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Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extension 2? (2 Viewers)

YO!

  • ME2

    Votes: 245 60.3%
  • EE2

    Votes: 104 25.6%
  • Neither - It's a silly question

    Votes: 57 14.0%

  • Total voters
    406

Razzah

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Bobness said:
Higher quality in this case, refers to (as i have outlined earlier) the smaller candidature that undertakes EE2 - in this way the definition supports EE2 as arousing "such respect or admiration" (ibid) because this respect is distributed across a smaller no. of students.
Gonna have to disagree there. I certainly don't think that there is anything to suggest that lower candidature = higher quality and respect isn't 'distributed across a smaller no. of students', its not like some sort of spreadable where, because there is less bread, there is more per bread. Sorry to analogize, haha.
 

Bobness

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Razzah said:
Gonna have to disagree there. I certainly don't think that there is anything to suggest that lower candidature = higher quality and respect isn't 'distributed across a smaller no. of students', its not like some sort of spreadable where, because there is less bread, there is more per bread. Sorry to analogize, haha.
Ok i should rephrase that then.

Lower candidature means that it is 'more difficult' to get into EE2. I understand (and have seen it happen in 4 separate cases in high schools across NSW) the fact that EE2 students don't always do the best in Advanced, but generally there is a strict process of allowing students to study the rigorous course at the end of Year 11 (more so, from what i've seen, than MX2).

And yeah, i only used the 'distributed' analogy to start with, because i thought others were being a bit hyperbolic with their fixation on statistics that do not really extrapolate a general result of perceptions across the state.

I think it's excellent that MX2 is so 'prestigious' despite its large candidature. I mean if 60 000 students studied say Latin Extension, no one could call it prestigious anymore hey?

edit: and as i earlier mentioned, i pretty much agree with most of your points, i just think there's another side you sometimes (strategically :p) overlook
 

Bobness

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

3unitz said:
bobness, bobness, bobness... back again i see. before i sift through another page of waffle, i just want to point out that whatever they teach you down in the ARTS buildings isnt going to work with me. because you know what bobness? i dont fear your page long essays. i dont fear your little thesaurus-hands. and i certainly dont fear your little english/law student fagsig.
Ad hominem once again. I have never made references to your engineering background, which to be frank (even though i'm Bob) has far more debilitating stereotypes.


3unitz said:
smaller cohort, and lower marks? how does this relate to prestige again? people wouldnt give a shit if basketweaving studies had a smaller cohort and was harder to get marks in, it would get laughed at (like how people are laughing at your attempts). no, bobness, prestige is a reputation, it needs to be earned. here, some more definitions for you to learn:

"reputation or influence arising from success, achievement, rank or other favourable attributes"

"the quality of how good the reputation of something or someone is, how favourable something or someone is regarded"
(this ones straight from wiki i.e. the ultimate source)

so you can try and basketweave your way out of it with your big fancy words, and your trickery, but we all know youre just a big fat deceiver. a coward hiding behind his vocabulary and laptop (same laptop which you take to your law lectures to look important).

so lets go back to these definitions (now you can reject these definitions if you wish, i wont be surprised since i know youre cunning like a snake - simile intended). prestige... a reputation... how favourable something is regarded... well i guess i can see how youre trying to twist your "smaller candidature" argument to support the courses prestige, but anyone with half a brain can come up with thousands of equally pathetic points. "maths is more prestigious because you have to sit a hard three hour exam and prove yourself within that time period", "maths is more prestigious, even some universities recognise its prestige and difficulty, by awarding extra uai points for undertaking ext 2, and applying for engineering and sciences". blah blah blah, /waffle. no bobness, prestige is a reputation earned from the masses, earned through rock solid achievement (check out what the masses have to say in this poll, bobness). MX2's achievement clearly comes from the way students cower at its superiorty and difficultly.
You raised some good points overall here, but i sincerely believe that you jump from one generalisation to the next, without considering the implications of your statements. Not only do you (let's twist it the way you have already) used hyperbole and reductive analogies, but you repeat the same point i refuted earlier in this thread. That is, the validity of an internet poll, without listing your reasons why it would be anything less than accurate.

Just to play the reverse side of devil's advocate, you could argue that it is accurate to an extent as it is taken from a student community forum which is a cross section of the HSC cohort, or that because the sample size is 3 digits, the reliability is enhanced. That is what i mean by 'proving' your argument, rather than simply asserting
more people do it because they like its prestige.
Anywho, it's been a long day, and i think (if you did read through and properly deconstruct the nuances of my earlier post/s) that we agree on many points - that is MX2 is prestigious, i have not actually denied this explicitly in any posts. Again, i just wanted to show how EE2 can also be 'prestigious' if your general thinking before undertaking it is conducive to expanding your poetntials (purposely-misspelt) in the field. After all, aren't those who have gone on to be included in the Young Writer's Showcase, or graduate with first class honours in English worthy of 'prestige'?
3unitz said:
i have been joking bobness. dont hate me, i think youre awesome cause you chess <3
Yeah, so have i in parts (the heavy satire, sarcasm and irony should have been obvious!) and i know you're a good guy because of all the help you've offered in your free time across the mathematics and physics forums. That hasn't escaped me, and certainly hasn't escaped the 2008ers. Best of luck with the rest of your uni academic and social life, and see you at the roundhouse ;)
 

conics2008

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

me2 hands down.. f u all.
 

cheney31

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

3unitz said:
classic english student waffle. perhaps you should have looked up some definitions of 'prestige' before you typed that essay, bobness (aka fag).



prestige... its not about which one you think is more prestigious, its all about widespread respect and admiraton. just check out the poll results bobness, widespread respect winning it for MX2. more people clearly feel it has a higher quality (probably because it doesnt contain subjective dribble) hence it is more prestigious from definition.

Q.E.D.

or should i say checkmate?
Bobness said:
Oh i'm going to love correcting the misconceptions.





While i agree with both your comments that English (in particular standard) has increasingly become shall we say 'more reductive', i believe part of the reason for this can be traced to two things.

The first is that english is compulsory for all students: as a result there will inevitably be a backlash from the community, particularly immigrant families, as there is a perceived sense of 'prejudice' that has only been exaggerated by mass media. In answer to this, every developed nation with a strong educational system i know of (USA, UK et al) has english or the national language (ie French literature in France - correct me if i'm wrong, as i took this from the semi-reliable wiki site) as a compulsory program. So while analysing cereal boxes at texts, may appear base to literature aficionados, it does broaden the perspectives of others who may later appreciate / gain an understanding of for eg the 'powerplay' of advertisements (module c adv) or the propagation of 'images' (module a standard).

The second is that, as a result of its compulsory status, many students then lose interest in appreciating the intrinsic beauty of literature forcing teachers to encourage 'reductive' strategies of extracting any and all meaning from texts. They must do this, as it is the only way students will come to understand how text a speaks of issue b in society c. It gives the students a way of exercising their skills in coming up with an individual response that meshes syllabus understandings with philosophical (personal) insights.

While English (esp standard) does cater for the lowest common denominator, and alienates those of us looking on in horror as texts are now metaphorically strapped to chairs to have all meaning 'beaten' out of them, it at least means that elevated literature such as Shakespeare, drama and poetry are accessible to those who would not have picked it up otherwise.

And for those of us (like Zephyrio) who are strong English students with a passion that transcends the confines of the subject rubrics, then it provides further inspiration to continue with English studies at university. As the idiom goes: "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and being deprived of a suitable outlet in the HSC context can definitely inspire you to delve into postcolonial and formalist criticism in a rigorous academic tertiary-level context. The enthusiastic student cohorts (at UNSW, and from all accounts, USYD as well) foster a lifelong ambition in the field :D I am actually indebted to the idiosyncratic concerns of HSC English Advanced and Extension, for without its limited focus i would not have seriously considered undertaking transcendental literature studies as a degree :D:D

***

In answer to OP's question, English Extension Two is far more prestigious. It is undertaken by a smaller student cohort ('prestige' is normally defined in economic / social / political terms as being restricted to a 'top tier' ie the most 'prestigious' universities in the world are the most difficult to enter) and while the percentage of E4s is pretty even between the two subjects, due to the inherent scaling and aligning, it is far more difficult to score a 'higher' mark in EE2 (that counts towards one's UAI) than MX2.

In any case, those who undertake MX2 (without a background in EE2) will find it difficult to develop a cogent argument that effectively supports their subjective viewpoint in relation to 'prestige' so i would argue that this thread is fairly discriminatory :p Maybe all posters must incorporate a graph and complex numbers to make their point?

i* for one would be in support.






*Lulz, cwotididthar?

I LOL at you two... this is the classic distinction between the tone of an english and a math student.....:p
 

beve

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

can't believe i read this whole thread at near 2am...

comparing a humanities based subject to a science is really pointless. and respect to that english guy that wowed us all with his epic vocabulary... but dude, you just wasted your time typing it.

but to use an english concept: context..

those able in mathematics will prefer said subject to something like english that isnt natural to them. and vice versa for an able english student. therefore, an argument about which is "better" or which is "more prestigious" is going to come down to personal preference; experience in said subjects and relationships with teachers and all sorts of other things. theres not a whole lot of point in trying to make an objective statement about a subjective topic...

now please kiddies.. dont eat eachother
 

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

beve said:
can't believe i read this whole thread at near 2am...

comparing a humanities based subject to a science is really pointless. and respect to that english guy that wowed us all with his epic vocabulary... but dude, you just wasted your time typing it.

but to use an english concept: context..

those able in mathematics will prefer said subject to something like english that isnt natural to them. and vice versa for an able english student. therefore, an argument about which is "better" or which is "more prestigious" is going to come down to personal preference; experience in said subjects and relationships with teachers and all sorts of other things. theres not a whole lot of point in trying to make an objective statement about a subjective topic...

now please kiddies.. dont eat eachother
Wow, believe it or not, i mentioned this (or its close substitutes) many times in my posts, and this has already been covered in the thread extensively.

Also, I don't think any of us were trying to 'eat each other'. Unless 3unitz comes back tomorrow with a deliberately rabid piece, the two sides have pretty much agreed to disagree. Even if (some) MX2 supporters do not acknowledge the status of EE2, i definitely (still) hold a lot of respect for those who undertake such a challenging maths course.

I don't know why others are so narrow-minded in looking at 'vocabulary' one may or may not use. The real issue is cogent argument construction, and even MX2ers (3unitz in his recent posts, u-borat, lyounamu) possess such abilities. Just like how those who excel in humanities can still be logical for eg in IQ or other standardised tests.
 

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So far, an overwhelming majority of people believe that MX2 is more "prestigious" than EX2, with 60%.

Those who believe EX2 is more "prestigious" tally to 23%, and those who really don't give a fuck tally to 17%.

Let's see how this poll pans out. :)
 
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u-borat

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Bobness said:
Wow, believe it or not, i mentioned this (or its close substitutes) many times in my posts, and this has already been covered in the thread extensively.

Also, I don't think any of us were trying to 'eat each other'. Unless 3unitz comes back tomorrow with a deliberately rabid piece, the two sides have pretty much agreed to disagree. Even if (some) MX2 supporters do not acknowledge the status of EE2, i definitely (still) hold a lot of respect for those who undertake such a challenging maths course.

I don't know why others are so narrow-minded in looking at 'vocabulary' one may or may not use. The real issue is cogent argument construction, and even MX2ers (3unitz in his recent posts, u-borat, lyounamu) possess such abilities. Just like how those who excel in humanities can still be logical for eg in IQ or other standardised tests.
I do have a shoe in both camps, you know. :uhhuh:
 

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i believe 4u maths scales a lot higher unfortunately.
 

Continuum

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Last time I checked, Cosmology scaled abit lower than Extension 2 Maths. But would you say that Cosmology has less prestige? :p
 

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Continuum said:
Last time I checked, Cosmology scaled abit lower than Extension 2 Maths. But would you say that Cosmology has less prestige? :p

err... yes?

Eng Std
Bus Studies
SOR
IPT
Cosmo

or

Eng Std
Bus Studies
IPT
Maths EXT 2

I know what I'm gonna pick.
 

Continuum

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

runnable said:
err... yes?

Eng Std
Bus Studies
SOR
IPT
Cosmo

or

Eng Std
Bus Studies
IPT
Maths EXT 2

I know what I'm gonna pick.
LOL.

Obviously you're gonna pick the second option. Why? It's because the first one doesn't even exist. When you're doing a distinction course such as Cosmology, you need to do 10 units without including the distinction course. Not to mention you have no chance in it if you're just doing Standard English.

Atleast make your response reasonable. You might think it proves a point but it doesn't if I can just discard it like that.
 

midifile

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

runnable said:
Oh my... :hammer: Maybe you should go on and do Year 12 English before you post on a HSC 08 forum.
Since when was this an HSC 08 forum? Apart from being a forum for students yrs 10-12 + uni students + VCE student + other, this thread is not in a subforum for any particular year group but rather the school section. Last time I checked, year 11 was part of school.

I actually think that people who aren't in year 12 or havent done year 12 yet have the most valid opinions, because their opinions lack the bias that the year 12's do. Of course a lot of people who do ee2 will think it is more prestiege, because they want to it be, and vice versa.

And I can't talk, because I did vote maths ext 2, but then after reading all the posts I want to change my vote to "it is a silly question" because it is.

Really, this thread is stupid. The 'prestige of a subject' depends on the individual who is viewing that subject in question.
 
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Razzah

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

midifile said:
Since when was this an HSC 08 forum? Apart from being a forum for students yrs 10-12 + uni students + VCE student + other, this thread is not in a subforum for any particular year group but rather the school section. Last time I checked, year 11 was part of school.

I actually think that people who aren't in year 12 or havent done year 12 yet have the most valid opinions, because their opinions lack the bias that the year 12's do. Of course a lot of people who do ee2 will think it is more prestiege, because they want to it be, and vice versa.

And I can't talk, because I did vote maths ext 2, but then after reading all the posts I want to change my vote to "it is a silly question" because it is.

Really, this thread is stupid. The 'prestige of a subject' depends on the individual who is viewing that subject in question.
Bored of Studies > Secondary Education > New South Wales (HSC) > General > School <!-- google_ad_section_start --> Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extension 2?
 

runnable

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Continuum said:
LOL.

Obviously you're gonna pick the second option. Why? It's because the first one doesn't even exist. When you're doing a distinction course such as Cosmology, you need to do 10 units without including the distinction course. Not to mention you have no chance in it if you're just doing Standard English.

Atleast make your response reasonable. You might think it proves a point but it doesn't if I can just discard it like that.
Thanks. But thats the rough idea. Add Bio to option A to make you happy.
 

midifile

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Razzah said:
Bored of Studies > Secondary Education > New South Wales (HSC) > General > School <!-- google_ad_section_start --> Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extension 2?
Your point being?

Oh.. and btw, I love how you highlighted NEW SOUTH WALES (HSC), when you are clearly from Canberra.
 
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runnable

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

How come Canberra also gets the UAI when they derive it differently. Not fair IMO if they don't get the final stress of HSC exams but still get the UAI. (or do they note this on the UAI notification).
 

Razzah

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

midifile said:
Your point being?

Oh.. and btw, I love how you highlighted NEW SOUTH WALES (HSC), when you are clearly from Canberra.
Yeah, except that my school is the only one in Canberra that does the HSC.

Runnable, I completely agree, we get compared with all the schools here but none of them have to do the HSC. The ACT system is A LOT easier, you can customize your subjects TOTALLY and they don't have to deal with major exams.
 

Razzah

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Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

midifile said:
Since when was this an HSC 08 forum? Apart from being a forum for students yrs 10-12 + uni students + VCE student + other
Just highlighting the fact that this is a HSC forum...
 

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