Does God exist? (17 Viewers)

[Sy123]

your irreducibly complex design is not irreducibly complex

What?

From a scientific perspective we must come from insurmountable odds to produce anything. To say this came through by chance defies Occam's razor.

I mean, why do you think that laughable theories such as "our universe is a simulation" (with no evidence) are starting to erupt?

 

[Graney]

There is a consensus among biologists that prokaryotes came into existence by abiogenesis. 'The Miller–Urey experiment and similar experiments demonstrated that most amino acids , often called "the building blocks of life", can be racemically synthesized in conditions intended to be similar to those of the early Earth .'

 

[Absolutezero]

What?

From a scientific perspective we must come from insurmountable odds to produce anything. To say this came through by chance defies Occam's razor.

I mean, why do you think that laughable theories such as "our universe is a simulation" (with no evidence) are starting to erupt?

low chance > no chance

 

[Kiraken]

tbh i find the notion of something coming before God or the big bang kinda nonsensical just cos if the universe is all of time and space, something coming "before" time makes no sense

 

[kaz1]

Polytheism is absurd since it creates a whole host of logical problems so you can cross off Zeus and Thor.
Hinduism is in reality a monotheistic faith that has been distorted over the centuries (strong evidence of monotheism can be found in the very Vedas)

Whether the concept God is called God, Allah, Krishna or whoever, as long as the names cover the essential attributes of God (All-Knowing, All-Powerful and so on) then they are all the same name for the same God.

Indeed it is our human innate disposition to believe in a One Powerful God [here] and [here]
So it is not suprising that so many different names have erupted over history

"And for every nation is a messenger. So when their messenger comes, it will be judged between them in justice, and they will not be wronged" (Surah Yunus 10:47)

I guess those uncontacted native American tribes in the Amazon also have had a messenger also the Aboriginals. So sad that they are all burning in purgatory now.

The Quran is pretty fun, reading the Quran for the first time started the inevitable path for me leaving Islam.

 

[Sy123]

There is a consensus among biologists that prokaryotes came into existence by abiogenesis. 'The*Miller–Urey experiment *and similar experiments demonstrated that most*amino acids , often called "the building blocks of life", can beracemically *synthesized in conditions intended to be similar to those of the*early Earth .'

Miller's experiment is discredited nowadays

Good geological evidence has shown that the chemicals that Miller used in his experiment were not present in the atmosphere at the time
Among the wrong conditions being used.

 

[Graney]

Miller's experiment is discredited nowadays

Good geological evidence has shown that the chemicals that Miller used in his experiment were not present in the atmosphere at the time
Among the wrong conditions being used.

The principle established in the Urey-Miller experiment holds true in repeated experiments under the conditions of the modern understanding of the early earth.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/primordial-soup-urey-miller-evolution-experiment-repeated/

 

[Absolutezero]

I guess those uncontacted native American tribes in the Amazon also have had a messenger also the Aboriginals. So sad that they are all burning in purgatory now.

The Quran is pretty fun, reading the Quran for the first time started the inevitable path for me leaving Islam.

It's like a compact bible.

 

[Sy123]

low chance > no chance

Alright well if you're happy to accept the incredibly mini-scule chance that you had evolved from abiogenesis, that the fine tuning the universe can be a happy coincidence and so on. Then never again will an atheist/agnostic be able to call a theist irrational or crazy

tbh i find the notion of something coming before God or the big bang kinda nonsensical just cos if the universe is all of time and space, something coming "before" time makes no sense

But God is not bound by time so yes there is no time before time but that's why God is timeless and can know the future.

I guess those uncontacted native American tribes in the Amazon also have had a messenger also the Aboriginals. So sad that they are all burning in purgatory now.

The Quran is pretty fun, reading the Quran for the first time started the inevitable path for me leaving Islam.

'burning in purgatory'
says he has read the Quran

Anyway

"Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger." (Surah Al-Isra 17:15)

Aboriginals also have a concept of a creator iirc, some snake
But these corruptions happen to the original message at the time since each message was only meant for a specific time period. And since God is All-Just, He would not judge the unlearned for not knowing what they haven't learned.

I like how you are pretty much skimming everything here and nitpicking

 

[Sy123]

The principle established in the Urey-Miller experiment holds true in repeated experiments under the conditions of the modern understanding of the early earth.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/primordial-soup-urey-miller-evolution-experiment-repeated/

Interesting article, I will have to follow that up.

But in the paper, near the end it admits

But James Ferris, a prebiotic chemist at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y., doubts that atmospheric electricity could have been the only source of organic molecules. "You get a fair amount of amino acids," he says. "What you don't get are things like building blocks of nucleic acids." Meteors, comets or primordial ponds of hydrogen cyanide would still need to provide those molecules.

A large percentage of biologists reject the primordial soup theory and instead go for things like meteors and comets. Its a very similar escape plan to the cosmologist's multiverses. Simply grabbing at any hypothesis to explain something purely naturalistically.

Regardless, the formation of a few amino-acids, we cannot explain how these amino-acids formed themselves into functional proteins, nor does it explain the information present in DNA and RNA

 

[Graney]

Simplest explanation

an unobserved, omnipotent, omniscient, intelligent force that exists outside of all established and observed rules of reality, designed the universe 14 billion years ago, specifically designing this infinitely vast space so that 14 billion years into it's infinitely long existence, a species that will flit out of existence in an infinestimally small portion of the universes existence (likely a few hundred thousand years) would consume, fuck, and kill each other on the surface of this tiny dot depicted here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Pale_Blue_Dot.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Hubble_ultra_deep_field_high_rez_edit1.jpg

Simple and elegant

 

[Absolutezero]

Alright well if you're happy to accept the incredibly mini-scule chance that you had evolved from abiogenesis, that the fine tuning the universe can be a happy coincidence and so on. Then never again will an atheist/agnostic be able to call a theist irrational or crazy

because the universe is so much more complex than a being that has within it the power to make said complex world. a being that defies all natural laws as we know it.

so occam wow

 

[kaz1]

because the universe is so much more complex than a being that has within it the power to make said complex world. a being that defies all natural laws as we know it.

so occam wow

Religious people have to believe in magic for their shit to work. As much as I want magic to be real being a massive Harry Potter fan I know it is bullshit.

God created Adam for clay/dust/sand/whatever
magic

God created Eve from Adam's rib
magic

Noah constructed a massive ark with only 8 people
magic

Two of every species found their way to Noah
magic

Noah manages to store all the food on the arc
magic

None of the Animals eat each other
magic

everyone manages the lack of oxygen and the freezing temperatures 8000m above sea level
magic

a man lives in a whale
magic

a man comes back from the dead
magic

 

[Sy123]

Simplest explanation

an unobserved, omnipotent, omniscient, intelligent force that exists outside of all established and observed rules of reality, designed the universe 14 billion years ago, specifically designing this infinitely vast space so that 14 billion years into it's infinitely long existence, a species that will flit out of existence in an infinestimally small portion of the universes existence (likely a few hundred thousand years) would consume, fuck, and kill each other on the surface of this tiny dot depicted here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Pale_Blue_Dot.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Hubble_ultra_deep_field_high_rez_edit1.jpg

Simple and elegant

Hahahahha

Probably one of the worst arguments against an argument for design, you have literally not touched any of the points made by an argument by design (such as Fine-tuning of initial conditions among the great complexities), and instead tried to argue that the universe is not designed because it looks as though we are insignificant in size.

Yet as far as we know we are the only rational intelligent animals in the universe.

because the universe is so much more complex than a being that has within it the power to make said complex world. a being that defies all natural laws as we know it.

so occam wow

Rather

Design in the universe implies a designer

Combine this with the concept of an uncreated Creator to prevent an infinite regress of past events, and so we must eventually conclude that this designer is some Omnipotent, Intelligent, Powerful designer.

It is not the job of the design argument (or cosmological) alone to describe a precise formula for an Abrahamic God. (Though at this point if you accept the arguments you are at least a theist)

We muster the concept that God since he designed the universe and us inside, He'd send us a message of some sort. Then we analyse the scriptures to try and find an uncorrupted version that supports God most logically, and common-sensically

We find scriptures themselves (other than Islam) predict Prophet Muhammad
We find scriptures of most religions have been distorted
We reject the concept of God coming down in the form of a man due to the logical impossibility and contradiction

We find that the religion that adheres to the above is Islam.

And so I don't say that you can rigorously prove that Islam is the truth purely through axiomatic reasoning

But rather that the probability that God exists and Islam is true is too great to reject

--

Essentially this is what it comes down to, do you have faith in the god of atheism named chance (nor do we use the concept of insurmountable odds in our daily lives), or do you believe in Allah (SWTA).

 

[Queenroot]

My head hurts reading this thread
I'm excited to go to *hell*, most intellectually renowned people await my presence

 

[yasminee96]

The principle established in the Urey-Miller experiment holds true in repeated experiments under the conditions of the modern understanding of the early earth.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/primordial-soup-urey-miller-evolution-experiment-repeated/

http://creation.com/why-the-miller-urey-research-argues-against-abiogenesis
Sure, it's bias because it's an entire website for creationism, but the sources and information are all correct. And I'd researched all this back in prelim bio when I was, too, shocked by how right Urey and Miller's experiment seemed.

 

[Sy123]

My head hurts reading this thread
I'm excited to go to *hell*, most intellectually renowned people await my presence

Lets just ignore the 90% of intellectuals who were people of religion

But I guess the sum of your knowledge is constricted to who Einstien, Sagan and Dawkins were lmao

 

[kaz1]

Essentially this is what it comes down to, do you have faith in the god of atheism named chance (nor do we use the concept of insurmountable odds in our daily lives), or do you believe in Allah (SWTA).

scaring atheists with hell doesn't really work because we kinda sorta don't really believe in hell

also what type of sadistic asshole sends people to be tortured and burned for all of eternity, I don't think even Hitler or Stalin deserves that

 

[kaz1]

Lets just ignore the 90% of intellectuals who were people of religion

But I guess the sum of your knowledge is constricted to who Einstien, Sagan and Dawkins were lmao

since 99% of intellectuals were non-muslim wouldn't they be going to hell anyway?

 

[Sy123]

scaring atheists with hell doesn't really work because we kinda sorta don't really believe in hell

also what type of sadistic asshole sends people to be tortured and burned for all of eternity, I don't think even Hitler or Stalin deserves that

I don't see hell in my post

Anyway it seems that people are literally trying to throw as many of the arguments as they can because all the other petty ones are being refuted easily

God does not judge your beliefs if you haven't heard of the scripture in a pure form, God doesn't judge you if you are ignorant on the truth. If the truth is presented to you and you reject it with full knowledge of it then you are in essence choosing hell. Also to declare certain individuals to go to Hell is not ok in Islam since only Allah knows the true beliefs on the death of an individual. No one can say that "X is going to Hell" since we do not know the situation of X nor do we know his/her beliefs and so on.
Only Allah knows since He is All-Knowing and since He is All-Just, He will deliver whatever is applicable.