Long-un strategies for NUS (yet another VSU thread) (2 Viewers)

[withoutaface]

If i want legal advice I as well as anyone can go to Legal Aid (its free) and what kind of issues could I have with Administration?

You could be accused of plaigarism or something similar.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Cuba has a very visible culture. There was enough culture for Lonely Planet at least, to dedicate an entire episode to the island.

As for Russia, I wouldn't say culture was repressed. The Soviet was a product of Russian culture.



I really dislike you Korn. Walrusbear is putting up a very mildly-left pro-USU argument, a good and constructive one in fact, while you stand on the Liberal field and accuse him of being a communist. You're a disgrace.

If he was accusing Howard and Nelson of being fascists and nazis, then such extreme and ignorant leftism might warrant a Red accusation, but he hasn't, you're blind support for VSU prevents you from even considering his arguments.

Yes cuba has a culture for the visitors etc, however nothing for the people.
People blame their society on the apparently "blockade", stopping them from gaining western products, however in all the hotels etc in cuba u can buy western product

 

[walrusbear]

If i want legal advice I as well as anyone can go to Legal Aid (its free) and what kind of issues could I have with Administration?

perhaps, though the advantage of union legal reps is a perhaps more specialised knowledge in student issues
a whole array of issues can potentially arise
problems with lecturers, tutors, marks, bureaucratic mistakes etc.
the university admin is a big body that essentially doesn't give a shite about the 'individual'
union rep. can assist in sorting out members issues

 

[Korn]

You could be accused of plaigarism or something similar.

Oh, well if u do ur referencing, how could you get accussed of plagarism and isnt there a government body of some sort that you could go to

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Where do I go if my union is corrupt?

 

[Korn]

perhaps, though the advantage of union legal reps is a perhaps more specialised knowledge in student issues
a whole array of issues can potentially arise
problems with lecturers, tutors, marks, bureaucratic mistakes etc.
the university admin is a big body that essentially doesn't give a shite about the 'individual'
union rep. can assist in sorting out members issues

Im not sure if that is true for all uni's however, im sure that Usyd is a lot bigger and thus may require it more then say UWS, CSU, UNCLE, etc

 

[withoutaface]

Where do I go if my union is corrupt?

You vote in the non existant non-corrupt candidate of course

 

[walrusbear]

Where do I go if my union is corrupt?

oh to your government dude! they're sparkling great. totally attuned to your individual needs.

i'm not going to call the union perfect, but that argument has no real substance. union's could definitely undergo some reform and redistribute a lot of funds to be more efficient. the unions still represent students in difficult situations.

 

[leetom]

USU allows:

The existence of social clubs. People don't join clubs because they want to make friends, they join them to engage in a hobby. Having a flourishing University club scene is the central pillar to the University culture.

Pro-VSU students are voicing how apparantly ineffective the Student Union is. They're answer: abolish it.

Not a single thought on how to change the Union, not a single thought on how to make the Union more representative of their interests.

Instead of abolishing the Union and leaving the students with no voice at all-

why not try campaigning for a more effective Union?-

Did this thought not cross the minds of the pro-VSU at all? Or is it just blunt and selfish individualism that drives their allegiance?

 

[walrusbear]

Im not sure if that is true for all uni's however, im sure that Usyd is a lot bigger and thus may require it more then say UWS, CSU, UNCLE, etc

true my experience only really extends to USYD
what are other uni's unions like?

 

[Korn]

true my experience only really extends to USYD
what are other uni's unions like?

From my observations fairly shite, but being a first yearer Im not an expert, so I would say to get Cape, Jonathan A, Natstar and others opinions

 

[Xayma]

USU allows:

The existence of social clubs. People don't join clubs because they want to make friends, they join them to engage in a hobby. Having a flourishing University club scene is the central pillar to the University culture.

Pro-VSU students are voicing how apparantly ineffective the Student Union is. They're answer: abolish it.

Not a single thought on how to change the Union, not a single thought on how to make the Union more representative of their interests.

Instead of abolishing the Union and leaving the students with no voice at all-

why not try campaigning for a more effective Union?-

Did this thought not cross the minds of the pro-VSU at all? Or is it just blunt and selfish individualism that drives their allegiance?

If you noticied most Pro-VSUers suggest the union does reform for next year under VSU and offer people choice as to what services they provide.

It is the antiVSU'ers who are often 'All or Nothing' without considering what would happen if the union restructured.

The only anti VSU'er I have seen who went along that line was braindrainedAsh.

 

[withoutaface]

why not try campaigning for a more effective Union?-

Because the union would organise a massive 10000x better advertised campaign to counter it.

 

[Korn]

Pro-VSU students are voicing how apparantly ineffective the Student Union is. They're answer: abolish it.

Not a single thought on how to change the Union, not a single thought on how to make the Union more representative of their interests.

Instead of abolishing the Union and leaving the students with no voice at all-

why not try campaigning for a more effective Union?-

Well if they want to get rid of all the bullshit and only fund the essentials I might think about it, till that time I’m not going to change my mind

The existence of social clubs. People don't join clubs because they want to make friends, they join them to engage in a hobby. Having a flourishing University club scene is the central pillar to the University culture.

What ppl need university funding to do that since when do u and ur mates outside of uni get paid or subsidised to enjoy yourselves or participate in a hobby? I know I don’t and I don’t expect it either

Did this thought not cross the minds of the pro-VSU at all? Or is it just blunt and selfish individualism that drives their allegiance?

How is freedom of choice selfish? I would say that enforcing compulsory fees for services that students may never use, just so that others benefit is selfish

 

[walrusbear]

Well if they want to get rid of all the bullshit and only fund the essentials I might think about it, till that time I’m not going to change my mind


What ppl need university funding to do that since when do u and ur mates outside of uni get paid or subsidised to enjoy yourselves or participate in a hobby? I know I don’t and I don’t expect it either




How is freedom of choice selfish? I would say that enforcing compulsory fees for services that students may never use, just so that others benefit is selfish

i'm sick of this argument, it is twisted logic that reasons promoting collective benefit as selfish
it proposes that society is selfish for demanding your support

 

[Xayma]

You are one of the first anti VSU'ers I have encountered walrusbear who is not a member of 30 clubs or in any other way recieves less than average benefits from the union. Most VSU'ers are no more selfish (if not less so [they dont demand others money for their activites]) than the majority of anti VSU'ers

 

[katie_tully]

it proposes that society is selfish for demanding your support

Don't demand it then. If with VSU you need extra financial support, the least you can do is ask for voluntary monetry contributions, or fundraisers. People would be more willing to hand over a few bucks on the odd occasion if they consider it a good cause, rather than being demanded to pay a large sum of money just to keep you all happy.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

in addition to what i was saying earlier
if people do dislike USU and unions is it for the right reasons?

What kind of question is that. People dislike USU and unions because they don't like paying money for nothing. Pretty simple really.

on the surface it's about 'choice'

but really, it's an ideological attack from the government. an attempt to destroy unions, destroy students as a collective force and undermine intellectualism.

How can it be an attempt to destroy students as a collective when only 5% of students are for USU?

 

[walrusbear]

What kind of question is that. People dislike USU and unions because they don't like paying money for nothing. Pretty simple really.

that's the sort of reasons i'm against. it seems an uninformed stance.

How can it be an attempt to destroy students as a collective when only 5% of students are for USU?

?? that's pretty unsubstantiated
has anyone got any clear indication of the support for the union?? (please don't use the rally turnout as an example, it's flimsy at best)
do a majority of people really want no form of representation?

 

[walrusbear]

Don't demand it then. If with VSU you need extra financial support, the least you can do is ask for voluntary monetry contributions, or fundraisers. People would be more willing to hand over a few bucks on the odd occasion if they consider it a good cause, rather than being demanded to pay a large sum of money just to keep you all happy.

that sounds like nonsense
if you're not going to pay for the union now why would you throw money at it later randomly??