Virginia Tech Shootings (Merged) (2 Viewers)

[ur_inner_child]

Heroes

"I saw your husband still standing there," the student wrote. "He was holding the door closed and looking over his shoulder to make sure everybody else was safe. It was the bravest thing I have ever seen and I will always remember his courage."

Seventy-six-year-old Liviu Librescu was no match for the gym-trained Cho. He was shot five times, dying on his classroom floor, but not before most of his students escaped.

Possible Copycats

Police patrolled public schools in Yuba City and nearby Marysville 65 km north of California's state capital Sacramento after Jeffery Thomas Carney, who officials said had a criminal record, allegedly said he intended to make the mass murders at Virginia Tech ``look mild''.

Local officials say Carney called his pastor at the United Methodist Church and said he was armed with an AK-47 assault rifle, improvised explosive devices and poison and would seek to provoke a confrontation with police to "commit suicide-by-cop''.

"Virginians Stick to Their Guns"

If anything, support for gun ownership has been more evident than calls for stricter controls.

On Wednesday, as mourners left flowers at a memorial, Scott Heldreth, a member of the religious organisation Operation Save America, urged them to realise "the issue isn't guns, it's sin".

 

[lilygirl]

I think the main issue is our society, not the laws regarding gun ownership. I think our society is totally diseased and warped- this guy clearly was mentally unstable, yet no one knew. he was able to continue on his day to day life just like anyone else. Its a real shame that people who are unstable like this can get by without nobody even noticing.
His video has been broadcasted for the general public to see: more evidence of just how fucked our society really is?

 

[Tulipa]

I think the main issue is our society, not the laws regarding gun ownership. I think our society is totally diseased and warped- this guy clearly was mentally unstable, yet no one knew. he was able to continue on his day to day life just like anyone else. Its a real shame that people who are unstable like this can get by without nobody even noticing.
His video has been broadcasted for the general public to see: more evidence of just how fucked our society really is?

Dude. He was forced into a mental institution but left, he refused to talk to anyone, kept to himself, even as a child.

There's only so much you can really do. Still, more could've been done but in this case it seems like there were attempts.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

I for one, don't see what's wrong with people having the right to self-defence and to protect themselves in their own homes.

Upstanding Citizens who have passed background checks and prove no threat to society should have that right. Individuals that want to protect themselves SHOULD have the right to protect themselves.

That assumes that they'd continue to pose no threat to society, that they can be trusted with a tool that brings death so easily, that there's no possibility that something could happen to trigger a breakdown blah blah blah. I really don't see the reason. Sure, if you're a farmer who kills his cows to eat, you can have a gun. If you're a security guard, have a gun while you're at work. Beyond there? There's no real reason beyond a silly interpretation of a law that aimed to have citizens protecting themselves against a corrup government, and really, as noble as that is it's impractical.

It's not like there'd be a fucking mexican stand off, college desks aren't thick enough to take bullets, that shit you see in the movies is just that.

Doubt it. When people are put into a situation where there's some douchebag firing a weapon behind a group of people, unless they're pretty well trained in the matter then they're going to be a danger as well.

The police would only use deadly force when fired upon - They would warn before they shot.

Apparently not. I watch Cops occasionally and don't exactly see cops exersizing the best of restraint. Is cops a good source? No, but it's better than the...nothing that you're using. I also seem to remember that thing last year where those cops fired 50 or so bullets into a car with three unarmed people in there. I'd hate to see how that would have evolved had the shooter, and a few other people at Virginia Tech all had guns.

FFS. So fucking retarded it's not funny.

 

[Tulipa]

I would personally be completely and utterly freaked out of going over there if concealed and carry comes into play more.

With training, isn't it basically making people semi-cops without the uniforms and more extensive training? Plus what if they pull a gun on someone who's not actually doing anything wrong but only seems to be?

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Hey, I'd still like the ability to be able to stand up to a corrupt government, despite the 'lunacy' of such a prospect!

The 'lunacy' refers to the fact that in this day and age, an "armed militia" isn't going to be able to stand up to a corrupt government, at least in the US. After all, that is what the law was structured for, was it not? And if I'm to believe they arguments of the pro-gun zealots out there, the public are going to get their hands on guns if they really want them anyway. At the very least, if that were true, why bother letting 30,000 people die per year from guns in the US for the sake of a useless law?

Training required for concealed carry licenses. Next point!

Lol. There's no way that public training for carrying a gun would prepare anyone to deal with that. Hell, I'd say that most police out on the streets wouldn't know how to deal with a situation like that particularly well. I guess that instead of risking it, we could just...you know...ban 'em.

Cops is designed to be entertaining and action-packed. I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of shots taken that don't make it into post-prod. Cops illuminates the minority.

Oh my yes, but the fact is that the stuff that happens of cops is indeed real. It's not, you know, make believe or anything like that. What I'm saying, is that I don't get your point.

My hypothetical, and it can only ever be that, is that were there another trained individual there with a weapon (be they police or civilian) the tragedy would not have gone to the extent that it did. At least admit that?

I admit that could have potentially happened. What could have also potentially happened would be a lot worse.

 

[Tulipa]

I assume that they'll not just EXECUTE the person, Sarah. They will use the weapon to subdue the person and perform a citizen's arrest. At least, in an idyllic situation, and hell, if you kids are all throwing your negative hypotheticals, aren't I allowed my idyllic hypotheticals!

Yes.

At the same time, I would be shit scared of having certain people with certain mindsets being able to conceal and carry even if they are trained. They can still fuck up badly.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I can negate that postulate by your theory that there would have been 30 people killed were other people armed and able to take the guy down.

Therefore it's kinda moot, dude.

I don't get what you mean? All I mean is that in a situation where 30 people have just been killed, the cops might be over-anxious and kill someone who pulls their gun out to shoot the killer. I don't think this is the most likely scenario, but it's worth noting.

As I explained myself though it's a moot point in many ways because had the cops been there, there would have been no need for another person to pull out a gun anyway. Making the scenario even less likely, down to someone pulling a gun on the shooter without knowing cops are nearby and with the cops being over anxious to get the killer.

 

[bshadrian]

the guys fucked in the head

 

[bshadrian]

what a fuckd cunt

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

what a fuckd cunt

awesome addition. May I subscribe to your newsletter?

 

[circusmind]

With training, isn't it basically making people semi-cops without the uniforms and more extensive training? Plus what if they pull a gun on someone who's not actually doing anything wrong but only seems to be?

It is illegal to run around pointing guns at people without reasonable cause. You'd get done for assault.

 

[lilkiwicutie89]

RIP the ones who died.....

sighs.... poor people...


My sympathy to those families who were affected.

 

[Dave2007]

So many things went wrong.

Sure, you could blame gun control, or how the university itself handled the situation, or the beurocracy of mental classifications.

But in the end the responsibility was with the gunner, and I'm not sure I'm entirely comofortable with his total demonisation without demonising anyone else.

Society had given up on him. No-one liked him or talked to him. No-one appreciated his art, they even tried to stop him writing. In all the papers there are little interviews with people from the college and all say the same thing: a slightly weird, isolated kid, that they didn't feel that comfortable being around. No wonder he felt he had nothing to live for.

I think in our own lives we should look around: that eccentric, friendless kid at school? The military nut talking to himself at the bus stop? Instead of living in our self-obsessed world maybe we should try to reach out. Invite them over. Or try to get them mental help. If people have nothing to live for, they will do crazy things.

In the end the VT massacre wasn't about gun control, security problems, or mental health classifications. Its about people not reaching out to get their fellow man help when they are getting along perfectly fine.

 

[lengy]

I sympathise. It's hard being all alone in the world.

 

[Dave2007]

Exactly: Maybe society should look at how it treats its own people, or how the university reaches out to its students to check how they're going before we start blaming everything from violent movies to poor security.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Society had given up on him. No-one liked him or talked to him. No-one appreciated his art, they even tried to stop him writing. In all the papers there are little interviews with people from the college and all say the same thing: a slightly weird, isolated kid, that they didn't feel that comfortable being around. No wonder he felt he had nothing to live for.

I think in our own lives we should look around: that eccentric, friendless kid at school? The military nut talking to himself at the bus stop? Instead of living in our self-obsessed world maybe we should try to reach out. Invite them over. Or try to get them mental help. If people have nothing to live for, they will do crazy things.

In the end the VT massacre wasn't about gun control, security problems, or mental health classifications. Its about people not reaching out to get their fellow man help when they are getting along perfectly fine.

...

 

[MaNiElla]

i think due to safety fears you need to ask all the international students if their Korean and what out for their desire to be like Jesus

just because some cracked korean person killed a bunch of people so he can be like jesus, doesnt really mean that all koreans will do the same

that guy was seriuosly disturbed according to http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21582923-2,00.html

he used to harrass and stalk students at his school, and he used to write all these troubled poems

 

[bazookajoe]

I think in our own lives we should look around: that eccentric, friendless kid at school? The military nut talking to himself at the bus stop? Instead of living in our self-obsessed world maybe we should try to reach out. Invite them over. Or try to get them mental help. If people have nothing to live for, they will do crazy things.

He refused mental help of any kind

 

[MaNiElla]

So many things went wrong.

Sure, you could blame gun control, or how the university itself handled the situation, or the beurocracy of mental classifications.

But in the end the responsibility was with the gunner, and I'm not sure I'm entirely comofortable with his total demonisation without demonising anyone else.

Society had given up on him. No-one liked him or talked to him. No-one appreciated his art, they even tried to stop him writing. In all the papers there are little interviews with people from the college and all say the same thing: a slightly weird, isolated kid, that they didn't feel that comfortable being around. No wonder he felt he had nothing to live for.

I think in our own lives we should look around: that eccentric, friendless kid at school? The military nut talking to himself at the bus stop? Instead of living in our self-obsessed world maybe we should try to reach out. Invite them over. Or try to get them mental help. If people have nothing to live for, they will do crazy things.

In the end the VT massacre wasn't about gun control, security problems, or mental health classifications. Its about people not reaching out to get their fellow man help when they are getting along perfectly fine.

but that doesnt that mean that he should shoot 32 people :\