to lure Lowndes in and cut him off (that's not to say Rick's collision was planned or that Todd knew of it if it was).



Your thoughts on this, Chelsea FC? Or are this legitimate if we write it off as a "suspension failure"?
Cape said:
Now, I understand that triple 8 are going to appeal the results of the third race. Any updates on that, because I didn't watch the last part of the coverage. What I would like to see is HSV disqualified from the weekend because of their balent cheating / team orders which the IPO said that they will take a very harsh stance on. Ok, they aren't going to get disqualified in a million years, but I can still dream. I doubt any sort of time penalty will effect the championship, Lowndes finished a country mile behind Rick. And I doubt that they will take the appeal any further.
Triple Eight filed an Incident Reivew, which is basically the first step. They argued that the incident influenced the outcome of the championship because it removed Craig Lowndes from the equation. The Powers that Be will review that decision and take the neccessary steps.

If the outcome is not favourable to the team, they also prepared to appeal the race results, again citing that the incident influenced the series outcome. I don't know if it's possible, but they could also argue that both HSV and HRT deliberately hindered their driver over the course of the weekend, which may add weight to their argument.

I think that if they give it to Lowndes, it will be controversial to say the least. But if they don't, it will be just as bad depending on which camp you're in.
 

Cape

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

ObjectsInSpace said:
Shame, Holden, shame.

Typical fan attitude: the Commodore drivers can do no wrong, despite the fact that the four cars of the series' two sister teams used questionable tactics against the leading Ford driver all weekend (Skaife at the Hayshed, Tander twice during Race 2 and then the Kelly brotehrs down at the hairpin). Who cares how they win, jsut so long as they come number one.

Fucking disgusting, and unAustralian.

Get fucked Holden, you proved your worth this weekend.
I'm just going to nod my head in agreement with you!
:uhhuh: :uhhuh: :uhhuh: :uhhuh: :uhhuh: :uhhuh: :uhhuh:
 

ObjectsInSpace

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

Chelsea FC said:
Well about fucking time. After 3 mother fucking years of seeing those Fords winning, its about Fucking time for fucking sakes Holden won.

Ford is a disgrace. Full of whingers Eg. Ambrose (even though his gone) no1 Ford whinger, then Ingall the cry baby and finally Lowndes who whinges when being blocked.

Well FUCK OFF FORDS!!!

HOLDEN MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO AUSTRALIA.
FORD MEANS NOTHING TO AUSTRALIA.
You know, you're right when you say "Holden Means A Great Deal To Australia" (though I'll take you to trial over that second statement). What do you think that says for Australia when the four drivers who represent the marque behaved on the track the way they did this weekend? They are some of the best drivers in the nation (you have to be to drive a V8 Supercar) and they represent a brand that is not just an Australian icon, but a part of our cultural heritage and national identity. These four drivers conducted themselves in a way that is completely unsportsmanlike, which is a contradiction of the ideology of fair play when it comes to sports. If Rick's as good as his (provisional) title suggests (and failing to win a round doesn't suggest much to begin with), he should have been able to beat Craig Lowndes - admittedly one of the best drivers the country has ever seen - by racing him. And instead of that, he drives like a washed-up German Formula One driver with a suspension failure and an inability to see French-Canadians (not to suggest Lowndes is French-Canadian, I'm simply trying to get a rise out of Cape).

So yes, Holden means a great deal to Australia. But what does it mean when their four most prominent representatives do nothing but resort to questionable and underhanded (at best) tactics all weekend purely to win?
 

Cape

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Well according to the V8 supercar website, the appeal will be heard tomorrow at midday.
http://www.v8supercar.com.au/news/latestnews/newsdisplay.asp?Ind=M&gid=23147480

So Rick could be the second youngest to win the title; the luckiest; and the one who holds the championship for the shortest amount of time!


Now, if they do reverse the decision, and make Lowndes the champion, I don't think thats the way Lowndes would want to win the title. However, at the same time, what happened today with 4 Holdens under one banner playing blockage all weekend, is not the way he would want to loose the title.



Guess we have to wait until tomorrow. Even then, I doubt that they will conclude anything. Rick will probably get a hollow victory :(
 

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

ObjectsInSpace said:
If Rick's as good as his (provisional) title suggests (and failing to win a round doesn't suggest much to begin with), he should have been able to beat Craig Lowndes - admittedly one of the best drivers the country has ever seen - by racing him. And instead of that, he drives like a washed-up German Formula One driver with a suspension failure and an inability to see French-Canadians (not to suggest Lowndes is French-Canadian, I'm simply trying to get a rise out of Cape).
If its anything, when it happened, I said, Rick chucked a Schumi!

Sorry ... not being my usual biting / snappy / defensive Schumacher self lately :)
 

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

Could someone summarise the events of the Phillip Island race? I was only able to view the start of the race before I went out. I was hoping for another Ford win but from what you've already stated, it seems underhanded tactics were employed to prevent such an event occuring. I didn't think they would take it that far though.
 

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

To quote the legendary Peter Brock, it was like this ...

Both Lowndes and Kelly got excellent starts, slipping into third and second ahead of Mark Winterbottom (who started second), with the end result being Lowndes ending up the meat in a Kelly sandwich with Todd in front and Rick behind. First lap was pretty close, and Rick had a go at Craig coming out of the first turn on the second lap, but was forced to concede when they hit the Southern Loop.

Turn 3 is a blisteringly quick left-hander followed by a short straight and then it's hard under brakes for Turn Four, the hairpin. In the replays, Todd Kelly is going a little slow (possibly baiting a trap for Lowndes) and Craig has a go on the run to the hairpin (his car being one of the strongest in the slower sections all weekend) when Rick tapped him. Lowndes picked up speed from it and bounced into Todd, the two of them spinning out. Todd when off and was able to recover in fifth, but Craig was spun around on the track and while a few cars missed him, Alex Davidson was being overtaken as he went around the corner, finishing with a quick trip into Craig's right front tyre.

Rick inherited the lead, but Lowndes was demoted to 15th and quickly started slipping down to 30th and last place. Kelly was given a drive-through for the incident, but it did little for Craig's position; the collision with Davidson had bent the steering arm and while he was still racing, Lowndes was nowhere near the pace as the right-front wheel kept rubbing, forcing him to pit every few laps and effectively removing him from the championship race.

Ultimately, he finished 29th after Ingall retired, while Rick crossed the line in 18th and was awarded the champion's trophy. However, Triple Eight are in the process of filing appeals, so it still could go either way.
 

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BlackDragon said:
Seven have the rights for next years series. Ten did it so well. Seven are going to wreck it i bet.
I think the more pressing issue is the outcome of yesterday's race. Besides, we already know Channel Seven have the rights.
 

ObjectsInSpace

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On what grounds? Have you got a source, because no-one has posted it online yet. Maybe I should go check out Sports Tonight in ten minutes (more like Sports This Afternoon) ...

Racing incident?

Lowndes was in the wrong?

A bribe?



In all honesty, if that's true, it should be a hollow victory for Kelly. But the bastard is like every Holden fan: they can do no wrong.
 
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ObjectsInSpace

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The drive-though penalty is "enough", they said (was third story on Sports tonight). Kelly says that incidents in racing are to be expected and have happened all year, this one "has simply been the only one we wer einvolved in". Lowndes has said that while Kelly might be the Champion in name, he feels that morally he's number one.

Everyone who's a Craig fan, Ford fan or feels Kelly was in the wrong (I know Holden fans who think Craig should have had it, but they're a rare breed), copy my signature. Size 6 font, bold and italic with red "REAL".
 

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Re: Well done Rick Kelly

Well, Chelsea, I hope you're happy: Rick has officially been made number one.

But Kelly will be going into the next season knowing that he won the series in controversial circumstances and that he's got the sinlge most consistent and talented driver in the field looking to take the 2007 crown, with his team-mate and Mark Winterbottom looking to do it as welll, all while he's in a new car.

Spot the odd one out: Geoghegan, Jane, Brock, Beechey, Johnson, Lowndes, Ambrose, Moffat, Skaife, Richards, Kelly. One of them is not a racer. One of them won a chamionship without winning a single round. One of them hasn't hit puberty yet. Guess which one it is. History's always going to remember him for all the wrong reasons because there isn't going to be a next time.

Roll on Adelaide.
 

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