VSU Protest Today (4 Viewers)

[Sarah]

don't you think alot of these clubs are kinda exclusive (tho try to appear inclusive) anyway?

Yes there are a lot which are like that but there are also others which try to appeal to a broad range of students. You have to also consider that clubs and societies exists and serve to bring together student who share something in common.

So if by exclusive u mean it's excludes students who aren't interested in that particular theme e.g anime, comedy, well then obviously it's exclusive in that sense.

 

[Korn]

maybe i should clarify, i'd like some1 with intelligence to explain y the analogy isnt valid.

preferably withoutaface or Xayma

Excuse me, what is that meant to mean?

 

[withoutaface]

some people in the VSU camp are so selfish, nuff said, every heard of something of contributing to society.

i'd like somebody in the VSU-camp to please, please explain to me WHY the tax analogy isnt valid, instead of just saying "u cant compare it to tax"

edit: why we have these arguments, i'll never know, nobody is going to change any1's mind.

i'm always going to support compulsury unionism (not just student unionism either, i think any1 employed should be a union member as well)

Tax:
1. Is calculated according to income, those who can afford to contribute more contribute more, those who can afford to contribute nothing contribute nothing.
2. Is paid progressively over a yearly period, so there's no mad rush having to collect $x.
3. Provides absolutely essential services such as Hospitals, Police, etc, and also provides very little for what are seen as recreational or optional services, such things being left at the discretion of the individual taxpayer if they want to pay for themselves.

 

[townie]

Tax:
1. Is calculated according to income, those who can afford to contribute more contribute more, those who can afford to contribute nothing contribute nothing.
2. Is paid progressively over a yearly period, so there's no mad rush having to collect $x.
3. Provides absolutely essential services such as Hospitals, Police, etc, and also provides very little for what are seen as recreational or optional services, such things being left at the discretion of the individual taxpayer if they want to pay for themselves.

okay, i see where ur coming from. i dont think u could every fully achieve 3 at uni, but a lot of money in government is spent on welfare, but say 1 and 2 were fulfilled in terms of union fee's (which i think they should be). would the tax argument then be valid, or at least more so?

 

[Korn]

okay, i see where ur coming from. i dont think u could every fully achieve 3 at uni, but a lot of money in government is spent on welfare, but say 1 and 2 were fulfilled in terms of union fee's (which i think they should be). would the tax argument then be valid, or at least more so?

Well yes it would be more valid

 

[Riewe]

Tax:
1. Is calculated according to income, those who can afford to contribute more contribute more, those who can afford to contribute nothing contribute nothing.
2. Is paid progressively over a yearly period, so there's no mad rush having to collect $x.
3. Provides absolutely essential services such as Hospitals, Police, etc, and also provides very little for what are seen as recreational or optional services, such things being left at the discretion of the individual taxpayer if they want to pay for themselves.

That is exactly what i was thinking but didn't know how to put it.

And also with the tax, EVERYONE benefits from it one way or another, as everyone uses roads or public transport, utilities, waste disposal services, security, health, education (especially uni education), but with the student union, i pay for services i don't use and have no intention of using. So the tax analogy is obsolete.

 

[withoutaface]

okay, i see where ur coming from. i dont think u could every fully achieve 3 at uni, but a lot of money in government is spent on welfare, but say 1 and 2 were fulfilled in terms of union fee's (which i think they should be). would the tax argument then be valid, or at least more so?

It would be more valid, yes, because you would remove the pressure upon people who can't afford the fees.
EDIT: I think on the scale of a student union, though, you'd obviously need to place some kind of a cap on how much you could be forced to contribute, because if someone was working full time while doing uni, they could end up paying 2-3k in union fees which would be rather ridiculous.
Overall making 1 valid on the scale of a union wouldn't work though, imo, because it'd be too difficult to decide whether to calculate it using the students income, or if they have rich parents maybe they're funding it, etc.

 

[withoutaface]

wtf, thats weird was it only for chicks or something

No, but the union interpreted it that way.

 

[townie]

It would be more valid, yes, because you would remove the pressure upon people who can't afford the fees.
EDIT: I think on the scale of a student union, though, you'd obviously need to place some kind of a cap on how much you could be forced to contribute, because if someone was working full time while doing uni, they could end up paying 2-3k in union fees which would be rather ridiculous.
Overall making 1 valid on the scale of a union wouldn't work though, imo, because it'd be too difficult to decide whether to calculate it using the students income, or if they have rich parents maybe they're funding it, etc.

Well, i think a usefull way to work it out would be Youth Allowance. i.e. if ur not getting Youth Allowance/not elligible for it, u pay the top rate. if u are, well then u pay less the more Y.A. u get. not perfect, but i think it's a good way 2 work it out.

 

[Korn]

Well, i think a usefull way to work it out would be Youth Allowance. i.e. if ur not getting Youth Allowance/not elligible for it, u pay the top rate. if u are, well then u pay less the more Y.A. u get. not perfect, but i think it's a good way 2 work it out.

And im the dumb fuck, what about those ppl whose parents earn more then the threshold but have higher mortgage or wont pay the fees & the student cant afford it and doesnt have an income

 

[spin spin sugar]

Are you telling me that 94% of USU supporters (the minimum number for them to break even with VSUers) wouldn't attend a protest even when there's free food, bands and comedians being provided, especially when it's being held on the front lawns of their uni?

well actually, i cared a lot, and didnt end up going. because i had to work. and i wasn't at uni today. plenty of people wou;ld have agreed with the stance but were just too lazy to go, particularly if they're not at uni on thursdays, as bad as it sounds

Exactly. Unfortunately, it would seem campus culture is of little relevance to 1st yr'ers, especially those who go to under-funded universities where uni socialisation is fairly minimal through lack of societies and clubs, and general socialisation is fairly unusual unless it be via the internet. Hi Not-That-Bright!

yeah, although i dont want to continue the bitchier tone of this post NTB, i finally understand your stance on VSU- uws definitely has a shit union and im sure i could study there without utilising any of the services either. if you spent a semester at usyd actively involved in campus life, you'd realise how fantastic unions can be

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Ok, so maybe uws should lose its union.

 

[spin spin sugar]

for some reason i thought you were at UTS, weird

 

[withoutaface]

well actually, i cared a lot, and didnt end up going. because i had to work. and i wasn't at uni today. plenty of people wou;ld have agreed with the stance but were just too lazy to go, particularly if they're not at uni on thursdays, as bad as it sounds

I'm not saying situations such as that don't exist, I'm just finding it hard to believe that 94% of USU supporters would be in them.

 

[spin spin sugar]

I'm not saying situations such as that don't exist, I'm just finding it hard to believe that 94% of USU supporters would be in them.

please my dear, NEVER underestimate the laziness of your average uni student

 

[Generator]

Much like an emergency government service (or the health system), you will only rue the SRC's (or a fully functional USU system) absence when you need it most. Oh well, who needs representation, right?

 

[Riewe]

Much like an emergency government service (or the health system), you will only rue the SRC's (or a fully functional USU system) absence when you need it most. Oh well, who needs representation, right?

Exactly, who does? Not me.

 

[Generator]

Exactly, who does? Not me.

True citisen here, folks.

 

[spin spin sugar]

<33 gennie

 

[Rorix]

This is from USYD union:
Academic Dress Hire - Has no potental to be profitable, most likely
The ACCESS Centre - Don't know what this is
Amenities - ...
Arcade Games - profitable
Art Gallery & Sculpture Terrace - not the most popular hang outs at uni, at least it decorates the wall between the lift and pool
Art, Photo and Literature Prizes - would go
Arts Festival - would most likely go unless people are willing to pay [not likely]
Audio Visual Facilities - afaik provided by university anyway
Australian Discussion Groups for International Students - never seen this to be too popular, all the international students i know well (6) like to practice their English with good English speakers
Badge Making - oh dear dont take the badge making
Band Comp - probably makes money through alcohol sales
Beachball - oh no we'll have to charge for a party which is overcrowded and ends up locking people out anyway
Beige Pages (clubs and societies list) - costs almost nothing to maintain if it has any use
Campus Stores - profitable
Catering Discounts - can be profitable
Catering Outlets - can be profitable
Childcare - will go, one of the things that people should actually be arguing against VSU but the average person doesnt care
Clubs & Societies - can easily be afforded under fixed income if the union cared about maintaining it, also the gap can be filled through increased sponsorship
Condiments - are you kidding me
Coffee Carts - again, can be profitable, havent seen these around uni anyway
Coffee Card - see above
Committees & other Advisory Structures - should be volunteer work anyway
Competitions - what exactly is in this? Is this like that 'drop in your coupon, 2 outta 40,000 people get their 600 back?' If so, yes, that will go
Concerts - already covered in other sections, can be charged thru admission/bands playing free for promotions/alcohol sales
CONTACT Information Desks and Referral Services - don't know what this involves
Convenor Positions - see above
The Cubby - are you kidding me this is the biggest no brainer profit item
Cultural Diversity Journal - don't know what this involves
Creative Grants - don't know what this involves but it sounds useless
Debates - debates do not cost money
Dedicated Spaces for students - the campus is a dedicated space for students
Disability Services - would have to be supplied by uni anyway under law afaik
Discount Tickets - this is the same shit mentioned elsewhere
DJ Comp - again, makes money through alcohol
Employment - this needs some free market forces anyway, dudes treat you like shit because their jobs are too secure
Environmental Expressions Competitions - see competitions
Environment Handbook - ???
Equipment Hire Scheme - hire=revenue
Faxing - Yeah, ill probably have to pay to fax...can't be a big union expense
Film Program - admission+food sales
Food - mentioned elsewhere, makes money
Free Lunchtime Gigs - food sales, promotional play
Free Film Program - see above
Free Publications - no-one would read these if they werent free
Giveaways - you have to be kidding me
Graduands’ Handbook - yeah ok
Graduation Services & Academic Dress - yup
Holme Building - makes money through rent, are you kidding me
Information Day Entertainment and Catering - sounds profitable
International Students Room - ALWAYS ALWAYS EMPTY LOLOLOL
International Recipe Competition - uh yes.
Justices of the Peace - dunno what this is
Leadership and Excellence Awards - haven't I seen this before?
Letterbox Hire - hire=revenue
Life Membership - wtf lolol
Locker Hire - hire=revenue
Lounges - costs little to nothing to maintain
Manning Bar - profitable
Manning Building - profitable
Member Card - hahaha
Member Discounts - hahaha
Microwaves - fair enough, those electricity bills are through the roof
Movie Money - OK
Noticeboards - uni students have no trouble vandalising footpaths anyway
Off-Campus Cultural Events - ????
O-Week - ok
Photocopying - ok (wheres the free photocopying anyway?)
Pool Tables - MAKES MONEY DUHHH
Prizes - ??
Queer Space/Resource Room - yup
Random acts of Kindness - uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Reading areas - wow sounds expensive to maintain.......library anyone?
Recreational Space - yeah its not like usyd doesn't have enough grass
Retail Services - makes money
Revues - volunteer work mainly
Room Hire - hire=revenue
School Tutoring Program - volunteer work
Sir Hermann Black Gallery & Sculpture Terrace - already mentioned
Skills and Leisure Courses - fair enough
Snowball - see beachball
Sound Space - dunno what this is
Student Diary - i have used 8 diaries, they should be charged for to stop such abuse (or cram them with ads, which they have a lot of random content anyway)
Student DJ Sessions - free
Student Editor Positions - free
Student Point Of Contact (SPOC) Program - dunno what this is
Support Services - already mentioned
Sydney Uni Live Entertainment and Catering - can be profitable
Table Tennis - no brainer profitable
Tangent - dunno waht this is
Tax Help - fair enough
Theatresports® - makes money through alcohol sales
The Bull - see publications
The Venue Collection - dunno what this is
Toilets - uh ok fair enough
Trivia Competition -
T-shirt Printing - the uni needs less FUCK OFF LIBERAL SCUM shirts anyway
UBS - Media School - dunno what this is
Union Recorder - dunno what this is
Volunteering Programs - volunteer...?
Volunteer of the Year Awards - something tells me volunteers don't do it for the money
Websites www.usydunion.com and www.manningbar.com - not very expensive
Wentworth Bar - profitable
Wentworth Building - profitable
Women’s Resource Room/Library - costs little to maintain and is sexist anyway
Women’s Words Competition - sounds sexist
Year 10 Mentoring Programme - uh ok never heard of this one

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